Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
zak
Topic Author
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:04 pm

i do not have an english language link as of now, but german spiegel reports it here:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,281666,00.html
10=2
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:36 pm

Here's the article quoted in the Spiegel text:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1121641,00.html
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14118
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:49 am



A contract written with golden characters... just like USAF's Boeings KC767
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
zak
Topic Author
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:18 am

@racko
thanks i forgot to check the guardian.
after all the guardian and der spiegel feature most of each other stories all the time. they seem to be highly interlinked papers, and also seem to be using a similar IT system(look at the urls)
10=2
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:43 am

What happened to all those ex-BA 767's that where supposed to be converted?


Has the RAF every bought a new tanker from a manufacturer?

The VC-10's, Vulcans, and Tri-stars are all conversions.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4799
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:46 am

I don't remember Vulcan tankers. They used Victors till recently. Were there Valiant tankers as well?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
CX747
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:34 am

So, they throw their hands in the air and cry like babies when the U.S. prefers a homegrown supplier but then do the same thing? It will be interesting to see how this all works out.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:23 pm

Opps, my bad.

Ment Victors.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
voodoo
Posts: 1984
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:16 pm

Yeah there were some converted Vulcan `tankers' (`K2's) as well... or at least they had a deployable drogue receptacle for `buddy' refueling.

[Edited 2004-01-14 11:22:25]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:18 am

CX747,

They didn't "cry like babies" and Boeing teamed up with BAE. The decision against Boeing was, at the same time, a decision against a deal british BAE favored.
I support the right to arm bears
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:54 am

I hope there is room at Brize-Norton for these huge planes. That plane is way too big for a tanker. I think the A310 would be the right size for a tanker/transport.
 
cfbgoosebay
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:17 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:39 am

i think its about time the raf invest in new tankers it's time to retire the vc-10's and tristar some of those are very old.
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:21 pm

So, they throw their hands in the air and cry like babies when the U.S. prefers a homegrown supplier but then do the same thing? It will be interesting to see how this all works out.

In this case, the MOD didn't invite bids from both in a pretence of competition, then pass confidential details of the Bad bidder to the Good bidder, to ensure that the Good bidder won the contract regardless of what their original proposal was.

Also - As far as I know - the MOD specified requirements based on what it actually needed, rather than tweaking requirements to match the preferred supplier's product.

When is delivery due?
Cunning linguist
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:57 pm

You must also remember that the FSTA programme is not just about the aircraft. It is also about providing a service for 25 years.

An interesting ad was shown by Air Tanker stating that 20 years down the line, the A330s would still be younger than the B767s that are being proposed by BAES / Boeing today.

First Aircraft is due in service in the beginning of 2008 and all aircraft delivered by the beginning of 2012.
 
voodoo
Posts: 1984
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:26 am

If wonder if, since the proposal/competition started, the transport element has come a little further to the fore. I take it these 330s are -200s? Just wondering about the capacity and weight uplift differences between transport 767-300 and 330-200. What I am getting at is if it saves the RAF a C-17/A400 purchase or two or (mor elikely) so many annual hours worth of IL-76 charter given the same numbers of aircraft (763/332).
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Danny
Posts: 3752
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:52 am

I am sure that is another European anti-Boeing conspiracy Big grin
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:51 am

Firstly this order is not confirmed.

However, yeah we never buy American, all those Chinooks, Apaches, C-130s, C-17s F-35s to come, etc, must be illusions.
These tankers will also replace Tristars, after the VC-10s, RAF will want plenty of cargo capacity, so the A330 will not be too big for the RAF.
Brize will have room once the VC-10s and later Tristars go.
I think the RAF should get new aircraft if they are to operated for 25+ years, some BA 767s have been sitting around outside since just after Sept 11th.

With the greatly increased requirements for tankers in the wake of the Falklands war, some Vulcans were given a tanker modification, under the tailcone for a one point tanker.
When the converted VC-10s arrived in 1984, they were retired, as the bombers had been 18 months previously.
 
concordeboac
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:04 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:14 am

Anti-Boeing? Where is the UK again, oh yea its in Europe. How about pro-itself, Airbus is part British and they have every right to support their own economy, just as the US will go Boeing with theirs, the UK should go Airbus. Thats not anti-anybody, just pro-Europe, pro-UK. I would hope they will have Rolls-Royce engines too.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:13 pm

I have to ask again?

What happend to those BA conversions that where supposed to happen.

I thought those where a done deal  Confused
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:17 pm

It was never a done deal, the competition winner has not been announced.
(Painting 'FSTA' -the name of this competition, on a semi-redundant BA 767, as happened last year, did not mean they had won).
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:46 am

The A330's will have RR engines. Probably because RR is a 1/4 shareholder in the Air Tanker consortium  Big grin

http://www.airtanker.co.uk/
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4799
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:58 am

Will these A330s get side cargo doors? And could we see the launch of a freighter conversion program now?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:46 pm

There are no plans at present for a freighter version. Besides they hold a fair bit in the existing cargo bays. Also with the A330 there is no need for additional tanks to be fitted for the AAR role, so no load space is compromised.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:03 am

Meaning that they would not have additional fuel tanks in the cargo bay?

