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Al
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Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:54 am

Defence Minister for Australia yesterday announced the Oz Govt had decided to select the Airbus A330 for it's Multi Purpose Aircraft order for the RAAF.
5 A330's will be obtained, primarily as refuelling tankers but also for use as cargo and pax carrying roles, to replace the current 3 707 aircraft.
Similar set-up to the 737NG deal done last year with QF.
Press Release is at http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Hilltpl.cfm?CurrentId=3747

If anyone is interested in the full statement from the Defence Minister as to why the A330 was selected over the 767 competing offering, the link is http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/HillTranscripttpl.cfm?CurrentId=3748
 
cedarjet
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:59 am

I'm stunned. Oz is about as independent of the US as Israel is! (If you don't believe me, look at Howard's rush to war against a country 7,000 miles away.)

Hey if Boeing couldn't even win this one, they really are in trouble.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Horus
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:03 am

Cedarjet you have a point there Big grin
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N754PR
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:28 am

Great news, the RAF and now the RAAF!!
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
F4N
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:46 am

To all:

What nonsense people write. The Australians seem to buy whatever seems to suit their particular requirements. They've bought French fighters & helicopters, German tanks, Italian & British trainers & Norwegian missiles. They've developed indigenous versions of German frigates and Swedish (I believe) submarines.
That's only what I can think of. Yes, they buy US, but I think the above is indicative of a rather independent policy of equipment sourcing. Hardly the slavish toadies of US procurement as some would suggest.

Perhaps the A330 was actually better for them.

Think more; opine less...

F4N
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:44 am

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally Australian can stick it to NZers with their shiny "I'm so bloody good" 757s. I jest of course  Big grin .

Apparently they won't have any changes to the fuselage as far as adding extra fuel bladders goes. Maybe Johnny has Air Force Jet envy after a few trips on Air Force One? Will these at all be used where the BBj's are currently deployed? International VIP travel?

Here's a pic. No word on if they're -200's or -300's?



Qantasforever
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QANTASforever
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:51 am

Oh and F4N - well put buddy.

Australia buys hardware according to it's needs, and not it's alliances.
That said - Australia and the US have a very close relationship indeed - and perhaps in the interests of common joint training exercises - the USAF should get some A330s.

lol

QFF
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wedgetail737
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:57 am

We'll have to see what happens to the A330 Tanker since it's unproven technology. Airbus has never built a tanker before. Good luck to them. I would like to see what kind of cost overruns they'll have when thinks go wrong.
 
gigneil
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:58 am

I can say I'm surprised. PW even put out a press release stating they'd won the business for Australia's 767 MRTTs.

Odd. A good win for EADS, but odd nonetheless.

This should be in military av, btw.

the USAF should get some A330s

It may be less crazy than it sounds. EADS is prepared to build the plane here if the USAF buys it, and, after Boeing's foul play, they deserve to lose the deal.

N
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:03 am

I think the only reason the Pentagon won't go for A330's is because of the political ramifications of buying French airplanes.

1. France didn't support us in the Iraq war
2. Money is being sent to Europe...not in the U.S.

It would be political suicide for the U.S. to go with A330's primarily. But I could see a mixed fleet.
 
gigneil
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:06 am

2. Money is being sent to Europe...not in the U.S.

47% of the A330's major structures and systems are built in the US, and the plane will be built here if they sign.

Over 70% of the 7E7 will be built overseas.

It would be embarrassing to support Boeing with that strategy as well.

(Note: this isn't an endorsement of that. I think Boeing is doing the right thing for its shareholders. But, if you look at it politically...)

N
 
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VHTAE
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:16 am

Qantas already have the A330 and the 737NG in their fleet. I am sure Qantas will assist the RAAF on any maintenance issues.
 
Q330
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:28 am

Great news! There can never be too many A330s in Australia IMHO.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

No word on if they're -200's or -300's?

If I'm not mistaken, the A330 Tanker is based on the -200 version.

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
godbless
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:39 pm

In case somebody cares to open the links...
Press Release: http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Hilltpl.cfm?CurrentId=3747
Statement from the Defence Minister: http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/HillTranscripttpl.cfm?CurrentId=3748

Max
 
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scbriml
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:42 pm

We'll have to see what happens to the A330 Tanker since it's unproven technology. Airbus has never built a tanker before. Good luck to them. I would like to see what kind of cost overruns they'll have when thinks go wrong.

