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GDB
Posts: 14480
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Lockheed Wins With US 101 Presidential Chopper

Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:11 am

To be fair to MDD, though of course the AV-8A's were UK produced, (with only minor mods, such as US munitions, cockpit equipment and simplified avionics as USMC did not have the RAF requirement for low level attack in C.Europe conditions), the ADEN 30mm cannon were kept however, the AV-8B was built to a USMC requirement.

The UK pulled out of a joint programme in 1975, for budgetary reasons, so the US went on alone for a few years.
Had this remained the case, the UK would have gone down the road of refitting a new 'Big Wing' to the aircraft, however the RAF wanted something more capable when funds to replace or update first generation Harriers became available, Big Wing would have been logical for Sea Harriers however, but logic doesn't always win out.

So in 1981, the UK rejoined the programme (BAe were always involved however), to provide new aircraft for the RAF, a completely new generation Harrier just for the RAF was deemed unaffordable, why not latch into the much larger US programme, economies of scale etc.

So Harrier GR.5/7 was a UK version of a US version of a UK aircraft!

With a very different avionic and weapon fitment, as well as a larger LERX (as the RAF were not happy with turn radius of AV-8B), more birdstrike proofing of windscreens and other mods.
The RAF also specified extra wing pylons just for AIM-9s, leaving the rest for other stores.

Now with the Hawk, clearly major mods were needed to adapt it for carrier training.
But in 1981, clearly US industry was not providing an all American solution for this requirement, the DoD could not have been too keen on a modernized T-2 Buckeye.
The only other jet trainer coming down the line then was the Fairchild T-45(?), a side by side trainer for the USAF with low performance, totally unsuitable for the USN role, which itself was cancelled in 1985, so clearly the USAF customer wasn't thrilled with it either.

Not just B-57 as license built Canberras, some UK engines were license built in the US, including the Spey as an Allison unit fitted in the A-7.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

RE: Lockheed Wins With US 101 Presidential Chopper

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:17 am

Recent reports (AIA dailylead 2/2/05) talk of Sikorsky possibly seeking legal action against the contract, does this actually work or is it just keeping a lot of lawyers in business?

 
greaser
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Lockheed Wins With US 101 Presidential Chopper

Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:01 pm

does this actually work or is it just keeping a lot of lawyers in business?
If anything, it could stall the rest of the money going through..but who know's?? Or courts are famours (or infamous) for rulings on all matters. Hell, even the Europeans often have cases heard here.
 
grom365
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:49 pm

RE: Lockheed Wins With US 101 Presidential Chopper

Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:46 pm

Anyone who loses a competition keeps their legal options open. There's always the possibility that a selection was rigged or improper (e.g., recent history with Boeing and Darlene Druyun (sp?)).

The way the process works, the loser(s) are debriefed on the results of the source selection evaluation. Typically, how you were scored on each evaluation criteria (in stoplight chart format), and any risks or non-compliance issues that were determined during evaluation. Usually this is enough to prove the decision was on the up-and-up, or at the very least, that there is no potential for reversal and re-compete on legal grounds.

The winner(s) are also debriefed, and learn where their weaknesses lay.

In the last two "recent" big competitions, both Boeing and Lockheed Martin initially considered protests of the JSF and MMA decisions, respectively. The post-source selection debriefings showed them their were no technical or legal grounds for a protest and the matter ended there.
 
GDB
Posts: 14480
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Lockheed Wins With US 101 Presidential Chopper

Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:15 am

Didn't Cessna attempt legal action twice, after their jet trainer lost out to the PC-9 derived T-6 Texan for the training contract a few years back?
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Lockheed Wins With US 101 Presidential Chopper

Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:32 pm

Yes, and Cessna still lost, particularly because the economics of a twin-engined jet just couldn't equal that of a single-engine turboprop.

But as for me, I see training flights of T-37 Tweets still flying all the time out of Columbus AFB. Cessnas last a long time.

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