Search found 2741 matches

by kitplane01
Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Williston ND (ISN) breaks ground on new airport
Replies: 24
Views: 3105

Re: Williston ND (ISN) breaks ground on new airport

http://www.wdaz.com/news/north-dakota/4 ... on-airport


I would be curious if most airports that handle 5 flights a day normally cost $240,000,000.
-->

DakotaFlyer wrote:
The $240 million facility with have 4 gates and is scheduled to open in 2019.

http://www.wdaz.com/news/north-dakota/4 ... on-airport


I would be curious if most airports that handle 5 flights a day normally cost $240,000,000.

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lower Gross Weight Aircraft and maintanance
Replies: 1
Views: 479

Lower Gross Weight Aircraft and maintanance

Often Airbus and Boeing will make a lower gross weight, and a higher gross weight version of the same aircraft, and both versions will have the same structure. In this case, does the lighter gross weight aircraft get any maintenance "credit" (like longer intervals between maintenance check...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Crosswind landing results in almost crash
Replies: 28
Views: 10514

Re: Crosswind landing results in almost crash

jumbojet wrote:
I've seen a thousand cross wind landings but none as hair raising as that. That was pretty darn close to a complete wipe out


It was very scary looking. That caption says its a 13 kt crosswind, which is nothing. So somethings wrong.

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:37 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)
Replies: 1856
Views: 266819

Re: RE: CSeries - Flight Test And Production (Part 12)

Quoting CXH (Reply 63):In the EASA document, it refers to "Pratt & Witney Canada Corp." Only the PW1100G based engines will primarily be built in the USA. There are provisions, dependent upon much improved sales, to assemble PW1500G in Connecticut just as the LEAP has multiple assembl...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Pakistani passengers force women to change seats on domestic United Airlines flight
Replies: 93
Views: 16346

Re: Pakistani passengers force women to change seats on domestic United Airlines flight

Don't be so quick to beat up UA! They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. In America now, Islam is more protected than the basic rights of American citizens. So pick your poison. Well, that's not right. Avoiding sexism = winning Doing sexism = losing Seems pretty clear. There was a win...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:38 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Old Prop Airlines and Noise
Replies: 37
Views: 7845

Re: Old Prop Airlines and Noise

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... C36-1G.pdf
-->

How do the few piston airliners flying still pass regulations? Are they grandfathered in, or did someone test them?

Adding some data, a C-130, a DHC-8-300, and a Saab 340 are all stage III aircraft.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... C36-1G.pdf

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: What year will the 747-8 be phased out fully?
Replies: 44
Views: 8706

Re: What year will the 747-8 be phased out fully?

the ultimate question is what year will the 747-8 be fully phased out of operation? Quite honestly any answer is as good as the next because no one has a clue. At this point in the 747-8's life It's the equivalent of starting a thread with the question of "What will the weather be like in New ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Old Prop Airlines and Noise
Replies: 37
Views: 7845

Old Prop Airlines and Noise

How would old propeller airlines (DC-3, Constellation, Electra, etc. ) do with today's noise regulations? Could they be stage III, or even stage IV?

(Yes, I know they are missing a bunch of other regulations, but I'm curious about noise.)

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Pakistani passengers force women to change seats on domestic United Airlines flight
Replies: 93
Views: 16346

Re: Pakistani passengers force women to change seats on domestic United Airlines flight

We switch seats for many reasons. Parents want to sit with kids, or keep kids together. I given up an aisle seat to a man who couldn't get one but had a serious bladder issue and said he would have to go to the lav multiple times. I've been between two people who wanted to talk to each other, so I ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:34 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MadMax vs MOM: Now A Third Proposal, a simple stretch
Replies: 615
Views: 70147

Re: MadMax vs MOM: Now A Third Proposal, a simple stretch

This stretch sounds like a tail dragging fuel guzzler to me. Thrust bumps increase fuel burn and efficiency drops correspondingly, as well as hiking maintenance budgets. Can your provide a source for the premise that thrust bumps decrease SFC? I'm not saying you're wrong .. I'm hoping to learn ... ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:16 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Pakistani passengers force women to change seats on domestic United Airlines flight
Replies: 93
Views: 16346

Re: Pakistani passengers force women to change seats on domestic United Airlines flight

This: Yes, we are to be tolerant of others and do our best to accommodate. But, we should not have to tolerate the intolerance of others. It has to be a meeting in the middle, or at least acknowledgement by the party imposing their beliefs on others when there is no plausible middle ground, that th...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MadMax vs MOM: Now A Third Proposal, a simple stretch
Replies: 615
Views: 70147