Well there really shouldn't be any problems. The tanker is being built by a consortium which includes, obviously Airbus but also Flight Refuelling Ltd, who are very experienced at in-flight refuelling.

Presumably, this consortium wouldn't have caused so much dodgy dealing at Boeing if it weren't considered to be a fairly serious competitor.
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manni
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:51 pm

Great news again for Airbus.

Already Airbus' fourth order this month after the 15 A320 family aircraft for Airbus, the 21 A320 family aircraft for China Southern and the 6 A330's for Cathay Pacific!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:13 pm

I think the only reason the Pentagon won't go for A330's is because of the political ramifications of buying French airplanes.

They are not French planes! They are built by a European consortium who just happen to have some of their final assembly plants in France (they are also in Germany)  Insane

Also, you don't break off diplomatic relations with a long-time ally because they disagreed with one issue.
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Leskova
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:22 pm

By the way, there are two things that Airbus is not:
1. they are not French - they're headquartered in France and Germany
2. Airbus is not a consortium any more - it is a company

Regards,
Frank

Edited to add: Great News for Airbus! Both the RAF and RAAF really surprised me with their decisions!

[Edited 2004-04-17 10:23:57]
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scbriml
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:30 pm

Leskova,

Yes, my bad about the consortium bit  Nuts

But please don't forget the British part of Airbus either  Big thumbs up
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Leskova
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:35 pm

Scbriml, don't worry, I won't forget about the British part of Airbus - after all, in the truest sense of the word, no Airbus could fly without the British parts...  Big thumbs up
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:07 pm

For the record, the Collins subs were not quite versions of Swedish subs. They were built by a consortium of Kockums (Swedish shipyard), CelsiusTech (Swedish armaments technology) and Oz companies, in Australia. The Collins subs are much larger than anything Sweden fields, since they are built for open ocean ops while Swedish subs are built for coastal/archipelago ops. They all include the Stirling cycle air independent diesels.

The frigates also had a (smaller) Swedish involvement, including electronics from Ericsson.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bullpitt
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:48 pm

And remember CASA is also part of Airbus with several plants in Spain. Big grin

The news is good news for the European aeronautical industry. Australia must never forget where its origins are and that a great percentage of their population are of European origin.
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Alessandro
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:12 pm

I read that they bought 5 of the A330 tanker...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
F4N
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:21 pm

Starlionblue:

point noted about the Collins program and its' origin; I used the example to illustrate that Australia does not appear to have the Warsaw Pact mentality about equipment sourcing that some would imply. I also forgot the trusty Caribou; a long-serving Canadian transport.

Another point is the fact that the Australian A330 order does not surprise me.
I believe that the 767 program is now so tainted with scandal that no foreign gov't will touch it until the political furor in the US subsides and the USAF gets a firm grip on the program. The original intent was to have the USAF order in hand so that other sales would cascade on top of it; that will not happen anytime soon.

I do not believe the A330 has much chance with the USAF unless Airbus makes a substantial offer involving plant & investment. I do not think offering to simply convert already-built frames to tanker configuration will be enough for any politician to go out on a limb for. They will have to build planes here.
Somebody posted that Airbus already hosts 2000 jobs in the US. Sorry, but 2000 sales & administrative type jobs do not add up to much for a global company in one of its' biggest markets.

Bullpitt:

Just one last point for you. If population origin had anything to do with it, the US would field all European equipment, since that's where most of us still came from however long ago.

regards,

F4N
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:08 pm

F4N, no problem. I just remembered the info since my friends family moved Sweden->Oz to work on the subs.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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solnabo
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:07 pm

 Big thumbs up Waaaay to go RAAF & Airbus  Big thumbs up

Michael//SE
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Russophile
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:30 pm

I used the example to illustrate that Australia does not appear to have the Warsaw Pact mentality about equipment sourcing that some would imply. I also forgot the trusty Caribou; a long-serving Canadian transport.

Huh? Australia, US, UK, etc, etc all have that Warsaw Pact mentality about equipment sourcing.

Just how many Sukhoi Su-30KNs does the RAAF have? How many MiG-29s and Su-30s do the Indonesians and Malaysians have?

