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by iamlucky13
Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Production/Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 362
Views: 152961

Re: Boeing 737MAX Production/Delivery Thread - 2022

Anybody heard or read anything substantive, regarding the likely timing of a rate increase? The most recent info I've read on the subject was regarding the harvesting of engines from the finished aircraft inventory, which leads me to believe that Boeing doesn't expect the supply issues to resolve q...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:23 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: COMAC C919 Development and Production Thread - 2022
Replies: 121
Views: 28235

Re: COMAC C919 Production and Testing Thread - 2022

On a side note, the C919 has a great cross section for cargo. That said, I do not know the details and what is the limit of validity? We had a thread where horizontal stabilizer cracks were brought up, so I am wondering on the LOV for the C919: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143892...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:04 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Mutiny Bay (near Seattle) DHC-3 Otter crash
Replies: 52
Views: 14024

Re: Mutiny Bay (near Seattle) DHC-3 Otter crash

Update on the presumed wreckage - a University of Washington vessel was able to produce a 3D sonar image that shows the target is the right dimensions to be the aircraft. The recovery effort is being planned: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/floatplane-wreckage-located-in-mutiny-bay/ A “lar...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:07 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boom Supersonic new configuration.
Replies: 349
Views: 72316

Re: Boom Supersonic new configuration.

Lookin at the Boom website is interesting... https://boomsupersonic.com/overture 600+ profitable routes? The only potential things I can see are TATL routes. With the 4250nm published range, there aren't many options out of LAX/SFO. .... Anyone know what "600" other routes they have in mi...

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by iamlucky13
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:51 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Mutiny Bay (near Seattle) DHC-3 Otter crash
Replies: 52
Views: 14024

Re: Mutiny Bay (near Seattle) DHC-3 Otter crash

Searchers have identified a target of interest during sonar scans looking for the wreckage. They will be sending ROV's down to determine if it is wreckage from the crash, although a time frame has not been given yet for how soon that could occur: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/whidbey-pla...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boom Supersonic new configuration.
Replies: 349
Views: 72316

Re: Boom Supersonic new configuration.

...legacy business model..." Let me translate that: We are a cool start up that don't need to uphold to realities provided by partners who are the experts and can VC our way to a solution... I would translate it a little more generously as: Boom doesn't have the capital to fund engine developm...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Mutiny Bay (near Seattle) DHC-3 Otter crash
Replies: 52
Views: 14024

Re: Mutiny Bay (near Seattle) DHC-3 Otter crash

Below is a summary of the data that Flightradar24 posted. I'm giving speed in mph, because the weather data and DHC-3 manual use mph. I used the link above to Dr. Cliff Mass' website for weather data. Note that the altitude data has a precision of 100 feet, so it appears to change in steps in Flight...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:12 am
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 1390
Views: 238484

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

The potential consequences are non-trivial, and there might not be a net benefit to Russia's operational safety. That sir, is the understatement of the century! :D I meant that in terms of a very restrained US response, which I think would be the likely response given the posture so far. But yes, t...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:16 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 1390
Views: 238484

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Military Aviation News and Discussion Thread

Thanks for your replies. I thought that an aircraft that gathers valuable SIGINT is not, exactly, "peaceful". Russia knows that this thingy is helping the Ukrainians in the turret-tossing business. It may not be neutral, but it also is not belligerent, in terms of how the Hague Convention...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France warned by the BEA for "Repeated Deliberate Safety Deviations"
Replies: 32
Views: 9273

Re: Air France warned by the BEA for "Repeated Deliberate Safety Deviations"

As a pilot, I understand the angst of shutting down an engine that appears to be functioning well. But, as I am continually reminded, the engineers in Toulouse (or Seattle) are a hell of a lot smarter than me. The report references the cockpit voice recorder to discuss their reasoning. Hesitance to...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Air France warned by the BEA for "Repeated Deliberate Safety Deviations"
Replies: 32
Views: 9273

Re: Air France warned by the BEA for "Repeated Deliberate Safety Deviations"

Those concerned about the captain's rest period, please follow the link to the report in the first post and at least look for discussion of this matter. Notice that the investigators did not find any concerns with the fact that a rest period was taken, even with the initial suspicion of a fuel leak....

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by iamlucky13
Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:12 pm
Forum: Military Aviation & Space Flight
Topic: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022
Replies: 449
Views: 69862

Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

It definitely seems to be about as routine as planes flying these days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M018DAaNd_E Another successful Starlink launch and 1st stage recovery. They've reached a level of routine that seems like a major step change in the space launch business, but we're still talking...