Re: MadMax vs MOM: Now A Third Proposal, MaxDumbo

The financial grip on Boeing is strong because three product offerings in a row have failed financially and undermined confidence - 748, 787 and 777X. ... For now, no-one will have the balls to sign-off a major new project. They are too busy trying to work out how to financially save the 787 and 77...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: MadMax vs MOM: Now A Third Proposal, a simple stretch
Replies: 615
Views: 70147

Re: MadMax vs MOM: Now A Third Proposal, MaxDumbo

A thrust boost would help the 737-9MAX of the ground. A thrust boost on a 737-9 would increase the rudder/tail requirements for the engine out scenario. Stretching the tail away from the center of gravity makes helps meet this requirement, but without a stretch one would have to wonder if the curre...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:46 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Air Force One Range
Replies: 24
Views: 6618

Re: Air Force One Range

Obama is on the ground in Israel for a total of six hours. He is scheduled to land back in Bangor, Maine, for refueling at 6:50 p.m., and at Andrews at 9:15 p.m. Stopping in Bangor doesn't save much distance, but if you have to stop, I guess it doesn't matter. From GCMap: Tel Aviv to Bangor: 5308nm...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:45 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Air Force One Range
Replies: 24
Views: 6618

Re: Air Force One Range

Do they really publicize exactly when AF1 will be on the ground somewhere? As opposed to a general timeframe like the President is expected to arrive in Tel Aviv on Thursday or he is flying into Chicago Monday morning. Often he will be met by hundreds of reporters, and a head of state, and lots of ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:43 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Air Force One Range
Replies: 24
Views: 6618

Re: Air Force One Range

GSPSPOT wrote:
Not sure, but I'd bet it can. If not, I believe it is set up for air-to-air refuelling.


I'd be stunned if Air Force One has *ever* done air-air refueling while the president is on board.

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:15 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Air Force One Range
Replies: 24
Views: 6618

Air Force One Range

--Obama is on the ground in Israel for a total of six hours. He is scheduled to land back in Bangor, Maine, for refueling at 6:50 p.m., and at Andrews at 9:15 p.m.


Air Force One cannot fly direct from Israel to Washington DC????

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:47 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Starting Service at a new city
Replies: 13
Views: 1767

Re: Starting Service at a new city

(Sorry for the newbie question; I know airplanes not airlines) Suppose an airline wants to start once-a-day service to a new city. They don't want to hire a bunch of people to sit around when the flight is not there, they don't want to rent/buy a gate and use it only for one flight, and they don't ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Starting Service at a new city
Replies: 13
Views: 1767

Re: Starting Service at a new city

Could you specify which country, perhaps? Gates in particular tend to be in a different situation in the USA to most of the rest of the world. Outside the USA, gates are mostly common-user, and there are also remote stands with buses to the terminal, so the airport is almost always able to find som...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:03 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Real Cost Of LHR Slots
Replies: 10
Views: 5187

Re: The Real Cost Of LHR Slots

Note the bit in vv701's post about new entrants. It is very much in the interest of the airport operator and the UK government to encourage additional airlines to come to LHR. This often creates non-stop service to cities, or entire countries, where there was none before. It's unlikely that startup...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:01 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Real Cost Of LHR Slots
Replies: 10
Views: 5187

Re: The Real Cost Of LHR Slots

Heathrow Airport Holdings Ltd (HAHL) is not owned by the British government so clearly they could not sell LHR slots. ... However everything that HAHL charges the airlines requires the approval of the British government's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). ... and lots more interesting details It seem...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air Berlin restructuring announced, to wet lease aircraft to LH Group (EW), more job cuts announced
Replies: 36
Views: 9604

Re: Air Berlin restructuring announced, to wet lease aircraft to LH Group (EW), more job cuts announced

This is needed for the future of Air Berlin. By getting rid of flights in Europe as well as increasing long haul with turn the airline around. This is also a good move because while Air Berlin may compete with Lufthansa, it's better than letting EasyJet and Ryanair expand in Germany. And I thought ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Starting Service at a new city
Replies: 13
Views: 1767

Starting Service at a new city

(Sorry for the newbie question; I know airplanes not airlines) Suppose an airline wants to start once-a-day service to a new city. They don't want to hire a bunch of people to sit around when the flight is not there, they don't want to rent/buy a gate and use it only for one flight, and they don't w...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air Canada transfers Bogota service to rouge from Oct 2016
Replies: 33
Views: 6696

Re: Air Canada transfers Bogota service to rouge from Oct 2016

VCEflyboy wrote:
That's why they get away with this race to the bottom and keeping the ME3 out of the door, or even allow US airlines to operate flights to third countries.


US Airlines can carry Canadian passengers from Canadian cities to places not-in-the-US on direct flights?