We have been offered various Russian products, on extremely generous terms, from the Be-200 to the Su-27 (and derivatives) to the MiG-29 (and derivatives).

Instead of having a truly formidable air force, we now sit by idly whilst the Indonesians arm themselves with some of the most sophisticated, and widely accepted as the best, aircraft on the planet.

Why? Because we have that Warsaw Pact mentality
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:22 am

I think people forget the reason why the RAAF bought the A330 tanker is the fact Qantas' maintanence group will maintain the planes. Given that QF already fly A330 variants on commercial service, the maintanence infrastructure is already in place to service the new tankers.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:23 am

Best reason I've heard yet, RayChuang.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ben
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:28 am

Don't forget Macchi and Pilatus trainers in the RAAF, so you can add Italy and Switzerland to the mix.
 
Leskova
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:39 am

If Australia bought the A330s because they can be maintained by Qantas, then I'd really like to know who maintains Qantas' B767s... because they fly those too, you know...

Regards,
Frank
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F4N
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:21 am

To all:

I was wondering when the Qantas/A330 connection would be suggested as a possible reason for the RAAF selection seeing that Qantas and Australian fly 767's and could have serviced RAAF 767's just as easily(talk about a win-win circumstance for Qantas). No, given the number of commitments that Australia has taken on and the limited number of frames involved, the larger a/c certainly would make more sense. I believe that by and large, the A330 suited the RAAF more.

Russophile:

Either I'm missing your point or you missed mine. The Warsaw Pact comment implied single-sourcing equipment regardless of suitability. I hardly think Australia meets that criteria simply because they haven't chosen any Russian equipment. Your comments regarding the US, UK are true to a point. Any country with a large arms-producing industry is going to favor a domestic option if available unless that option is clearly inferior. Nontheless, I would point out that even the US & UK field foreign equipment, USMC Harriers & USCG HH-65's come to mind, RAF Hercules and Globemasters are others. I believe that the USCG recently selected CASA's maritime patrol CN-295 while the EH101 is a candidate to replace the Presidential helicopter fleet. That said, could you tell me how many foreign a/c fly in Russia's AF?

If you are suggesting that western AF's do not buy Russian equipment because of bias towards western systems while 3rd world AF's do not share similar prejudices, you are probably correct. However, I would caution against your over-simplifying the arguement. I doubt that anyone would suggest Russian a/c are inferior. The Sukhoi and Mig series are highly respected for their capability & performance. However, much goes into equipment selection
and Malasia's or Indonesia's requirements probably do not mirror Australia's.
Nor do Australia's politics match their neighbors, whose recent anti-western sentiments probably precluded the western offerings. If Malaysia dumps procuring the f18's it had previously wanted, that point will be clear. Repayment terms also figure in; I believe that Russia accepted barter in commodities as part payment. I'm not sure if L-M or EADS would be so accomodating. Most likely however, is the fact that no western AF is likely to buy a major Russian system until the Russian design bureaus prove they can and will support a major system to the standards expected and at a reasonable cost. You may not agree or like it, but i believe that is the biggest stumbling block to Russia's
export aspirations.

regards,

F4N
 
warren747sp
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:54 am

It is great to see all of our European friends to be so jubilant anytime Airbus gets an order. I am positive the reverse is not true when Boeing gets an order. I often wondered why this is the scenario?
747SP
 
aussie747
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:21 am

"Qantas already have the A330 and the 737NG in their fleet. I am sure Qantas will assist the RAAF on any maintenance issues."

That was part and parcel of why Airbus won the contract, two main resons. Also these have been reported in numerous Australian newspapers.

(a) The bid was made on the basis that Qantas Defence Systems would maintain these plane and to provide all training needs even operational staff.
(b) The trouble that was ongoing with the US forces contract with the 767 tanker program had provided negative publicity.

 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:44 am

They are not French planes! They are built by a European consortium who just happen to have some of their final assembly plants in France (they are also in Germany

That's like saying Boeing is no longer a Seattle company. In a literal sense, they are not, they're a Chicago company. But they will always been seen as a Seattle company because their final assembly plants are in Seattle.

If Australia bought the A330s because they can be maintained by Qantas, then I'd really like to know who maintains Qantas' B767s... because they fly those too, you know...

