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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am

Sovietjet:

Yes, that is why air forces employing Soviet tactics have been on the losing side of all of the major air battles since World War II. Except those employing Soviet tactics on both sides. (Eritrea/Ethiopia, etc...)
 
USAFMXOfficer
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:05 am

OK....I can stand it no longer. You are all talking about my PROFESSION so I have to get involved. I am a USAF officer and have been serving for 18 years.

The reason why the USAF is the greatest Air Force on the planet is very simple...its not TECHNOLOGY, or FUNDING, ..... it is.....

THE ENLISTED FORCE!!!

Air Force enlisted personnel (junior NCOs and airmen) are the best in the world, hands down. In aircraft maintenance, I have witnessed many visits by foreign aircraft maintainers to US Air Force bases who are interested in how the USAF does aircraft maintenance. The one thing they come away with, across the board, is the QUALITY and RESPONSIBILITY of our junior enlisted personnel.
 
Vimanav
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:47 am

While fully accepting that the USAF is technologically way ahead of the rest of the world, the US - like in most other things that they are involved in - are coming to a stage where they are barking up the wrong trees almost everywhere.

I mean you have this massive air force and weapons that can pulverize any nation in nano-seconds and yet they are whipping your hide in Iraq. I agree those bastards are terrorists and should be neutralized, but do you see the political mileage they gain at your expense? Your hundreds of dead counts for nuts to the rest of the world, but one Iraqi you shoot, and your own newsmen make it the most newsworthy, cruel and dastardly act in the annals of recent conflict. Nuts

In my opinion, the nature of conflict has changed for ever. We all know and understand that weapons of mass destruction will also mean mutually assured destruction irrespective of who the contestants are. Hence you have a new enemy.. the terrorist (who of course you address with the more politically correct term 'insurgents', 'freedom fighters' and such other nonsense). This one cannot be weeded out with F-16s or B-2s but by radically changing your approach to battle strategy. The weakness of the US ground forces against street level fighting and unfamiliar terrain has time and again been direly exposed.

And its highly unlikely the US is going to learn much out of these as long as the keep re-electing duds to the White House.

rgds//Vimanav
 
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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:05 am

Vimanav:

I'm not going to respond to your cheap baiting attempt.
 
Vimanav
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:22 am

I'm not going to respond to your cheap baiting attempt.

Dear N328KF

Please do understand that others can have their own opinions which may differ from yours. It does not necessarily have to be a baiting attempt.

And let me tell you a little story about this American lady I met on a flight on 26SEP04. There was this fine dignified lady in her late sixties (wife of an ex US Diplomat as I later discovered) sitting in Business Class and travelling to Ahmedabad from Delhi on Jet Airways. We got talking and guess what she told me she was here for (with a group of other Americans)?

To pray at a monastery up in the hills somewhere in Central India that her country may not relect George Bush!!!

I prayed with her too...

rgds//Vimanav
 
mapguy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:48 am

>>"The Germans also were unbeatable in 1940"<<

I think that the Royal Air Force might disagree with you on that one....
 
Christa
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:32 am

I would have to agree..

The Royal Air Force certianly helped stop the German advance over Europe and stopped the Germans from occupying the skies over Britain..




Regards,

Chris
 
ehvk
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:52 pm

well i have a bit of a different idea about that, i think the Germans lost the BoB because there wasn't enough quality leadership. Instead of attacking strategically like they did in the beginning. They went over to a revenge strategy. With that I mean instead of keep bombing airfields they started bombing city's it think that that is where the lost the BoB

Greets,

Léon
 
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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:14 pm

Ehvk:

Yes. The Luftwaffe had the most success when attacking the RAF directly.
 
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keesje
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:07 am

I'm worried about the military build up in Asia.

US and Russia seem to have given up the silently agreed cold war policy of only providing downgraded weapons (in terms of radar, ECM, precision weapons etc.) outside the US/Russia.