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: The Real Cost Of LHR Slots
Replies: 10
Views: 5187

Re: The Real Cost Of LHR Slots

So we can deduce that 374 weekly slots, equivalent to 187 weekly slot pairs or approaching an average of 27 daily slot pairs have been awarded free of charge by the slot coordinator to operators. Note here that 50 per cent of such slot pairs must be first offered to new comers to LHR. First, awesom...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Best Large Freighter
Replies: 17
Views: 3398

Best Large Freighter

The 747-8 is clearly the best large freighter on the market Why is the 747-8 a better large freighter than the 777F? It cannot be the nose door. And what about the A330F. The 777F has 158 orders in total, with 34 outstanding. There were 13 ordered since 2013, and 52 delivered. The 747-8F has 74 ord...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:49 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: "Squashed Emirates Airline gold member sues for suffering fat man 'spillover'"
Replies: 85
Views: 14512

Re: "Squashed Emirates Airline gold member sues for suffering fat man 'spillover'"

Almost as bad as the "gold standard" example of the woman who sued McDonalds for 2 million -and won- back in the 90's for the coffee being too hot (she spilled it on herself). This is why lawyers get a bad name. Not really accurate. She was awarded $2.86 million, it was reduced down to $6...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN v. DL Dallas Love Battle Goes Back to Court
Replies: 134
Views: 19153

Re: WN v. DL Dallas Love Battle Goes Back to Court

This whole problem goes away with better laws and better contracts. The governments caused this, not airlines. I do disagree with the assessment this was caused by the government only. WARA was a result of the "Five Party Agreement" and was written the way it was based upon that agreement...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:36 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN v. DL Dallas Love Battle Goes Back to Court
Replies: 134
Views: 19153

Re: WN v. DL Dallas Love Battle Goes Back to Court

In this case, the suburban airport, DFW, has one of the largest surface areas in the world. The best market solution is to have all commercial air travel located there. Multiple airports around a single metro area should only exist in the cases where it is impossible to bring the air travel infrast...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:33 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN v. DL Dallas Love Battle Goes Back to Court
Replies: 134
Views: 19153

Re: WN v. DL Dallas Love Battle Goes Back to Court

You know well competition in a limited urban airport is tricky - be DAL, DCA or LGA. There is no way to "remove all restrictions" and let airlines play the market out. You cannot make gates where there is not physical room. Beyond that .. 1) Lease the gates to the highest bidder. 2) Let t...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:15 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Eventual 737 replacement?
Replies: 13
Views: 3877

Re: Eventual 737 replacement?

Every time I read about a 737 replacement, I'm reminded of an interview of a Boeing exec published in Aviation Week a few years ago. He basically said that absent any significant change in materials and weight (e.g. composites) or engines (such as the GTF), there aren't any game changers left to be...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience
Replies: 74
Views: 9964

Re: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience

If it wasn't for the 1500 hour requirement, pilot pay would continue to be crap because regionals would continue to pry on young and eager freshly minted commercial pilots willing to work for nothing just to fly a shiny jet! ... There is no easy solution to this problem, but I can assure you that g...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience
Replies: 74
Views: 9964

Re: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience

The question being is a pilot safer at 1500 hrs vs 250 hrs, the answer is unequivocally yes. My web searching does not find any such statistics. Can you find any? Alternatively, can you find an airline accident that would have been prevented but for the presence of the copilot with fewer than 1,500...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:16 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OPINIONS - A380 at KLM
Replies: 48
Views: 11961

Re: OPINIONS - A380 at KLM

There are two main reasons to prefer a larger aircraft over a smaller one. 1) You are slot limited 2) The larger aircraft gives you a lower cost per seat (CASM). KLM is not really slot limited, and an A380 has no cost advantage over an A350 or a 777X. Almost every airline looks at the same two facto...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:20 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience
Replies: 74
Views: 9964

Re: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience

What many of you are missing is that the 1500 hrs is not about learning to pull back or push forward during a stall recovery. The 1500 hrs is all about exposure to different real life scenarios and fostering proper decision making. You can poo-poo the ones who "waste" their time instructi...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:13 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience
Replies: 74
Views: 9964

Re: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience

They need to just allow a 250 or 500 hour minimum for copilots in EAS markets on aircraft of under 20 seats and oila the problem is fixed. It's only a matter of when then has to happen. Actually, pilots on these small aircraft have some of the hardest flying jobs. More takeoffs and landings per hou...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience
Replies: 74
Views: 9964

Re: Wall Street Journal - New Rules Would Let Airlines Hire Co-Pilots With Less Experience

They need to just allow a 250 or 500 hour minimum for copilots in EAS markets on aircraft of under 20 seats and oila the problem is fixed. It's only a matter of when then has to happen. Actually, pilots on these small aircraft have some of the hardest flying jobs. More takeoffs and landings per hou...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:15 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: DFW Tweaking Incentives to Lure More Intl Flights
Replies: 66
Views: 8512

Re: DFW revamps benefits, aims at FCO AKL JNB

Nonstop flights to Rome, Auckland and Johannesburg are on Dallas/Fort Worth Airport’s wish list. To convince airlines to launch flights from these cities, the airport is revamping an incentive program it uses to attract carriers. Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/busin ... rylink=cp...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:13 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.
Replies: 124
Views: 28896

Re: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.