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by iamlucky13
Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US Airline Stock Buybacks
Replies: 39
Views: 4099

Re: US Airline Stock Buybacks

As a shareholder, I support dividends and buybacks. I take a risk and invest in a company, and appreciate something in return from them, airline or not. With buybacks, the return isn't obvious, though. All the big US companies (not just airlines) were doing buybacks before COVID. If you didn't sell...

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by iamlucky13
Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:37 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US Airline Stock Buybacks
Replies: 39
Views: 4099

Re: US Airline Stock Buybacks

Buy backs are a better longer term investment than dividends. No actually not. https://www.sandstoneam.com/insight/buybacks-and-insider-selling That article is not about the wisdom of dividends vs. buybacks. It's about the wisdom of buybacks vs large amounts of debt. Taking on debt to fund buybacks...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: US Airline Stock Buybacks
Replies: 39
Views: 4099

Re: US Airline Stock Buybacks

Why? If I have invested in a company and it is more tax efficient to increase my net wealth by owning more of a company rather than paying punitive tax on a dividend and in some regions the tax on share dividends would make you cry they are so high why not take a share buyback. Preventing a company...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Object apparently fell from an aircraft over Maine capital Monday
Replies: 35
Views: 7724

Re: Object apparently fell from an aircraft over Maine capital Monday

AAlaxfan wrote:
Looks like it came off a 03-K64-Firefly Mid-bulk transport (Class B).


"You told me those entry couplings would hold for another week!"

"That was six months ago, Cap'n."

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by iamlucky13
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:46 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft
Replies: 146
Views: 19718

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

My hunch is that if Boom can build and fly their demonstrator, they will be bought out by a bigger manufacturer to carry the project to completion. Somebody on Twitter made a similar point - Boom needs at least $8B in capital if it is going to be taken seriously, but then again, the CSeries/A220 wa...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft
Replies: 146
Views: 19718

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

They don't need 20 of them for those routes, so they must have other routes in mind. Because they Can fly Mach+? It doesn't mean they have to fly Mach+. if they flew .98M they would still be faster than most ANY other jet transcon. Except transonic speeds are ultra inefficient. The transonic transi...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft
Replies: 146
Views: 19718

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

This plane needs a stop to Tokyo or Sydney, so what is the point of the Supersonic plane when its one-stop vs. nonstop. Can't even do DFW to LHR, the flagship route to LHR. Could do Miami to Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires but is there a market there for such a flight. Sure its going to do man...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:08 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Object apparently fell from an aircraft over Maine capital Monday
Replies: 35
Views: 7724

Re: Object apparently fell from an aircraft over Maine capital Monday

Looking at the picture, it doesn't look like anything that could just magically fall off a plane that's been cruising for hours already. Maybe something with the gear down, or something that had an uncontained engine failure, but there are no reports of anything like that. Planes don't just shed pa...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:02 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft
Replies: 146
Views: 19718

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

You're now talking about 2.5 hours savings on LAX-NRT and if I have the kind of money to burn on a Boom ride, it probably just makes more sense to fly in a premium class on NH or JL subsonic. For LAX-SYD, let's say 5.5 hours savings once we take the acceleration/deceleration into account. That's de...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft
Replies: 146
Views: 19718

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

AA really does not have the cash to be throwing away on non refundable deposits. We don't know how big the deposit was, but I am a bit surprised that Boom finds themselves in a position to make such a demand. If I were an airline CEO, and especially having seen how even experienced OEMs like A and ...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft
Replies: 146
Views: 19718

Re: American Airlines orders Boom Overture aircraft

This plane needs a stop to Tokyo or Sydney, so what is the point of the Supersonic plane when its one-stop vs. nonstop. Can't even do DFW to LHR, the flagship route to LHR. Could do Miami to Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires but is there a market there for such a flight. Sure its going to do man...

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by iamlucky13
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:19 pm
Forum: Aviation Hobby
Topic: Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Museum
Replies: 12
Views: 5881

Re: Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Museum

Is there any list what the current inherited collection finally consists of? They still have a list on their website, but based on the Archive.org cache of the page from before they closed, it does not appear any updates have been made. https://flyingheritage.org/Explore/The-Collection.aspx# Here's...

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by iamlucky13
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:50 am
Forum: Aviation Hobby
Topic: Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Museum
Replies: 12
Views: 5881

Re: Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Museum

Update, and good news! The Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum will be re-opening within the next year. https://flyingheritage.org/press_releases/FHCAM_WHM_Release_Final_080222.pdf https://www.heraldnet.com/business/flying-heritage-museum-to-reopen-with-new-owner-at-paine-field/ It was previousl...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022
Replies: 453
Views: 120589

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

https://youtu.be/eRT_cyWDP74
https://youtu.be/n6JqlWC5wb4


Impressively steady shooting. That was very nice to watch.
-->

ikolkyo wrote:
Great video of the 777X arriving at FIA and some airshow footage, good looking bird
https://youtu.be/eRT_cyWDP74
https://youtu.be/n6JqlWC5wb4


Impressively steady shooting. That was very nice to watch.