Players: the Koreas, Japan, China, India, Taiwan etc.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/f15/f-15k/
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/su30_3.jpg


 
dl021
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:56 am

Well....the bigger the Indian military is the better off we all are as it gives the Chinese something to think about. The PLAAF is the largest airforce out there and the Taiwanese will be happy to illustrate that for you. As for quality, they are rapidly improving that are as well. But lets not knock quantity, as well the saying goes "Quantity has a quality all its own."

That said, the US military, if the political will was there, could strangle pretty much any country it desired simply by executing a blockade using our relatively unbeatable nuclear submarine force. Should we choose to our air forces are capable of dominating the skies over whichever country we choose. The ability to sweep the skies and interrupt trade clearly gives the US military an advantage over any potential adversary.

What evens things up is this....who has the will to finish any job? In WWII Germany had multiple opportunities to win the war prior to the US entering, only to have the military planners overrulled by political considerations. The French could have stopped the Germans while the Polish campaign was going on as they were overwhelmingly superior in aircraft, armor, and manpower....they simply did not have the political will to move quickly and effectively.

Vimanev is correct in that we have a problem in dealing with the insurgent and terrorist. They are the big problems, and they will require the most political and moral will to defeat. The airpower that will matter here is the low tech COIN air with stamina and punch, the low observable recon birds that can get low enough to give realtime intel on actual people. The Helos that transport our military to the hot zone in a timely fashion....but none of this matters unless we are willing to take the punishment a terrorist campaign can dish out with relatively little manpower. Are we willing to do what it takes, because our enemies sure are.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:10 pm


US and Russia seem to have given up the silently agreed cold war policy of only providing downgraded weapons (in terms of radar, ECM, precision weapons etc.) outside the US/Russia.

Downgraded weapons? where do your people get that kind of crap?

The US supplied a military ruled Pakistan with F104 Starfighters way back in the 60's, leaving India with no option but to go to the Soviets for the Mig-21's: again their top of the line fighter at the time.

In the early '80's a visiting team of IAF officials was pleasantly surprised when they were invited to watch the flight of the then secret Mig-29 which was offered (and accepted) to the IAF.

Both the US and the Soviets did offer their top of the line aircraft and weapon systems to their favored allies based on their assesments. Its called real-politik.

Much of the blame for the "arms race" in Asia should rest with America. America has shown itself to be thoroughly irresponsible as far as arms sales go. Every little tinpot dictator in the middle-east and asia has relied on America for his weapons purchases: Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, even Iraq!

-Roy
 
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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:36 pm

Indianguy:

How about we shut up about arms sales to Iraq, huh?

Based on data from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (sipri.se) -- you can find the original URL in the chart.



And like the Soviets didn't sell arms abound?
 
flyf15
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:01 pm

I once heard that the Confederate / Commerative Air Force ranks among the largest for air forces around the world.  Big thumbs up
 
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keesje
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:37 pm


Downgraded weapons? where do your people get that kind of crap?

Indianguy, not every mig21, mig23, F16, F15 is the same.

I'm sure you know the differences between the mig23M and MF versions. More "custimization" can be found in available randar modes/ranges & state of the art ECM.

the export mig21, 23 and Su22 were inferior the ones the Russians kept for themselves..


High powered interceptors like the SU15, Fiddler & Foxhound were not exported, same for the Fencers, Backfires etc. First F22 customers outside the USAF ? They also remianed carefull after Iran traded in some F14s/Phoenix missiles for loads of tanks & handguns in the early eighties..

Even the F15s exported to Israel & Saudi Arabia were delivered with some critical functionality left out. (of course the Israelis solved this issue themselves..)

The SU30MKK/F15K are a new chapter IMO..




 
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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:14 pm

KEESJE:

Unless you believe the part about Hughes employees destroying the Phoenix seekers before they left Iran. (No direct evidence either way.)
 
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keesje
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:39 am


N328KF, I believe thats more of a "feel good story" after this painfull event. Hundreds of Phoenix misseles were spread out over Iran, they even used it to develop the ASM named the "Sattar-1", which is clearly based on the Hughes Phoenix.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:18 pm

Typical. Call bullshit on his point and he then diverts.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:29 pm

With the Addition of more Aircraft regularily.Will the rankings stand constant or Vary.
regds
MEL
 
atmx2000
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:28 pm

Much of the blame for the "arms race" in Asia should rest with America. America has shown itself to be thoroughly irresponsible as far as arms sales go. Every little tinpot dictator in the middle-east and asia has relied on America for his weapons purchases: Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, even Iraq!

