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Jalto27R
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What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:53 am

Here is a shot I saw of an Israeli F-16C:

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Photo © João Resendes - Azores Spotters



Then looking at a USAF F-16C:

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Photo © Tony Zeljeznjak




I noticed that at the top of the Israeli F-16C, there is a object that runs along, making the top virtually flat. On the other hand, the USAF F-16C has that object, but it only starts right before the tail. What exactly is that on the top? Sorry if I wasn't clear enough; all help appreciated.

Mike
 
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Spacepope
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:11 am

The Israeli F-16D you pictured is a later block number (Block 50+) than the Block 30 or so USAF F-16C. The hunchback holds more avionics.
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SATL382G
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:27 am

Is the "hunchback" removable like a conformal tank? Or is the hunchback an integral part of the airframe? Does the original F-16 moldline still exist under the hunchback?

I ask because I was reading an article on the block 60s (which also have the hunchback) and I noticed that the refueling slipway had been moved....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
Jalto27R
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:54 am

Thanks for the response.

Mike
 
L-188
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:23 am

That spine is an Israeli deal to find room to stuff more electronics into for the deep strike missions. I think that Lockheed now makes it available on their new production. The conformal tanks they are developing would go on either side of it.
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Jalto27R
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:47 am

Does the USAF carry any of these models?

Mike
 
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:58 am

Not just israeli. UAE and Greece also have the hunchbacks. I think the new ones for Chile may have them too. USAF do not have any of these in service, and the final USAF order was delivered earlier this year.

Israelis have also referred to this version as the F-16I. Lockheed calls the single and dual seat versions F-16E and -F respectively


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Jalto27R
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:46 am

Thanks for the answer; but does this mean that the USAF is faising out the
F-16?

mike
 
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:51 am

Those UAE birds have the conformal fuel tanks.
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:58 pm

Yes, they have the CFTs and the hunchback. The CFTs are removable however the hunchback isn't. Israeli F-16I's with centerline and wing tanks, plus CFT's have reportedly pretty decent unrefuelled range while still carrying a warload on the outboard pylons.

Greek F-16D Block 52+

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STT757
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting Jalto27R (Reply 7):
Thanks for the answer; but does this mean that the USAF is faising out the
F-16?

Yes in exchange for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Pentagon's BRAC recomendation call for drastic reduction of the F-16 fleet especially amongst Air National Guard Units.
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AFHokie
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 1):
The Israeli F-16D you pictured is a later block number (Block 50+) than the Block 30 or so USAF F-16C. The hunchback holds more avionics.

The photo of the US F-16 that Jalto27R posted is a block 50 F-16 out of Mt Home AFB in Boise Idaho.

The most current block the US flies is the Block 50/52 (50's have the GE engine, 52's have the P&W engine)

The UAE and I think Israel is buying block 60's not sure off the top of my head if anyone other than them has, most everyone else that's buying them now is just buying the block 50/52 version.
 
ruger11
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:43 pm

Straight off of Lockheed Martin's Website:

Dorsal Compartment
This compartment adds 30 cubic feet for more avionics with only small increases in weight and drag.


Conformal Fuel Tanks
Use of conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) extends the F-16's effective mission range/loiter time up to 50 percent, depending on the mission profile. CFTs can be used for both air-to-ground and air-to-air missions. They can be easily removed. They also increase weapon payloads by freeing-up additional store stations.
 
Jalto27R
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:26 pm

Thanks for all the responses guys.

Mike
 
LY744
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:35 am

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's get some things straight:

  • the F-16 in the picture is NOT a block 50, it's a block 30 made sometime in '87-'89.
  • it is most certainly not an F-16C as those are single seaters
  • all Israeli block 30 and 40 F-16Ds (24 of the former and 30 of the latter) came with the dorsal spine, it was designed and installed by Lockheed Martin but delivered empty to Israel
  • it does not contain fuel. It is an electronics compartment, used almost certainly to enhance the aircraft's capability in wild weasel and ECM missions
  • one of the reasons the USAF never chose to use a spine on their twin seaters is that those aircraft are primarily used for pilot training/conversion, while Israel ordered a large number of 'family models' to use as platforms for guided weapons delivery and etc. (not big fans of using single seaters for that)
  • the spine is non removable
  • indeed with the arrival of the block 50+ in 2000 or so, more countries opted to get the spine compartment, along with CFTs, but prior to that the only F-16s that had that were Israeli (and possibly Singaporean)


This is an Israeli block 50+:
http://www.pbase.com/xnir/image/45570726
Note the CFTs (those are removable however). Unlike the orders for the block 30 and 40 models, Israel will get no single seaters this time around.