Yes, but the 767 will leave their fleet much sooner than the A330 will

It may be less crazy than it sounds. EADS is prepared to build the plane here if the USAF buys it

I've heard several versions of that rumor as well-
1. Airbus builds the aircraft on the current A330 line, they are flown to a new North American plant, converted into tankers, then delivered to the Air Force.
2. Airbus builds a completly new assymbly line in North America where they are both built and converted, then delivered.

IMO, Airbus is simply pitching these ideas to attract some sympathy in a time when everyone sees Boeing as a bunch of crooks. They know this is a contract they cannot win, so why not smear Boeing? Remeber that the AF asked Boeing for the tankers, Boeing did not come pleading for a bail-out. Besides, the 767-Tanker was launched by the Italians and the Japanese.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:54 am

Regardless of whether or not EADS builds the Tankers here, the money still fills Leahy's pockets...and he's not in the U.S. And there is NO guarantee that Airbus will modify their A330's to be Tankers here in the U.S.

Although, it isn't the case. Had the USAF gone with 767 Tankers a year or two ago, EADS would have never seen the British or Australian Tanker. But thanks to a few individuals, Boeing is missing out on some big opportunities.

I still don't think you'll see A330 Tankers in the U.S. in the immediate future because of political reasons. Perhaps later in life when the 767T's are built, but not right now.

But I could be wrong. McCain might get his wish afterall. We'll know next month sometime.
 
gigneil
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:07 am

This week's flight international makes it pretty clear that foreign aerospace and defense manufacturers could soon contribute more to the US economy than Boeing does.

Food for thought.

N
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:16 pm

Bullpitt

Australia must never forget where its origins are and that a great percentage of their population are of European origin.

What an absolutely ridiculous conclusion. The origins of the Australian populace have nothing to do with where the RAAF source it's large tanker aircraft.

QFF


Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
syncmaster
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:49 pm

I think the A330 and B767 tankers can fit the needs fine of all countries looking for them, but what it comes down to is support. If Australia can have QF support these for a much longer time then what they would the 767, then more power to them. I love Boeing to death, but I don't understand why it's such a huge deal when either company wins any contract. It's kind of like chosing what kind of car you will buy, or what kind of computer. And to us, what airline you fly, it's how they fit your needs, and 1 product cannot fill the needs of all customers, it can, at the absolute most, fill the needs of 70% of customers, that's why we live in a world of 50 different variants of the same thing.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:37 pm

It is great to see all of our European friends to be so jubilant anytime Airbus gets an order. I am positive the reverse is not true when Boeing gets an order. I often wondered why this is the scenario?

Because they leave it to the Americans to do the "whoopin an hollerin"  Big thumbs up

It's just each 'side' supporting their own - somewhat understandable. What's less understandable is the extremes that some of the 'supporters' go to diss the other side's products. That's not good.

But, from a European perspective, it's good that EADS is gaining some momentum in this area. If the USAF tanker deal is rebid, they now have a much stronger case. I still don't think they'll win, but they will probably force a better deal for the US tax payer. So you should be happy as well  Smile
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GDB
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:29 pm

Qantas will be supporting their new A330 fleet for many years into the future, you cannot say that about their 767 fleet.
In any case, A330 tanker has a substantial transport capability without modification, that was important to both the RAF and RAAF, so I would not assume that the political problems with the KC-767 was the only reason for it not winning in the UK and Oz.
The RAF were likely less than happy about getting used airframes in the case of ex BA 767s too.

Also, saying that Airbus is purely French is wrong.

 
DutchFlyer
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:45 pm

Quantas buying the new A380, government buying A330 tankers. Sounds like a little political pressure.

"Also, saying that Airbus is purely French is wrong. " True, but French government still greatly contributing to Airbus financial well being. So calling it a French company is justified.
 
Leskova
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:20 pm

Dutchflyer, what on earth are you talking about?

Political pressure? Who's putting pressure on whom? France on Australia? Germany on Australia? What would the French or German governments have that could actually put so much pressure on the government of Australia that they could be persuaded to convince a non-government-owned business (Qantas) to buy Airbusses? And what exactly does the French or German (or any other) government have in hand to force Australia to buy Airbusses?

Please - let's at least try to stay somewhere close to the facts...

As for calling Airbus a French company because the French government contributes to Airbus' financial well being - well, then it still wouldn't be a solely French company, because other countries have had - and to some extent still have - a hand in that...

