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columba
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Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:25 pm

Lockhheed Martin has offered Germany to lease 4 C-130J Hercules transporters untill the A400M is available. The leasing costs are rumored to be 40 Million Euros a year for all the aircraft. The USAF has offered Germany to take their delivery slots so that the planes could be available in a short time.


Link in German :
http://www.welt.de/data/2005/06/02/726519.html
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ruger11
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:40 pm

sounds like a good deal. The J is a great plane, I wouldn't be suprised if Germany actually bought one or two down the road, if they accept the lease agreement.
 
columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:21 pm

I am really hoping for that deal because of two reasons :

1) I am a huge Hercules fan (surely no reason why our goverment should take the C-130Js, but anyway)


2) The Transalls are very old and down, last year they were grounded. It was just a minor incident but with some C-130Js we would be very flexibel.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
dl021
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:47 pm

That would make sense for a short term lease. Germany needs the tactical transport with its new role in international peacekeeping and in Afghanistan.

THe Transalls cannot do the same thing, and the A400 has not even ascended from paper yet. There is a definite gap to be filled, and I would bet the USAF would love for someone to pay for and use a few C-130s until they are ready to take them.

[Edited 2005-06-02 15:47:20]
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NoUFO
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:14 pm

Quoting Ruger11 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be suprised if Germany actually bought one or two down the road,

Bundeswehr has always said they want a transport fleet that consist of only one type. If they are going to add a second type, it will most likely be a smaller aircraft.

Boeing offered Mr. Struck some C-17, and I believe he seriously considered the deal but eventually rejected it due to the comparatively high costs.
The new offer by Lockmart sounds more reasonable, and hopefully we'll see some C-130J flying for Bundeswehr, soon. It would certainly be a relief for some soldiers.
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columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 4):
Bundeswehr has always said they want a transport fleet that consist of only one type. If they are going to add a second type, it will most likely be a smaller aircraft.

Boeing offered Mr. Struck some C-17, and I believe he seriously considered the deal but eventually rejected it due to the comparatively high costs.
The new offer by Lockmart sounds more reasonable, and hopefully we'll see some C-130J flying for Bundeswehr, soon. It would certainly be a relief for some soldiers.

I hope the timing is right for a decision so short before the election.......
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GDB
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:58 am

The A400M is going beyond paper (or CAD) as parts are now under under construction.
But a lease of C-130J's makes sense for German operations in say, Afghanistan.
 
AirRyan
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:09 am

Italy has bought the C-27 I believe, that's like a smaller 2 engined version of the C-130J. If Germany wanted something a little smaller they could go for them. The A400M looks promising, but the C-130J is ready and available.






[Edited 2005-06-02 19:15:41]
 
bennett123
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:53 am

In what way is the C27 a version of the C130
 
dl021
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 am

Well, the C-27J is a heavily upgraded Alenia G-222, which uses the Lockheed's cockpit, avionics, and the AE engines found on the C-130J.

It is considered a smaller-Hercules J-model and marketed as such.
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keesje
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:07 pm

Troops shaken to core
From: By John Kerin
December 28, 2005

PARATROOPERS who fly to war zones on an RAAF C-130 Hercules - the main transport plane of the Australian Defence Force - could be left too shaken up to fight.

A report by the Defence Science and Technology Organisation suggests engine noise and vibration aboard the C-130J transport aircraft can at least temporarily impair human motor and memory skills.
It suggests troops to be parachuted into war zones aboard a C-130J should be seated to avoid the aircraft's high-vibration zones - usually the cabin seating area nearest the engines.


Is this typical for the -J and its 6 bladed prop´s?

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17672909-2,00.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):
Troops shaken to core
From: By John Kerin
December 28, 2005

PARATROOPERS who fly to war zones on an RAAF C-130 Hercules - the main transport plane of the Australian Defence Force - could be left too shaken up to fight.

A report by the Defence Science and Technology Organisation suggests engine noise and vibration aboard the C-130J transport aircraft can at least temporarily impair human motor and memory skills.
It suggests troops to be parachuted into war zones aboard a C-130J should be seated to avoid the aircraft's high-vibration zones - usually the cabin seating area nearest the engines.


