Canadian Maritime Helicopter Project (MHP)

staycool · Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:46 pm

Hi All,
Does anyone know anything about the timescales for this project. It's to replace the Sea Kings that Canada are using for Maritime Patrol duties. The last I heard was that a decision would be taken mid 2004 on whether to go with the Sikorsky (H?) 92 or AgustaWestland EH101. Did I miss the announcement or has it been delayed? Any info appreciated.

Tom

WrenchBender · Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:38 am

We are all waiting with bated breath. Mid July was the projected anouncement date.
But with the recent election and not having a Defence Minister (Lost his seat to a 25 year old rookie) to make the anouncement who knows when......

WrenchBender

L-188 · Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:07 am

Ah, and while we wait, more Sea King crews will die.

Thanks for cancelling the EH-101 Cretian.

staycool · Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:06 pm

Good point L-188. From what I've read the Canadian Military needed a replacement years ago, but political wrangling has pushed the project further and further back. Hopefully the mid July date (thanks WrenchBender) will be met and the best Helo/System for the job will win. I can't help thinking tho' that the EH101 does not stand a chance, purely because it would involve a reversal of a political decision taken years ago which has, in turn, cost service people their lives (just my 2 cents worth!).

Tom

WrenchBender · Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:49 am

I started on Sea Kings in 1980 and was told then that a replacement was coming 'soon'. Since then I have spent 15 years over 3 postings working on them and they are near and dear to my heart.
Yes, Chretien could have gotten us replacements. But it would not have stopped the fatal crash in 1994 (in which I lost my Sqn DCO and my Detachment Commander). The Sea Kings get a lot of bad press but they are not unsafe and if they are sold off after a replacement gets here, they will probably get snapped up by a heli-logging outfit.
The recent upgrades include new series Main Gear Box, -100 upgraded engines (extra 100+ hp each) center section replacements etc. If the avionics was brought into the 21st century (autopilot, sensor suite) it really would not need replacing.

WrenchBender

L-188 · Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:27 am

That is half the problem wrenchbender, you guys are still flying the exact same frames as 40 years ago.

Like it or not, Aluminum does wear out over time. If it didn't no aircraft would ever have a smoking rivit.

But a helicopter is a high vibration airframe, add to that operating it in a harsh marine enviroment.

If the Canadian Forces had been buying periodic replacement frames of the same time over that 15 year period, and using them to replace the oldest/most worn out examples of the Sea King, then we wouldn't be having this discussions, and replacement of the type probably wouldn't even be on the discussions table.

Pronto · Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:49 pm

It's supposed to be annouced this Thursday, 22 July. It will look pretty stupid on the Liberals if they select the EH101, even if it would give some commonality with the Cormorants.

staycool · Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:59 pm

Thanks Pronto.
Just checked most of the news feeds and no info on the announcement having been made.
Any updates anyone?

L-188 · Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:07 pm

Supposed to be today actually, Graham is up in Shearwater and should be making the announcement.

Rumor is that the H-92 is the winner....at least according to the story in the Toronto Red Star.

L-188 · Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:04 pm

Been confirmed,

Sikorsky's H-92 has won the contract....

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1090582695264_85991895/?hub=TopStories

PPGMD · Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:53 pm

Well it's good news to hear, they are going to buy a new helicopter, I figured they would just buy some old dented Westland Seakings from the British.

Let's hope for the Sea King pilot's sake that it doesn't get canceled.

WrenchBender · Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:14 am

The latest from the Canadian Military website 2 more interrelated contracts to be awarded for modification to the 12 Halifax class Patrol Frigates and training/simulator facilites.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1415

L-188 · Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:57 pm

Funny they only mentioned the Halifax Frigates, and not the 4 Tribal destroyers as getting converted for the H.92.

Correct me if I am wrong but the H.92, strikes me as a smaller platform then the EH-101. I know a lot of people, including me, feel that an EH-101 selection was politically unacceptable, and would go so far that the H.92 would have won the Cormerant contract if it had been available at the time, but shipboard size is an important consideration in a naval helicopter selection.

WrenchBender · Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:05 am

The Tribals are getting close to the end of their useful life, they also have a weight problem. The addition of CIWS on the hanger top, low IR funnels etc added a lot of weight on a class of ship that rolls it's guts out. When they deploy these days they only have 1 Helo instead of the 2 they are designed for.
I am not sure of th H92 wieght but it is closer to a Sea King (20.5 Klbs MAUW)than an EH101 (35 Klbs MAUW)
I have no idea where the name came from (Cyclone) designation will be the CH148.

WrenchBender

L-188 · Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:06 pm

Didn't they SLEP those ships about 10 years ago?

They should be good for at least another 15 I would have thought.

Still any word when MOD is going to order replacements.

The Halifax's are well rounded ships, but lets face it, they are still Frigates and not destroyers.

WrenchBender · Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:14 am

They used Frigate instead of Destroyer as it is more politically correct. The CPF's are almost the same size as the Tribals and actuallry pretty close to the same arm't as the original tribals.
The TRUMP update of 10-15 years ago is what has changed the way the ships are operated. Now the they are more of an air defence platform coupled with Command/Control function. They like having the Flight Deck but not the liability of the Helo
Here's some comparisons:
Sea King on CPF Flight Deck

Sea King on Tribal (Thats my Butt facing the camera)

CPF & Tribal (CPF at top and bottom, Trump Tribal 2nd from top )

WrenchBender

L-188 · Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:30 pm

So would that but shot be a Moonie from the land of the Loonie???

At least we can tell you where never a plumber.

Tell the truth, when I come up with the fictional Alaskan Navy, I was considering a couple of the Halifax class ships.

Can't afford the heavy manning of US designs.

Canadian Maritime Helicopter Project (MHP)

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