Or maybe I just missed the sarcasm in your post... I certainly hope so...

Regars,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
DutchFlyer
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:48 pm

Frank, of course A is not a pure 100% French company, but France is the largest share/stake-holder of the consortium (correct me if I am wrong).

Regarding my political pressure remark I believe because of the large amounts of money involved in the aviation industry and the pride of nations at stake a decision to buy A or B is not only taken talking company economics but also national economics.

Dutch government bought the JSF because of the massive orders for Dutch companies and I believe airliners decisions are based on compensating orders as well.
 
GDB
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:12 pm

Oh, it's all clear now, Qantas never really wanted A380/A330s, it was 'pressure'.
A330s better range, fuel off load capability and pax/cargo capacity had nothing to do with the tanker deal either?
 
Leskova
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:22 pm

Dutchflyer, first of all, Airbus is not a consortium anymore - it's a company jointly owned by EADS and BAE Systems, the detailed split between the owners looks like this:

20% BAE Systems
80% EADS


The owners of EADS look like this:

30.07% owned by SOGEADE
30.07% owned by DaimlerChrysler
5.50% owned by SEPI
34.36% freely floated


In other words, the complete picture of the ownership of Airbus looks like this:

20,00% BAE Systems
24,06% SOGEADE
24,06% DaimlerChrysler
4,40% SEPI
27,48% freely floated


SOGEADE is made up of Lagardère and SOGEPA, the latter being a French state holding company. SEPI is, of course, the Spanish state holding company.

So, even if SOGEADE consisted of 1% Lagardère and 99% SOGEPA (and, to be honest, I don't know what the split between these two is), DaimlerChrysler would still own more of Airbus than the French state.

Concerning your remarks about the influence of politics in aviation, I can only agree with you - I'd say that a very large amount of decisions made in the world of aviation are influenced by politics... but in this case, I don't really see the political reasons Australia could have had for ordering Airbus.

Regards,
Frank

P.S.: By the way - EADS describes itself as a Dutch company... at least that's where they're registered...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:26 pm

Airbus largely French? I thought the A319/A321 final assembly was in Germany? Are there not plans eventually for A320 final assembly to move there too? Did not Sir Richard Branson comment when the Queen named his latest A340 that it was great to have an aircraft in his fleet that was virtually 50% British (Wings brom BAE Systems and engines from Rolls Royce)?

The Australian government has gone for Airbus. Good for Airbus in slowly building up military models of its aircraft. The UK government did the same, choosing the new build A330s over second hand BA 767s. Given that for the UK order there was strong British involvement in both bids can't just have been political that Airbus won.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
F4N
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:37 pm

RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:51 pm

To all:

There doesn't seem to be a topic we can't turn into AvB, is there? I think that given the fact that the requirement was for 5 frames, just 5, the larger and more versatile option was picked. Look at the RFP; trooping, tanking & cargo. The 767 will probably suit the USAF requirement very well since it is intended as a tanker and probably little else. I know that there are KC10's which do cargo/tanking, but the requirement is to replace KC135's. The USAF has a fleet of strategic transports to do primary trooping/cargo.

In contrast, the RAAF has no strategic transport fleet. The have to get the most versatility they can from what they have. The larger frame works better.

Were there attempts to influence by foreign gov'ts on behalf of their respective mfgr's? Probably. Was it crucial to the selection process? Probably not. I believe a statement from the Australian MoD mentioned the Airbus offer represented "better value". Perhaps it is best to leave it at that.

I can't wait to see what happens here when Singapore selects its' new fighter.
Rafale vs F15 vs Eurofighter. It will be interesting to see what the flag-wavers and drum-beaters here do with that.

regards,

F4N
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:57 pm

Dutchflyer, first of all, Airbus is not a consortium anymore - it's a company jointly owned by EADS and BAE Systems, the detailed split between the owners looks like this:

con·sor·ti·um n.- An association or a combination, as of businesses, financial institutions, or investors, for the purpose of engaging in a joint venture.

Airbus looks a lot like a consortium to me.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Leskova
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Australian Govt Goes With Airbus Order

Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:11 am

DfwRevolution, by the way you see it, that makes every company that is jointly owned by two companies a consortium...

Airbus is not a loose "association" anymore, or a few companies that - for now - want to work together: Airbus is a registered company.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!

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