I think the best path forward for SAA is to follow to the LAN model and regionalize itself into a pan-African carrier. Hook up with local investors in other African countries and open up franchises around Africa. There is no reason why their can't be an SAA-Senegal or an SAA-Ghana to feed their IAD...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:06 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.
Replies: 124
Views: 28896

Re: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.

Finally divesting Mango from Comair must take place, so Mango stands as a low-cost on its own right and provides completion in the domestic market to keep the fares at bay. Then a full merger of Comair into SA should happen with Comair ending its franchise agreement with British Airways. Your post ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.
Replies: 124
Views: 28896

Re: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.

I don't know much about SAA but it seems it would be important for the country to have a viable national carrier. I understand why they need air service, but why do they need a flag carrier? Speaking of international travel (and that's almost all the $$$), if SAA ended tomorrow the other internatio...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.
Replies: 124
Views: 28896

Re: SAA is on the verge of liquidation.

Surely SAA is prime investment opportunity for IAG. With BA flying 2-3 daily LHR-JNB and 2 Daily LHR-CPT and with BA's Franchise partner ComAir I think it would really work. The SAA problem has been zero direction. When airlines have been parking A340's for 777 and 787 SAA just solider on. With man...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:42 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Room for new engine manufacturers?
Replies: 24
Views: 2493

Re: Room for new engine manufacturers?

There are small turbine engines (business jet and turboshaft for turboprops or helicopters). Since one core easily powers both types, most engine families compete for both. I've always wondered about this. It seems that in the small engine world the same family covers a wide range of power. For exa...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:33 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Room for new engine manufacturers?
Replies: 24
Views: 2493

Re: Room for new engine manufacturers?

I personally would expect to see Honda and Silvercrest expand the ranges of business jet engines offered. If I was a business jet maker, I'd be reluctant to give business to Honda. I'd think of them as a competitor. I know GE owns a part, but the Honda part would make me avoid the engine if reasona...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:56 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737-MAX at Southwest
Replies: 9
Views: 4326

Re: 737-MAX at Southwest

As for market rates that SWAPA is looking for it is narrow body aircraft, not rates for the MAX itself. However there are more issues than pay that have to be resolved before a new contract is agreed to, these other issues include work rules and retirement. "The proposed contract would give a ...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:54 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737-MAX at Southwest
Replies: 9
Views: 4326

Re: 737-MAX at Southwest

Having a subset of aircraft was one issue the other was flying aircraft that aren't listed in the contract. Currently only the 737-300, 737-500, 737-700, and the 737-800 are the only aircraft listed in the pilot's contract. In response, WN is retiring the 737 classics prior to MAX EIS. This way, th...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737-MAX at Southwest
Replies: 9
Views: 4326

737-MAX at Southwest

If there is a cliffhanger with the Max program , it involves the launch customer Southwest. Will the WN pilots approve a new contract to cover the new birds coming on property by next summer? That's completely up to WN Management. If they agree to a market rate contract within the next few months t...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Predictions 15 Years On
Replies: 47
Views: 8267

Re: Predictions 15 Years On

14. Business jet travel will have eliminated first class at all but a handful of airlines. Oh wait.... Seriously, the Global 7K (and other future Bombardier jets), Falcon 9X (not-yet announced) and 5X, Gulfstream's 3rd "P42" airframe (smalled, G450 replacement) and G650 upgrade (or replac...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Predictions 15 Years On
Replies: 47
Views: 8267

Re: Predictions 15 Years On

The emergence of another "up and coming" U.S. carrier with a strong regional presence and a national reach to major markets from wherever it may be based ... a la Alaska, jetBlue, etc, something along those lines Jeez. When was the last successful up-and-coming airline that succeeded? Vir...

Jump to post
by kitplane01
Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:55 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Predictions 15 Years On
Replies: 47
Views: 8267

Re: Predictions 15 Years On

This will be fun. 15 years from now we will see: Alliance carriers will create global airlines named for their brands (Skyteam Airlines, Oneworld Air, etc). That's an interesting idea. Alliances have been around a while and no one has tried that yet. It would be very tough for an airline to give up...

Jump to post