BS. I can think of plenty of tin pot Middle-Eastern and Asian dictators who relied on the Soviets and other suppliers: Iraq, Syria, Egypt (before Sadat), Sudan, Libya, Vietnam, North Korea, Yemen, China. India was probably the only democratic country that bought arms from the Soviets. Everyone else was an authoritarian/totalitarian state. In contrast many of the states supported by the US were democracies or were moving that way or were pushed that way by the US.

Also I don't think Saudi Arabia qualifies as a dictatorship. Power is spread as it was in China and the Soviet Union post Mao and Stalin. And Pakistan flirts with democracy on occasion.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:32 pm

I'm worried about the military build up in Asia.

Then maybe certain European governments shouldn't be so keen on selling miltary weapons technology to China. Especially since they don't participate in any collective security arrangements in East Asia.
 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:39 pm

MEL,

***Long post warning***

The thing is that calling an air force a large air force based solely on the number of aircrafts will not be an ideal way to judge any air force IMHO. A lot of factors would go into ideally judging an air force. In no particular order the following would have to be kept in mind for judging the air force:

  1. Technology

  2. Area to defend.

  3. Air defence Systems available

  4. Number and type of air defence fighters

  5. Number and type of Air superiority fighters

  6. Number and type of ground attack aircraft

  7. Transports

  8. Serviceability of the inventory



Technology: What kind of recon , surveillance , monitoring equipment is available. While this may seem a very small point a war in any sphere is not all about 2 aircrafts blasting each other out of the sky. Ask the likes of Lt -Awacs and a couple of USAF boom operators and load masters on this forum and they would be able to tell you how important equipment like AWACS become in an actual war. Besides Awacs, satellites and ground based radars also make a very important contribution. These would be the first line of defence in identifying a threat, if you do not know someone is attacking you just what can you do with a million aircrafts in your inventory. In an actual attack these prove invaluable as guidance/additional defence systems for front line attack aircraft. For example , do you remember the case when a PAF orion was crossing into Indian airspace repeatedly , what happened, two MiG 21-Bis's were scrambled , these were controlled by ground radar to the infiltrating aircraft. While the mission pupose was served , ground radar is limited by its range. On the other hand an AWACS system can fly and make the radius of surveillance a lot bigger.

Area to Defend: Like i said what good is it for a country the size of singapore to have 10000 aircrafts defending it ? While it would make the country very very secure and probably nobody would ever dream of attacking it , but would it make the air force the best ? Similarly try defending russia with about 500 su 30's . Just not worth it . While it may have the best fighter in the world any country would be able to make mince meat out of the air force in no time.

Air Defence Systems: What type of ground based air defence systems are available ? SAM's while they may seem insignificant in times of peace are extremely effective in times of war. With these weapons systems capable of tracking 12 aircrafts and in altitudes varying from 500 ft to 60000 ft are far more capable of inflicting damge than a single pilot in a Su 30. Again the range and the quality of ground based radar also makes an important contribution. What good is a radar which has an effective range of only 50-60 kms.

Number and types of Air Defence/Air Superiority/Ground Attack aircraft: Again in this the type of aircrafts are extremely important. Sheer number does nto matter , like everything else there is a fine line between quantity and quality.Having 10000 sopwith camels against 500 F18's is not an option. The reason I have split up the aircrafts into 3 is because of the roles each aircraft plays. This is where multirole aircrafts prove their worth. The advantage being that the same type of aircrafts can be put into multiple roles.
For example in the context of the Indian Air Force, a MiG 27 is a very effective bomber , but will it be able to defend itself effectively against a fighter aggressor ? Probably not . So for every bombing raid you would need to send escorts with the bombers , why not use the escorts else where ? Again, there needs to be a balance drawn out , having a fleet of 1000 Su 30 MKI's may not be worth it for the IAF .The bomb load of the MiG 27 is much higher. But the fact still remains , multi role aircraft would always be more effective in a war than a single role aircraft. To see which country has the best airforce we would need to see if the balance is correct.
Another important part of this point is the range of these aircrafts and what kind of range extenders does the air force have. What good is an excellent fighter or a bomber with range of only 200 Kms ?