Granted, the KC-10 is much less efficient than the A330, but I believe it can't store any cargo under the main deck since it's taken up by fuel tanks. I'm not sure about what the RAF's current L-1011s are like in that regard.

Right?
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:22 am

6 of the 8 RAF L1011s are I think pax/cargo, as well as tankers, the two that are not are the ex Pan-Am ones, I think they are just general transport, no refueling kit.
(The 6 others with freight door are ex BA, this as well as the tanker mods being done by Marshalls of Cambridge).
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:54 pm

I don't think the RAF has confirmed the order just yet. There may be political pressure that will eventually lead to the RAF buying ex-BA 767-300(ER)'s and converting them to tankers, while BA buys the Boeing 7E7 airliner to replace the 763ER's.

After all, Airbus has yet to actually build a tanker based on the A330-200 design....
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:00 pm

Boeing has yet to build a 767 tanker to RAF specs, including no refueling boom, probe rather than receptacle for receiving fuel.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:05 am

GDB,

Isn't Boeing building a 767-200(ER) based tanker for the Italian Air Force that has two drogue-and-probe refuelling systems on the wings?

I still think in the end the best deal is for the RAF to buy ex-BA 767-300(ER)'s and convert them to tankers with the refuelling systems similar to the Italian Air Force planes. The cost will probably be cheaper than the RAF buying new-build A330-200's converted to tankers.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6078
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:16 am

Boeing is building 767 Tankers for the Italian Air Force. One of the deciding factors was that the A330's footprint was to big for Italian Air Force bases.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:34 am

RayChuang,

Converting second hand 767s may seem cheaper but you have to look at the overall picture. The ex BA 767s are 20+ years old and knackered, that's why BA don't want them. They have to last another 25 years and there is no way that they will manage that. The RAF VC10s are all about 35 - 40 years old. They are built like brick shithouses yet they have had the keelskins replaced, the rear freight bay area strenghtened, been rewired, upgraded and a host of other things done to them. They cost the RAF a fortune to keep running and all these things are likely to be required on the used 767s. It is reasonable to expect a relatively trouble free 25 year life with new A330s, one of the reasons that it is the prefered choice by the RAF.
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:37 pm

Well the oldest BA 767 was delivered in 1989, and they've been well maintained, (though I'd be concerned about the few that have been parked since 2001), but Saintsman is right about the best solution being new A330s.
The RAF does a lot more extended deployments than the Italian AF does, they also need to replace the Tristars.
As stated, the VC-10s are expensive to operate, wonderful aircraft it may be (and a new VC-10 support contract has been signed to take them to retirement in 2008/9).
 
Ant72LBA
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:42 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:45 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3429111.stm

Looks like the order has indeed gone to the Airbus consortium.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:31 am

There is a misconception that it is an Airbus consortium. The award has gone to Air Tanker which is made up of four companies (used to be five) who all have an equal share. Whist all of the companies are not the same size they each bring something big to the party and all are necessary for the project to be a success. Granted though, Airbus are likely to be the big winners out of it.

 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14118
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:37 am

Well, I think it is healthy for Boeing to have some competition in the tanker market they ""owned" for decades.

It a far more powerfull aircraft then the 767 in term of range, refueling capasity and cargo/staff transport. If Airbus was an American Company the USAF would probably have bought it to.

Good for the RAF & Nato ..

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14118
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:15 am

Range has always been a strongpoint of the A330-200 ; with max passengers and reserves at 230t MTOW 11,850km (6400nm), at 217t MTOW 8890km (4800nm).

In a troop transport / cargo lay-out the range could be extreme with all this extra fuel tanks below the deck ..

Can these tanks be used to fuel the aircraft it-self ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Bogi
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:00 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:26 am

Keesje Check http://www.airtanker.co.uk/ and you will see that the A330 Tanker will not use Extra Fule Tanks it will have Full Pax/Cargo layout during a Tank Misson.

Maybe one of the A330 will be the new British "Royal Airforce One" so they dont need to use a BA B777 anymore

Freundliche Grüße / Best Regards / Atentos saludos / Meilleures salutations

Michael Bogensperger
==================================================
Put your Side on theAir
Http://www.AirlinerPictures.Net


[Edited 2004-01-27 01:29:08]
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8138
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:13 pm

I have to wonder given that this is the first order for an A330-200 modified into a freighter/air-refuelling tanker, will the RAF end up working out the bugs of this plane. This could end up proving to be a pretty expensive proposition.

The big question now is will the French and German air forces also order this plane with Trent 772 engines? The Armée de l'Air has frequent deployments to the former French African colonies and could use maybe as many as 15 of these planes. My guess is that in the end, Airbus will build about 60 of these tankers, with 20 going to the RAF, 25 to Armée de l'Air, and 15 to the Luftwaffe.
 
zak
Topic Author
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:41 pm

i see about 25 to the luftwaffe aswell. after all the luftwaffe has to support the massive amount of german "peacekeeping" around the world along with the a400m. there is of course the budget question, but looking at the a400m, ef2000 and overseas troop deployment, i would guess the luftwaffe might require more then the RAF
10=2
 
BA777
Posts: 2051
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 11:40 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:09 pm

Nice to see a bit of change, the VC10s dont half get a bit noisy around here, albeit nice...but not @ 5am!