LY744.
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aeroweanie
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):
Not just israeli. UAE and Greece also have the hunchbacks.

Singapore too.

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Actually, the USAF does own one, and just one, F-16 with a square spine (it is also the only F-16 with a center stick, instead of a side stick):
http://digilander.libero.it/aereiemissili/images/f-16/F-16-355VISTA.jpg
http://www.habu2.net/vipers/viperpits/vista2.jpg
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:22 am

LY, what are the cheeks on either side of the intake and just forward of the RESCUE markings near the cockpit for?
 
LY744
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Duce50boom (Reply 16):
LY, what are the cheeks on either side of the intake and just forward of the RESCUE markings near the cockpit for?

If you're referring to the grey items right behind the radome, I believe they are covers for antennae or something to that effect. All F-16s have them, but they are much smaller on all the earlier models, also noteworthy on the block 52+ are the enlarged housings for the lights on the sides of the air intake (also something to do with ECM), and the 4 grey strips on top of the fuselage between the radome and the canopy (common to all block 50+, not just the Israeli ones).


LY744.
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 14):
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's get some things straight:



the F-16 in the picture is NOT a block 50, it's a block 30 made sometime in '87-'89.

it is most certainly not an F-16C as those are single seaters

AFHOkie is talking about the US Viper in the first post, not the Israeli. THe US Viper is an F-16CJ Block 52, serial 92-3880, it even as the CJ targeting pod underneath.

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LY744
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 18):
AFHOkie is talking about the US Viper in the first post, not the Israeli. THe US Viper is an F-16CJ Block 52, serial 92-3880, it even as the CJ targeting pod underneath.

No dispute there, I was referring to another reply however.  Wink


LY744.
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Duce50Boom
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:59 am

Thanks for the info LY. And IIRC the 4 grey strips are part of the IFF, specifically so it can interrogate civil aircraft's transponders
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:00 am

Indeed they are...the F/A-18 has them now too. It takes IFF to a higher level, not just reading friendly signals, but also interrogating the enemy's aircraft if he happens to be squaking. Pretty neat system.

DeltaGuy
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LY744
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:23 am

So is that like the IFF mod the F-16ADF got back in the day?

LY744.
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Duce50Boom
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:38 am

  Not a clue, but sounds cool. Does it work on their mode 4 equivalent or their mode 3/A?

[Edited 2005-07-25 02:41:44]
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:49 am

Mode 4 IIRC. I used to work at Cecil Field here in Jax, they were doing the mods on the "Legacy" F/A-18's that didn't have it coming from the factory.

DeltaGuy
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Duce50Boom
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:16 am

Thanks Delta. Anyone know if the 15s have this? Both albino and mudhen
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:40 am

Good question Lionel, I looked back at some shots on here and found a flat plate-style antenna forward of the canopy, in the same position as on the -16 and -18, although it doesn't protrude into 4 blades as the other aircraft do. These photos are more recent, you won't see it on the earlier shots of these birds near as I can tell.

Albino...

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Mudhen...

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DeltaGuy
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Duce50Boom
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:56 am

I checked with some other folks and the box on the 15s is an ADF antenna.

Lionel Hutz
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DeltaGuy
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:21 pm

So it is an ADF antenna then....shows how much I know about crossing into the blue  Silly

DeltaGuy
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USAF757300
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:40 pm

The Royal Singapore Air Force also has some later block F-16s with the "hunchback" they train with the USAF here at Luke AFB, AZ (LF). I see them everyday. They belong to the 425th Fighter Sq (Black Widows). They have USAF markings but belong to the RSAF, but they also do have the Singapore logo at the end of the fuselage.




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RSAF also has some earlier blocks at "LF" aswell.


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Lt-AWACS
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:09 am

Not to be a stickler but RSAF is Republic of Singapore Air Force, not Royal  Smile


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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andrej
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RE: What's The Difference Here?-F-16C's

Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:07 pm

Hey guys,

I found this good F-16 web-page www.f-16.net

it is a great source bank in regards of F16!!

Cheers,
Andrej

BTW, have my copy of F4:AF and its....great!!!

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