Transports. This probably is the only part where sheer numbers would count irrespective of the type of the aircraft. Their basic purpose is transporting anything , maybe the CO's uniform or scotch or food or armament. But wihtout it , you cannot hold the territory you just captured.

Serviceability: Every airforce needs an excellent and dedicated set of mechs and their support infrastructure. Every war will ensure that there are equipment failures and it is upto the mechs to see how quickly any aircraft/air defence system can be put on back into action. Again similar to my earlier examples , having 100 out of 5000 aircrafts servicable and ready for action is hardly of any use to any country.

Well that was the long post of mine , In advance I did not mean to step on anybody's toes out here ,apologies if did manage it.

Regards
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:27 pm

Thanks Indianflyboy.
Thats took a lot of paitence.
Very well compiled.
Were you in the Armed forces by any chance  Smile

Why do the chinese rely on numbers.
regds
MEL
 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:08 pm

"Were you in the Armed forces by any chance"

Well , yes and no ..... , thats all I can say  Smile


Regards

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:05 pm

Well , yes and no ..... , thats all I can say
Im Thinking.
regds
MEL
 
liquid
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:07 am

Sorry this is from a while back in the thread, it just kinda bugged me:

"Democracy Matters.....Especially if you are the Worlds largest Democracy"

The United States is not a democracy.

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United State of America
and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands
one nation under god, indivisible
with liberty and justice for all.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:14 pm

Liquid:

I believe that poster is referring that (in terms of population only, not area, GDP, whatever), India is the largest democracy.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:34 pm

Thats Correct.
The Reference was to INDIA,Not the USA.
regds
MEL
 
sovietjet
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:24 am

N328KF -

The Russian strategy and training is different...and it does work. Although the Soviets lost the war in Afghanistan, their tactics and strategies and training worked in the scenarios they were made for. It was the country itself, the way the war was fought that messed up the quick victory they were looking for. It's the same now with the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. Your enemy is unknown and hidden...you can't develop a strategy against that, whether you're in the US or the USSR. I think the US has a great system of training and tactics, even if it's different than the Russian one. You should swallow some pride and admit the US isn't all-knowing about everything.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:48 am

The United States is not a democracy.

Oh yeah, the USA is a dictatorship then ?


I don't know how many times I wrote it on that forum, but democracy and republic are not exclusive words.
Republic is incompatible with monarchy, but many republics (including the USA) are democractics.

Now back to your books liquid.
 
dl021
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:03 am

sovietjet...the Soviet system was set up the way it was due to the system behind the planners. They were required to limit the amount of information available to the average serviceman and to eliminate the need for initiative, which was considered dangerous to the political officers and security services. The limited range of their aircraft and the unsophisticated nature of their planning prevented them from being able to react to unexpected changes to the battle and would have put them at a serious disadvantage to the western militaries they would have faced.

One other limitation they faced due to their system was the low quality of their NCO's, still a problem today with the Russian army. They place too much power on school trained company grade officers and do not have the professional NCO corps that is the backbone of the average western army.

The Soviet air forces would have been able to bowl over some opponents, but would have needed some serious luck to eliminate their planned primary opponents who outclassed them in weapons, tactics, training, and support. The biggest asset of the Sovs was their quantity (which had a quality of its own). Their number two asset was the layered air defense network that was the densest in the world, and had a long term try out with the Egyptians and Vietnamese. The Soviet focus and advances in AAM's and SAM's, culminating with the long range AWAC killer missiles and the S-300 missiles, came about due to their concerns that we would dominate their aircraft in any conflict and they were looking for the knockout punch and failing that to deny their enemy easy access to their supply lines and command centers from the air.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:13 am