I think they've gone with new A330s because like the contract "says", they want them to last for about 30 years. My work experience in July should be great if i go to the RAF Big grin, on the VC10 and L1011 line.

Henry
 
Bogi
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:00 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:34 pm

There will no A330 Tanker for the German Luftwaffe !!!

Not in the next 10-15 years, the German Luftwaffe just get there first MRTT a modified A310 and they will get 3 more in the next Years. But thats all they will get maybe in the Future there will be a Nato Tanker Unite were the German Luftwaffe will participate like the Awacs Unite Based in Geilenkirchen, buti dout that there will be any Singel Order from germany for the A330 Tanker.

I doubt that there will any big Bugs in the A330 Tanker the refuel System will almost be the same as the one the MRTT use and Airbus can use there experience of the A300/310 Freighter, the question is will the A330 Tanker have a Side Cargo Door for the Uper Deck if yes it would be A A332 F that Airbus also could offer to commercial Users


MRTT link http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mrtt/

Freundliche Grüße / Best Regards / Atentos saludos / Meilleures salutations

Michael Bogensperger
==================================================
Put your Side on theAir
Http://www.AirlinerPictures.Net


[Edited 2004-01-27 09:57:29]
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14118
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:14 pm

The considerable commercial demand for the A330-200 makes it more attractive to third-parties who will operate those aircraft in the fleet not immediately required for RAF use.

This will deliver a major cost saving to the MoD and taxpayer and ensures that the considerable capability advantages of the A330-200 are affordable.

Transfer between the civil and military registers will be effected swiftly and efficiently at Brize Norton.

(link above)

They will be used commercially to !
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
F4N
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:37 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:44 am

To all:

I find the notion of military a/c being "leased out" to commercial firms when not in use to be odd at best. Imagine the USAF turning over a C17 or 2 to
FedEx or UPS to make a few bucks on the side.

Anyways, I am not at all surprised at the 330 being selected given that the potential for new jobs at Airbus or RR creates a much better political picture than whatever employment could have been created by BAE for conversions.
Given that either a/c would work for the RAF, what else would a gov't look at?
There is also the much rumored order for additional C17's by the RAF. Given the clever British practice of playing both sides of the fence, the A330 order would be necessary to maintain a balance.

Good for the RAF...new planes!

F4N
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:56 am

The RAF love their C17s, but the A400m (whenever it is actually built!) does appear to be a better fit for their needs.

Similarly with the A330. The B767 would be a great fit for many countries (Italy, Japan, ...), but in this case I do think the RAF need a little more offload, at a little longer range. Remember the "vulcan raid"?
Cunning linguist
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:51 pm

Rumour has it that even if the RAF buys A400M's, the C-17s will eventually be brought outright, as well as maybe some more aircraft being added to the fleet, the A400M's replacing the remaining C-130K's (UK spec C-130H delivered in the late 1960's, or as the crews call them, 'The Antiques Roadshow!)
 
PH-BFA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 6:22 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:19 pm

So how many tankers are the RAF getting? If they spend almost 20 billion I would guess at least 80 or so?

PH-BFA
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 4123
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:10 pm

What type of air-refueling will the JSF F35 sport? I would expect that most versions will receive the USAF flying-boom system. Will the UK versions use the hose-basket type, or will the new tanker be modified to have a boom?

PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
LMP737
Posts: 6078
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:16 am

My guess would be that USAF JSF's will use the boom system. While the JSF's for the USN/USMC and RAF/RN will use the hose-and-drouge system.

One has to wonder what the other customers of the JSF will use for air refueling.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
GDB
Posts: 13834
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Tankers

Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:28 am

As the RAF/RN are getting the same STOVL version of the JSF, the F-35B, it will have the same refueling system as the USMC F-35Bs.
In the Afghan strikes, RAF VC-10s provided some 75% of the fuel to USN/USMC aircraft during AAR operations, and a good proportion in the Iraq campaign too.

Though only 16 (for now) tankers are being acquired, the contract is for the whole of the 27 year support and infrastructure.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5287
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: RAF Orders Airbus 330 Tankers Worth 18.8bn?

Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:16 am

I think the decision for the RAF to go for Airbus Tankers will end up being better investment because of the age of the A330's versus the age of the 767-300's. It the same analogy in buying cars...a 2004 vehicle or a 1990 used vehicle. I would definitely buy the newer vehicle...especially if the price is comparable.

If Boeing's Tanker Team were to offer new 767-200ER's or 767-300ER's, then I think things would be a little bit different.

Time will tell how the A330's will work as Tankers.

Both the Italian and Japanese tankers will have the wing pods.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747classic, GDB and 9 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos