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SlamClick
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U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:53 am

When I was in the Army a patch worn on the right shoulder was for the unit with which you first served in combat. (In my case; MACV.)

Now I see the US flag being worn on the right shoulder of National Guard and reserve troopies almost as if it is part of the uniform. I asked two reservists about it and they had no idea what I was talking about. If they'd been in combat they would have known.

So, what, if anything, does it mean?
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SATL382G
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:15 am

One thing I know for sure is don't ever ask them to replace it with a UN flag!!

I know nothing of Army uniforms but found this via google....

"WASHINGTON -- All Soldiers can now wear the U.S. flag insignia on the right shoulder of their utility uniform, as a continued reminder that the Army is engaged in a war at home and abroad.

“The flag has been around for years to identify deploying troops. Now based on the Army’s joint expeditionary mindset, the flag represents our commitment to fight the war on terror for the foreseeable future,” said Sgt. Maj. Walter Morales, the uniform policy chief for G1."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/army/a/aruniformflag.htm
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
dl021
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:47 am

The soldiers with a combat patch will still wear it on their right sleeve but the positioning will be lower than the flag according to what I heard.
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ShyFlyer
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:21 am

The current US Army Uniform Regulations, AR 670-1 (PDF file, 2.83 MB):
http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf
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MD11Engineer
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:06 pm

The flag on the shoulder was first introduced in 1943 during OP Torch, the Allied landimngs in Northern Africa. The reason was that the Colonial French of this region, which were mostly pro Vichy (the pro German Frech puppet government under Fieldmarshall Petain), but whom the Americans tried to win over to their side, were not to friendly to the British, because they bombed and destroyed the Vichy French fleet based in the the North African ports , mostly in Oran, Algeria, to prevent it from falling into German hands. The americans didn't want to have their troops confused with the British.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 1):
One thing I know for sure is don't ever ask them to replace it with a UN flag!!

What if a US Army unit gets deployed on a UN blue helmet mission? Are they then not supposed to wear the badge of the respective mission?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
JohnM
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:26 pm

The U S flag is required this October. The flag is required now for any troops deployed in OIF/OEF. Currently the combat patch is worn above the flag (which almost everyone dislikes and/ or questions). Rumored that it will changed that the U S flag will stay on top, and combat patch worn below. I hope so, I feel nothing should be above the flag! U S code only allows the full color flag, so only a full color flag is auth on the uniform. Subdued is a no go. I enjoy wearing the flag on my right shoulder. It was a great addition, if only that damn beret would be done away with, it is disliked by almost everyone. Let the SF, Rangers, Airborne, have it the way it was before it was given to everybody.
 
SATL382G
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:41 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
What if a US Army unit gets deployed on a UN blue helmet mission? Are they then not supposed to wear the badge of the respective mission?

When was the last time you saw US forces on a UN mission with the blue helmet/flag? Nobody I know in the US Military will wear the UN flag/helmet...
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:26 pm

THe Oklahoma army guard just got back from UN duty in the Sinai peninsula and wore the blue helmets.

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ANCFlyer
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting JohnM (Reply 5):
It was a great addition, if only that damn beret would be done away with, it is disliked by almost everyone.

The MOST ridiculous thing Shinseki did before he retired. I was in DC at the timem, and VERY, VERY short, and refused to get one . . . . it looks ridiculous.
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SATL382G
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 7):
THe Oklahoma army guard just got back from UN duty in the Sinai peninsula and wore the blue helmets.

Lt -- Are you sure?

I could have sworn the peacekeepers in the Sinai were Multi National vs. UN.
I'd be very surprised if any GIs (let alone the Joint Chiefs) would willing wear the blue flag/helmet.

http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/story.asp?id=798
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
dl021
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:44 am

I remember the non-airborne units being issued with orange berets. Airborne units taking their turn wore the maroon berets.
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L-188
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
What if a US Army unit gets deployed on a UN blue helmet mission? Are they then not supposed to wear the badge of the respective mission?

We had a couple people get deployed to Kosovo during the 1990's and they got the blue baseball caps with the UN logo.

Quoting JohnM (Reply 5):
U S code only allows the full color flag, so only a full color flag is auth on the uniform. Subdued is a no go.

That is the one issue I have with them. It makes a great aiming point. I don't think a subdued color version is offensive or a desicration. I can only hope that US code is modifed to allow a black/green and a desert tan/brown subdued version.

Quoting JohnM (Reply 5):
if only that damn beret would be done away with, it is disliked by almost everyone. Let the SF, Rangers, Airborne, have it the way it was before it was given to everybody.

Agreed, Gen. Shit-ski really did everybody a disservice with that move. The last time the US Army had a decent looking BDU cap was the baseball cap style ones that you see in the movie "Stripes" (Get the extended version, you get to see PJ topless).
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl021
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
The last time the US Army had a decent looking BDU cap was the baseball cap style ones that you see in the movie "Stripes" (Get the extended version, you get to see PJ topless).

Dude. Seriously. That was a seriously ugly hat. The BDU cap, when properly shaped, was the best looking hat for everyday wear. It was also the most practical, useful even in the field.

The beret was a seriously hot piece of wool that offered zero ventilation and zero sun visor.....

I would have fought with anyone that tried to take it, but I reserve the right to bitch about it.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
I can only hope that US code is modifed to allow a black/green and a desert tan/brown subdued version.

I've seen guys with the subdued flag. I wonder what is the basis for issue?
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SATL382G
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
We had a couple people get deployed to Kosovo during the 1990's and they got the blue baseball caps with the UN logo.

Before or after the Dutch and Canadian GIs in blue helmets got chained to a tree in Bosnia? (1995 I believe)
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
L-188
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:23 am

Before, I was out in 1994.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 12):
Dude. Seriously. That was a seriously ugly hat. The BDU cap, when properly shaped, was the best looking hat for everyday wear. It was also the most practical, useful even in the field.

OK then make the boonie the issue cap.

As far as the BDU cap, lets see here, a cap with a bill and a flat top...didn't Pepe-le-Pew wear one every time he joined the French Forgien legion?

Actually the do need to bring back the old watchcap like Radar wore.
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 9):
Lt -- Are you sure

Well in the Okie news upon their return, they showed "Desert" footage where they had blue ball caps (some might have been berets) on, though I guess it could have been stock footage. Several got hte UN medal upon their return as well. There is a Colonel I fly with who did a UN tour and he has photos wearing the ballcap blue hat. (He also called the whole thing a paperwaste but I digress).

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AirRyan
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:59 am

We (USMC 26th MEU) never wore Nato blue ball caps or anything in Kosovo in 1999. We were awarded a Natio Kosovo Medal afterwords, but I never saw any US troops wear that pansy blue color on any uniform. Of course, we as Marines never wore any US Flag patch on our cammies, either but that's just the way it's always been!
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:41 pm

NATO doesn't have blue patches/hats, I can get NATO medals from NATO AWACS for example, but the UN has the blue hats and UN blue medals.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
AirRyan
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:38 pm

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 17):
NATO doesn't have blue patches/hats, I can get NATO medals from NATO AWACS for example, but the UN has the blue hats and UN blue medals.

Yeah, I see what your saying, I don't know what I was thinking. That whole deal if I remember correctly was a UN/NATO clusterfuck to begin with. Even though Sir Wesley didn't turn out ot be my favorite political candidate, I still like how he disagreed with Klinton at the time.

Bottom line though, the new Army uniforms are enough to make a potential recruit look elsewhere, I mean their new ACU's are like something one might find on Sci-Fi on some cheesy future military slash alien conspiracy and/or time machine plot. The Army uniforms suffered a big blow when they handed out steam hot color black cotton Frenchie berets to everyone so they feel special, even when they know their still the largest branch and ugly little suckers do nothing to help the Army's image. But add in the new ACU's, wow - didn't the Army have a bad enough time with recruiting as it was?  Smile
 
ruger11
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:53 pm

AirRyan... heck yeah buddy! The only thing we've got is our nametapes and rank!... and with the new digitals, those don't even stand out, either! just the chevrons.

And the best looking cover (not "Hat") is a properly worn Marine 8-point! (not all starched up, but worn and faded, it just looks good.)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
The Army uniforms suffered a big blow when they handed out steam hot color black cotton Frenchie berets to everyone so they feel special, even when they know their still the largest branch and ugly little suckers do nothing to help the Army's image.

Wasn't it the same when, under Reagan in the 1980s, the olive drab BDUs got replaced with the camouflage ones, previously having been reserved for SF units?

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):
Wasn't it the same when, under Reagan in the 1980s, the olive drab BDUs got replaced with the camouflage ones, previously having been reserved for SF units?

1982 if my aging memory serves - the BDU was changed many times over the years . . . it was an ill-fitting, hard to maintain uniform when it came out. It didn't get much better. I do however like the way a set of BDUs looks starched.

This new uniform sucks by the way.
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AGM114L
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:24 am

At least the new BDUs will be wash and wear, no paying $20+ a month to have them starched anymore.
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SATL382G
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 22):
At least the new BDUs will be wash and wear, no paying $20+ a month to have them starched anymore.

We'll see how long that lasts. The old BDUs were supposed to be no starch too...
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
SlamClick
Topic Author
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:15 am

Uniform issues were always a big gripe in the Army. So grateful that I got to spend my last three years "out from under the flagpole" as we said. I was in a small unit in Vietnam and usually wore a locally-acquired ballcap with my bars and wings sewed on. Last two years were with Special Forces (as opposed to IN Special Forces with the suffix S or prefix 3) and the green beret looked great with jungle fatigues, especially with the sleeves rolled up as was permitted in the tropics.

It didn't look quite so good with a flight suit and with an orange flight suit - well, one guy at Southern Command told me I looked like an upside-down thermometer!

The worst thing Army Aviation did was design its own flight suit. They were nomex, their only reason for being, but they were two piece and made to (superficially) resemble the jungle fatigues. The shirt would pull out of the pants and give no fire protection and the sleeves could not be closed down with the velcro. With them as tight as they'd get I could still stick my other hand up the sleeve. Ridiculuous and unsafe! When I got in the NG I just wore my USMC nomex, picked up along the way somewhere. I still have it, it is just harder to zip up now.

Anyway, thanks for the answers to my thread question.

Carry On!
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AGM114L
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:31 am

I happen to like the new Army flight suit, or Aviation BDUs. They are nomex and they do have velcro at the sleaves. Plus they don't ride up your ass like the pickle suit and you can remove the blouse when its hot.
Some units require that you tuck in the blouse into the pants but I never ran into anyone who does.
The flight suits do stand out more though, yeah they look alot cooler but if I'm on the run from the enemy, the camo ABDUs are my choice. As far as picking up chicks goes you're not alowed to go to the bars in uniform anyway.
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: U.S.Army Uniform Question.

Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 25):
The flight suits do stand out more though, yeah they look alot cooler but if I'm on the run from the enemy, the camo ABDUs are my choice. As far as picking up chicks goes you're not alowed to go to the bars in uniform anyway

The air force drinks in bars all the time  Smile Though it depends on the situation at hand

Our Aussie exchange officers have a similar two piece type of flight suit. Very nice.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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