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by iamlucky13
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787
Replies: 111
Views: 29669

Re: FAA approves resumption of deliveries for Boeing 787

Lets assume 50 and $100mil free cashflow of each for ease of calculus. This would to a total $5b free cashflow without the Max. Q3, Q4 & Q1 should show above average/skewed numbers as they are cleaning out inventory… I don't know the value, but expecting Boeing to clear $100 million for each of...

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by iamlucky13
Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:29 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737 NO FLAP landing @ SEA
Replies: 36
Views: 9993

Re: 737 NO FLAP landing @ SEA

Are there published takeoff / landing runway length requirements for this scenario, or is it factored into the margins for the normal runway length and overrun area requirements? Looking at the airport planning manual, I only see requirements for with flaps, but I assume no flaps was considered in ...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:07 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737 NO FLAP landing @ SEA
Replies: 36
Views: 9993

Re: 737 NO FLAP landing @ SEA

Are there published takeoff / landing runway length requirements for this scenario, or is it factored into the margins for the normal runway length and overrun area requirements? Looking at the airport planning manual, I only see requirements for with flaps, but I assume no flaps was considered in t...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 613
Views: 202457

Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022

...Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August... Changing the occasional cockpit windshield assy due to distortion or imperfection isn't unheard of on new aircraft, but ...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 613
Views: 202457

Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022

Let's see if that works out. Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the parts available, so they are pushing the deliveries currently deep into August. Maybe the use the first ones for AA. I haven't seen any updates published recently. Can you shar...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022
Replies: 613
Views: 202457

Re: Boeing 787 Production/Delivery Thread - 2022

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/07/paine-field-july-12.html 787 deliveries to kick of July 30th with American Airlines, quickly followed by August 1st with a second American Let's see if that works out. Boeing just discovered that they have to change all cockpit windows and simply don't have the part...

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by iamlucky13
Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated #2: DL ordered 100 737 MAX 10 + 30 options
Replies: 321
Views: 90645

Re: Rumor: Delta 100 737 MAX 10 Deal At Farnborough

Not getting an exemption incrementally increases the incentives to launch a new aircraft sooner rather than later. So was that the intent of the regulation, being prodded by outside influencers with the thought that it would save US engineering expertise and restore faith etc etc etc? Politicians a...

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by iamlucky13
Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737 MAX 10 Development / Testing / Production Thread - 2022
Replies: 807
Views: 203661

Re: Boeing 737 MAX 10 Development / Testing / Production Thread - 2022

The end of the year 2022 date was set by a political institution. Not the manufacturer or regulator. As the process to certify the 737-10 has been underway, the arbitrary date, set by the political body looks to be passed. That date, doesn't change the aircraft's safety capabilities. Lets cut to th...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Updated #2: DL ordered 100 737 MAX 10 + 30 options
Replies: 321
Views: 90645

Re: Rumor: Delta 100 737 MAX 10 Deal At Farnborough

It's just political posturing to pressure Congress to grant an exemption. I think it's truthful, as Stitch explained in the other thread in this topic. There is no upside for Boeing, since the requirement is political rather than technical. The FAA has already approved the waiver for the MAX, and n...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:39 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 737MAX Ongoing Issues
Replies: 95
Views: 20566

Re: Boeing 737MAX Ongoing Issues

Out of curiosity, I tried to find the fuel leak report. I don't think I can link directly to it, but it can be found by searching for "CALA2021083001452" in the field "Operator Control #" here: https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx FUEL LEAKING INTO OVER- HEAD BIN AT ROW 30R AD...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Confirmed: RED Air MD-80 accident in MIA
Replies: 119
Views: 49501

Re: Confirmed: RED Air accident in MIA

The luggage issue is a vexing one. But who in their right minds is going to prosecute survivors of an aircraft crash. I doubt it doing anything to prosecute those folks is going to matter. Because no one will go after survivors of a crash. On the subject of MIA, interesting how 12/30 is also disabl...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:26 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Confirmed: RED Air MD-80 accident in MIA
Replies: 119
Views: 49501

Re: RED Air crash in MIA?

Video from the ramp of the end of the crash and evacuation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ibs7nJU80M I’ve watched this video several times. 1 minute 45 seconds before the L1 door was opened and the slide was activated. This seems like WAY TOO MUCH TIME was wasted to get the passengers seated in ...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Leeham news article on possible successor to 767F
Replies: 56
Views: 8627

Re: Leeham news article on possible successor to 767F

The 767-300F has sold 270 copies in 27 years. The 767-300 converted freighter business has more than 100 orders... I didnt include the scant number of 767-2C that were produced. Boeing's orders report returns: ⋅  271 x 767-300F, of which 209 have been delivered ⋅  102 x 767-2C, ...