Can the Ranking change in the future.Or is it unlikely to.Maybe in the next 25-30 yrs.
regds
MEL
 
karan69
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:15 pm

Guys atleast for the Indian Airforce this is the best link possible

www.bharat-rakshak.com
follow the links to IAF

The SU30MKK/F15K are a new chapter IMO
And from articles read in magazines such as Airforces monthly, it is safe to say that the SU30 MKI is the best multirole fighter aircraft available in the skies today.
The only one capable of competing with it is the F-22, but that only when it comes into full fledged service and squadrons
 
USAFMXOfficer
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:32 am

Karan69 -

I'll take the F-18E/F or the latest block of the F-15E over the SU-30MKI.

 
dl021
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:47 am

USAF Is that due to loyalty or because you think that the F-15 can defeat the R-77 at a distance and that the thrust vectoring hypermaneuverable SU-30 is overrated as a dogfighter?

I am as hometeam as the next guy, probably moreso, but I hold a serious respect for the capabilities of both the airframe and the bvr weapon it carries.

I know the maintenance on the SU is a bitch, with engines not even lasting the 300hrs promised, but while they're running.....damn but its hot.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:07 pm

The recent Two Air Exercises with the IAF & USAF told a different story.
regds
MEL
 
IndianFlyboy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm

DL021,

The MKI's have not completed 300 Hrs as yet so no clue about the engine life, but the MK1's have no problems with the 300 hour limit, most of them having crossed it. This problem was however faced by the MiG 29's and the RD 33's on them and both Germany and India decided to keep the engine in 2 states , combat and non combat to get out more life. Got any particular incidents which highlight this issue with the AL 31F's ?

USAFMXOfficer and Karan,

I think there is a confusion between the Su 30 Mk1 and the SU 30 MKI variants. The Mk1 is a direct offshoot of the Su 27 K which is comparable to the F-18E/F Block or F-15 E block aircrafts. The Su 30 MKI on the other hand is an enhanced version of the Su 37(Su 35 UB or Su 37 UB) . The Mk1 and the MKI are quite different apart from their looks.
The only aircraft which is comparable to the MKI is indeed the F 22 at present.However the F 22 is far more advanced than the Su 30 Mk1.

Regards


 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:57 am

Any more International [India] exercises due in 2005.
regds
MEL
 
Vimanav
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:14 am

The Su 30 MKI on the other hand is an enhanced version of the Su 37(Su 35 UB or Su 37 UB)

The SU30MKI does not feature the canards which are typically found on the SU35 and SU37.

rgds//Vimanav
 
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:01 pm

I know they are Classified secrets,but is there anyway to know the resuls of International Exercises.
regds
MEL
 
fraspotter
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:24 am

I heard a little while ago that the USAF had a training exercise with the Indian Air Force. The USAF F-15s and F-16s had simulated "dog fights" with their Indian Counterparts and there were quite a few USAF planes "shot down". It kinda gets you thinking...... However, I believe the F-22 will change things a bit....

Cheers...
 
dl021
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:34 am

indianflyboy...good to hear from you. I got that from an article I read recently that was discussing the SU's. It stated (I cannot remember if it was Air Forces Monthly or Aviation Weekly) that the average life span of the engines when used for combat maneuvering was 300hrs.

It is possible that they were referencing the wrong a/c, but the Russian engines are not known for longevity under hard use. I'll try to find it and post the article if it's online.

DL021/Ian
 
dl021
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:46 am

ok...here is one reliable reference quoting Indian military sources.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/nov/17ashok.htm

Here is an interesting interview with the designer who addresses engine questions.

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/interview-chepkin1.html

and here is the report from a press conference at Farnborough where the Russians were discussing how to address this problem.

Lyulka-Saturn is Solving IndAF Su-30 Engine Problems (from AeroWorld.net)

Moscow-based Lyulka-Saturn joint-stock company - developer of the AL-31F powerplant used on the Su-27 family aircraft - confirmed that engine malfunctions took place on 18 IndAF Su-30Ks, blaming physical parameters of the Indian fuel as the cause.