Is this typical for the -J and its 6 bladed prop´s?

This is the first report I have read about this. But, since the A-400M also has a 6 blade prop system, would it have the same problem? Or is this just unique to the C-130J?

BTW, I think it is a good idea for Germany to lease the C-130Js until they take delivery of the A-400M.
 
columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
BTW, I think it is a good idea for Germany to lease the C-130Js until they take delivery of the A-400M.

Since this was an old thread and I have not heard anything new it is very unlikely to happen even with the new goverment.
It is a pity though because our C-160 Transalls are worn out and fly missions they have never been designed for. It was meant to be a short haul war zone transporter to fly within Europe.
I have always been a Herc fan since I have seen them during a low level flight over my house in Berlin, I lived close to American military facilities and sometimes they had manouvers with Hercs here. I also will never forget the sound of 6-8 Hueys flying over my house - a w e s o m e !!!!!!!!
Although being a Herc fan I would prefer the lease of 6-8 C-17 by the Luftwaffe but this may also just stay a dream !!!!
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md90fan
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:26 am

The C-27J seems like an good C-160 replacement. I wished germany had gone with the An-70 though  frown 
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L-188
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):
A report by the Defence Science and Technology Organisation suggests engine noise and vibration aboard the C-130J transport aircraft can at least temporarily impair human motor and memory skills.
It suggests troops to be parachuted into war zones aboard a C-130J should be seated to avoid the aircraft's high-vibration zones - usually the cabin seating area nearest the engines.

WTF?

Good thing they aren't trying to jump a C-119 then.
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columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:42 pm

Interesting news everyone:
As I have read in another aviation forum the German Air Force will decide this March wether they will lease 4 C-130Js or not. I really hope they will !!!!!!!!

Link in German:
http://www.flugzeugforum.de/forum/showthread.php?p=500324#post500324
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L-188
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 15):
Interesting news everyone:
As I have read in another aviation forum the German Air Force will decide this March wether they will lease 4 C-130Js or not. I really hope they will !!!!!!!!

It would be a good way to try out the aircraft.

Althought I don't think the RAF has ponied up for more orders for C-17's.
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NoUFO
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:55 am

According to the above mentioned forum, Lockheed Martin will probably need 2.5 years to deliver four C-130J. That's apparently the weak point since the A400M is in the pipeline.
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TheSonntag
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:06 am

If they were to lease C130Js, they would need to train pilots for that. How long is it going to take to re-train Transall pilots for the C-130J?

Germany needs a replacement for the Transall, that is obvious. My grandfather who was retired in 1981 was a Transall pilot flying them since the 70s... I find it really amazing that airplanes last that long, be it the B-52s, many DC-3s, KC 135s or the Transall...
 
columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 18):
If they were to lease C130Js, they would need to train pilots for that. How long is it going to take to re-train Transall pilots for the C-130J?

Some pilots are already trained on the Herc since they flew them with other airforces due to Nato exchange programs.
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CX747
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:07 am

Training pilots to fly the C-130J wouldn't take that long. The German Air Force could send plenty of pilots to "Little Rock" right now and have more than enough pilots to start flying the J models when they arrived.
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PADSpot
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:20 pm

First A400M will arrive in 2010 and with 2.5 years delivery and some more months of (usual) delay that comer with everything that concerns the German Military there would only be a little more than a year of transition time. There is not really much of a sense apart from just trying out something different than the A400M.

The nice aspect of the deal is that the proposed 40mil$ per year fall below the 50mil$ limit from which on any deal must be approved by parliament. But as the thread from the german forum says: The number of C-160 that GAF would have to withdraw from service in order to save the money which the C130J would cost, is simply too high at the current ready-rate of 40% for the C-160.

I think this NATO-wide transport alliance which hired 6 A-124 on a long-term basis was by far the best they could join ... big, strategic transport planes (120t) which can be effieciently deployed (through may nations, way cheaper than any C-17 deal) and whose operators don't care where they have to fly to (even into Kandahar or any other MANPADS threated location) ...

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 7):
Italy has bought the C-27 I believe, that's like a smaller 2 engined version of the C-130J. If Germany wanted something a little smaller they could go for them. The A400M looks promising, but the C-130J is ready and available.

Italian Air force operates quite a lot of Alenia G222 which is the base of the C27J. The C27J is just an upgrade utilizing much of C130J technology. But performance-wise it is smaller and can carry less tons than the C160 ... the C160 was designed in a way that all vehicles that fit into a C130 also fit into a C-160 (up to 16t). This is tremedously important to GAF and the won't do without that capability ...
 
columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Sat May 13, 2006 4:10 pm

One interesting observation I have made is that at the ILA the USAF is presenting a C 130J from the 403AW/815 AS this time.
This is pretty odd than usually they have would brought an older "E" version from Ramstein AFB. Also USAF C130Js are very rare to see here in Germany.
As I have read in a German aviation forum the aircraft landed in Cologne the day before yesterday (May 11th) and was taking off to Berlin on Friday.
Maybe a short presentation for some Luftwaffe and DoD officials ? I hope so !!!
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columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Sat May 13, 2006 4:51 pm

Here it is at a low fly by in SXF. The taker of the picture allowed me to post it here.
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NoUFO
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Sun May 14, 2006 11:00 am

Columba, Flugzeugforum requires a login to see pictures. Maybe you want to upload it to another server.
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columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri May 19, 2006 9:09 pm

@NoUFO

Sorry did not work.
But anyway Flugzeugforum also reports that there are rumors that the Luftwaffe will buy up to 6 C130Js. The source on that was the webpage "geopowers.com" - which is said to be not the most reliable source, so please don�t take to much into that rumor.
Geopowers reports that the German Minister of Defence was visting the Berlin Airshow yesterday and was shown the C130J by a high ranked US Airforce General, they also claimed to have some "insider information" from within the Ministry of Defence.
http://geopowers.com/News/News_II_2006/news_ii_2006.html
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N328KF
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Fri May 19, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
Well, the C-27J is a heavily upgraded Alenia G-222, which uses the Lockheed's cockpit, avionics, and the AE engines found on the C-130J.

It is considered a smaller-Hercules J-model and marketed as such.

The funny thing is that the C-27 started off as an Alenia/LMT joint venture, called LMATTS. You're right about the components it uses; After all of that work from LMT, the venture was severed due to infighting. Now, Boeing IDS has taken over as Alenia's partner. If any C-27s are built for the U.S., there is a possibility they will be built at Long Beach (per a recent AW&ST.)
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columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:28 pm

As todays newspapers report the A400M will face another delay so the need of an earlier replacement for the C 160 Transall may become imminent.
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PADSpot
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:11 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 27):
As todays newspapers report the A400M will face another delay so the need of an earlier replacement for the C 160 Transall may become imminent.

Care to give a source? Thx!
 
columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:50 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 28):
Care to give a source? Thx!

N24 morning news as they were discussing the headlines of today´s newspapers.
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columba
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:27 am

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MigFan
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 13):
I wished germany had gone with the An-70

I wished someone would have gone with it. I think the An-70 has great potential.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 14):
Good thing they aren't trying to jump a C-119 then.

Yeah, all of my rides in a C-130E/H were loud and bumpy as hell. It is definetly an experience one will not forget.

/M
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RichardPrice
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 30):
About the delay of the A400M (in German only):
http://de.today.reuters.com/news/new...-FRANKREICH-FIRMEN-EADS-AIRBUS.xml

http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/def...25306

They are just repeats of alegations mentioned over a month ago, and refuted by Airbus Military and EADS then.

Theres another thread here about it, take a look.
 
A342
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RE: Lockheed Martin Offers C130J To Germany

Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
But, since the A-400M also has a 6 blade prop system,

No, it has 8 blades.


But 10 million a year for one C130 is way too expensive.


It's sad that NVA didn't have any IL-76 which the Luftwaffe could have taken. I also feel phasing out the An-26 was wrong. Sad
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