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by iamlucky13
Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:27 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Leeham news article on possible successor to 767F
Replies: 56
Views: 8627

Re: Leeham news article on possible successor to 767F

The 767-300F has sold 270 copies in 27 years. The 767-300 converted freighter business has more than 100 orders... I didnt include the scant number of 767-2C that were produced. Boeing's orders report returns: ⋅  271 x 767-300F, of which 209 have been delivered ⋅  102 x 767-2C, ...

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by iamlucky13
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AirInsight : Boeing’s pre-Farnborough market review June 2022
Replies: 56
Views: 12356

Re: AirInsight : Boeing’s pre-Farnborough market review June 2022

You really do hope this is just their (very poor) external PR view. If this is truly the internal Boeing view it points that they are still stuywith their heads in the sand. He's the vice president for marketing. It's his job to sell the product, not set the strategy. The fact is Boeing isn't going...

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by iamlucky13
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:48 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing manning up to Launch new aircraft? Leeham thinks so.
Replies: 268
Views: 52355

Re: Boeing manning up to Launch new aircraft? Leeham thinks so.

Isn't it possible that the hiring is to have enough people to get the current issues cleared sometime in the foreseeable future? Somehow they haven't managed to get the MAX 7 certified yet and it's a simple shrink of the MAX 8. Yes it's possible. The BCA work includes 737 MAX 7 and MAX 10, the 777-...

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by iamlucky13
Wed May 18, 2022 3:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China
Replies: 1279
Views: 514767

Re: China Eastern 737-800 crashes in Guangxi, southern China

There's a difference between a depressed person who ends his life and a mass murderer. Not really. People taking their own life in this way and those suffering from illnesses like depression are thinking and acting irrationally. If this is true it's yet another piece of evidence we, as humans in ge...

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by iamlucky13
Wed May 11, 2022 10:18 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022
Replies: 453
Views: 120589

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

Every aircraft has to meet the rules for a TC. When a new aircraft is launched at some point in time the manufacturer will apply to the FAA, EASA etc that it wants to design, build etc a new aircraft. From this point in time the rules for certification are taken and frozen for 5 years. If any new r...

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by iamlucky13
Tue May 10, 2022 10:56 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: 737 MAX 10 Uncertainty Potentially holding up 16 billion dollars worth of Sales
Replies: 170
Views: 35577

Re: 737 MAX 10 Uncertainty Potentially holding up 16 billion dollars worth of Sales

Like we all know, Boeing says they’re confident that congress will extend the deadline, when are they taking it to congress? Actually, I didn't know if they were confident, so I went ahead and looked up the transcript from the last quarterly earnings call (April 27), on the expectation it was discu...

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by iamlucky13
Mon May 09, 2022 7:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AerCap CEO says “Boeing will Bounce Back”
Replies: 48
Views: 6517

Re: AerCap CEO says “Boeing will Bounce Back”

Boeing's market share has eroded vs. Airbus. They should make changes aside from waiting for the FAA's grandfathering permits. Has there been any clear signal that they are aware of a massive turn being needed? I don't remember. Forcing out the previous CEO, stopping the public call outs of the FAA...

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by iamlucky13
Fri May 06, 2022 7:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avolon CEO says Boeing has "lost its way"
Replies: 90
Views: 16559

Re: Avolon CEO says Boeing has "lost its way"

For what it's worth, from my armchair, I agree with him. And moving the bigwigs to Washington, DC is NOT the right direction; it implies that Boeing plans to base their future on being a politically influential entity, rather than a leader in engineering or product relevance. The corporate headquar...

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by iamlucky13
Wed May 04, 2022 12:31 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeings 1Q22 Earnings
Replies: 146
Views: 17578

Re: Boeings 1Q22 Earnings

On the MAX-10, I think Congress will grant an extension if needed, since the only reason not to would be to punish Boeing. That was not the original intention, so I think they will hold to that. But we'll have to see. The reason not to would be to comply with the law, and which Congress themselves ...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022
Replies: 453
Views: 120589

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

As I pointed out last month, producing over 25 copies of the 779, with zero ability to deliver them until, now, 2025, was an enormous mistake. The carrying/storage/possible future modification of that inventory (to an eventual type cert. standard) is a ludicrous investment for Boeing at a time they...

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by iamlucky13
Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022
Replies: 453
Views: 120589

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2022

The regulations are the same, but the requirements to demonstrate compliance are much stricter, as both Calhoun and West acknowledged in the media call. It's a new paradigm and they are learning and adjusting as they go. That's going to be true now for every aircraft certification program, they are...

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