"Despite inevitable problems occurring each time a new type enters service, the Indians continue to be excited about the Su-30 performance and willing to move forward with materialization of the Su-30 deal, a chief designer with Lyulka-Saturn said.

He further said that the current problems will not affect the development and production schedule of the AL-31FP powerplants with thrust-vector control destined for the Su-30MKI.

Indian aviation kerosene was found containing more fat-like substances than normal for Russian fuel. This substance gets clogged in the injector-type nozzles and the thin fuel-supply tubes, thereby worsening the engine performance.

The company's engines, most notably AL-7s, have been flying on Indian aircraft for many years without serious technical problems and, according to Lyulka-Saturn, there have been no similar problems observed on AL-31F engines on RusAF Su-27 fighters and their export versions in service worldwide.

At the Lyulka-Saturn stand, AWN was told that the current problems are probably caused by the oil now being taken from different oil rigs as compared to "earlier standard fuel" - the latter did well inside Russian-built engines.

Difficulties with Indian fuel hit the Moscow engine manufacturer unexpectedly, the chief designer admitted. However, the problem is being solved together with the Indians in a friendly atmosphere, Lyulka-Saturn says.

Ground personnel of IndAF were described as well-qualified and very cooperative. Joint Russian-Indian teams have been formed to find a solution. Described as "nothing more than a solvable minor operational problem," the malfunctions have shown the necessity to revise the design of some tubing in the fuel supply and dosage control system to match the Indian fuel, different than the Russian one in temperature/density/viscosity parameters.

This work is going to take half a year. Saturn-Lyulka provided the Indian side funding for this work in accordance with the agreed schedule.

- by Vovick Karnozov


 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:35 am

FRAspotter, it should be noted the specifics of the exercises that were conducted. Most US flights were in a four plane formations VS at least 12 aircraft generally of mixed configuration. Yes, this is the format that the US currently trains to combat but I think that war-time tactics would be changed in the face of known SU-30 MKIs.
 
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HAWK21M
Topic Author
Posts: 30178
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:24 pm

How Effective are the Chinese AF against the best.Quality wise.
regds
MEL
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:40 pm

When it comes to the PLAAF one has to remember that quantity is a quality all its own.

THey have been adding more modern fighters (SU-27, SU-30MKK) to their arsenal, but the majority of their air forces are still older copies and modifications of Soviet fighters and attack craft. Their one-on-one characteristics compared to modern western designs are weak, but if they can put 10 birds up to your one you have a problem.
 
IndianFlyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:58 pm

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:16 pm

MEL,

The bigger problem with PLAAF is with the whole bunch of the MiG 21 copies they have. Like DL021 suggested it will be a while before they replace them. They also do not have programs similar to the MiG 21 upgrade which India has been carrying out routinely. But yes, knowing the chinese and the way they work , it is just a matter of time till they have probably 5000 Su 27/Su 30's in their inventory.

Regards
 
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HAWK21M
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:28 pm

Would it be Economical to Mx such a Huge fleet.
regds
MEL
 
IndianFlyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:58 pm

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:38 pm

Well they do have a large area to cover , the following was their fleet information :

MiG 17 (F/PF) Manufactured by Chengdu and Shenyang (J4/J5): 1450
MiG 19 :Manufactured by Guizhou and Shenyang (J6): 4550
MiG 21 :Manufactured by Chengdu,Guizhou and Shenyang (J7) :1050
Su 27: Manufactured by Shenyang (J11): 78
Shenyang J8:100
Su 30 MKK: 76
Chengdu J10:5
MiG 31: 24
Xian FH7/JH7: 40
Tu 16: Manufactured by Xian (H6): 120
Nanchang Q5/A5: 600


Out of these the Xian FH7,Nanchang Q5/A5 and the Xian H6 are frontline bombers totaling to 760 aircrafts.

Wierdly enough the Chinese decided to produce more MiG 19's and stopped production of MiG 21's citing the fact that they were highly skilled dog fighters.The chinese also have a license to produce 200 MiG 31's , but this has not been done so far. As you can see the bulk of the PLAAF fleet is MiG 19's (4550 Aircrafts) .

Regards

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