The English Sunday Times is reporting that on the 6th September Israeli F15's blew up a cache of nuclear fuel bound for Syria and that Syria's formidable air defences went dead as they crossed the boarder. How they do that?
The paper also notes that the defences are better than Iran has, so I guess Israel won't wait to long before it pays them a visit. What a crazy world we lie in

An interesting note.

Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): How they do that?

Some sort of covert intelligence / special forces type of operation?

Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): The paper also notes that the defences are better than Iran has, so I guess Israel won't wait to long before it pays them a visit.

Certainly more concentrated around the Damascus area and towards the Israeli border, but better? No, I don't think think so. Iran's iHawks and TorM1 are a good match compared to SA-6s and older systems. As Iran also spends a lot more on defense and development, I would say that Iran's air defense system is a lot more extensive and sophisticated.

Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): What a crazy world we lie in

Otherwise it would be boring, wouldn't it?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 1):

May you live in interesting times.

It seems that anyone opposing to the US policies has some kind of nuclear program just like Saddams non existent WMDs. We do live in interesting times of twisted facts.

Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): Syria's formidable air defences went dead as they crossed the boarder.

Strange that this is only revealed now, considering that the BBC reported the 6th of september that Syria actually did fire back. Or more to the point, Syria said they fired back. But since no independant journalists where there, it is hard to tell who is telling the truth. Of course the fact that the F-15s managed to penetrate so deeply into Syria does say something.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6981674.stm


Allegedly the planes flew over the Mediterranean and crossed the border into Syria north of Lebanon. Part of the way might have been through Turkey as Ha'aretz is reporting that Turkey found Israeli F-15 droptanks near the Syrian border.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/902073.html


Moving on to the Jerusalem Post, they are saying this transport was actually weapons for Hizbullah. Quite nasty, don't get me wrong, but not quite as bad as nuclear weapons/components. Assuming of course no nuclear weapons where being sent to Hizbullah, but I think that would be a reasonable assumption.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


Without wishing to drag people away from this forum, I would like to point out that at the forum of Air Forces Monthly there is a very interesting thread going on about this engagement. That's where I got above information and links from. Hope the mods do not mind me plugging this forum?

Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): and that Syria's formidable air defences went dead as they crossed the boarder.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 4): Of course the fact that the F-15s managed to penetrate so deeply into Syria does say something.

Could those be attributable to rumoured latest versions of powerful AESA radars which could be used offensively to disable opponents' air defences? - or were other Israeli EW assets near the area?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 1): I would say that Iran's air defense system is a lot more extensive and sophisticated.

I don't know about what they have surrounding their nuke sites... but their defensive systems along the Iraq boarder were not impressive.

And lets just say that the operators weren't too smart, either! Far too willing to give us all kinds of information!

On the other hand, the Syrian boarder was much more lethal. The cat-and-mouse game was more complex and professional. Flying the Syrian boarder was always more dangerous than the Iranian boarder.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 3): It seems that anyone opposing to the US policies has some kind of nuclear program just like Saddams non existent WMDs. We do live in interesting times of twisted facts.

The connection between what survives oAQ Khan's network, North Korea, Syria and Iran is well documented.

It's not clear if the nuclear material - which was unloaded off of a North Korean ship in Latakia, Syria - was actually intended for Syria, or if it was eventually bound for Iran. North Korean military technology (especially missile technology) has frequently pasted through Syria, on its way to Iran.

-UH60

No one knows for certain what happened that night between Syria and Israel.

Every thing that has been said in public has been pure speculation. The Israelis have kept a total silence on the story. Even their usually gossipy press this time proved very careful not to spill any beans, and infact relied on leaks originating in the US and the UK for their reports on what might have happened.

the Syrians, on the other hand, issued their usual standard type statement talking about Israeli planes entering Syrian airspace before being driven back by Syrian air defences.

The interesting novelty in the story, however, was the Syrian acknowledgement, for the first time on such occasions, that the israeli planes had actually " dropped munitions " on Syrian territory before they were forced to flee. of course, the Syrian official story had to say that the ordnance dropped by the Israeli planes landed in some empty space and left no casualties or damage.

That Syrian " hint " on its own was enough to provide the clue, however, that what happehed that night was far more significant than the more usual Israeli "flypast" over Syrian territories. the Israeli Air Force had on several occasions during the past few years penetrated Syrian airspace and flown over several vital positions deep inside Syria.

Indeed, on one occasion Israeli F-15s flew over the summer Presidential Residence of Syrian President Bashar Assad in the port city of Latakia and broke the sound barrier shattering all the glass of the place while the President was spending his holidays there. on another occasion, the Israelis flew over the Syrian military HQ in the capital Damascus, and equally shattered the glass windows in the neighbourhood when they broke the sound barrier in what was clearly a test for the Syrian air defence system and its potential response.

What happened in this most recent incursion was quite clearly very different.

This was obviously a major strategic strike against an as yet undefined target in an area deep inside Syria close to the Turkish borders up in the far north of the country.

Whatever that target may have been. and I am sure we will find out sooner or later, it must have been worth the Israeli effort. Added to that the fact that the Israeli operation had shown yet again that the the Israeli Air Force can still operate with relative impunity over Syria, a situation which seems destined to continue at least for the foreseeable future.

































f

wow, this is getting better than James Bond.   

The Times article also said the Israeli government spoke/asked/consulted the White house before taking action, can we see this happening before they pay Iran a visit?

> Every thing that has been said in public has been pure speculation.

Or disinformation, plain and with political agenda.

sPh

Quoting OD720 (Reply 3): It seems that anyone opposing to the US policies has some kind of nuclear program just like Saddams non existent WMDs. We do live in interesting times of twisted facts.

The Israelis take action and you drag the US into this?

Quoting OD720 (Reply 3): It seems that anyone opposing to the US policies has some kind of nuclear program just like Saddams non existent WMDs.

Why don't we ask the Kurds of Northern Iraq about that?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 1): Iran's iHawks

About as effective today as the Iranian F-14s.

Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 9): The Times article also said the Israeli government spoke/asked/consulted the White house before taking action, can we see this happening before they pay Iran a visit?

Yes, they have to overfly Iraq to get their, and will need approval to pass through that airspace form the USAF.

Quoting Hunterson (Reply 7): This was obviously a major strategic strike against an as yet undefined target in an area deep inside Syria close to the Turkish borders up in the far north of the country.

The fact the Isreali AF was able to fly F-15s and F-16s more than 350nm over Syrian airspace, and back, to do what they needed to do is testomoont to the Isreali's capabilities (and that of Syria, too).

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12): to do what they needed to do is testomoont to the Isreali's capabilities (and that of Syria, too).

Definitely speaks volumes on the latter!

Some more info on the Israeli raid inside Syria .

This info has been gathered from relatively reliable sources and has very little to do with the mass of speculations, guess work and disinformation , not to mention "PsycOps ", which have ruled the waves over this issue in the past few days.

The Israeli operation included the use of no less than 16 combat aircraft. The main strike force comprised 8 F-15I Strike Eagle fighter-bombers. Top cover was provided by 8 F-15 Eagle air-superiority fighters, with other reports suggesting that up to 12 of that type were actually used to provide defensive duties for the attacking force. No air-to-air refueling was required, but AWACs,ELINT and SIGINT aircraft were used ( probably Israeli-modified boeing-707s ). to jam Syrian air defences and control the theatre of operations.

The mission also included the deployment of "special forces ", which had been apparently landed in the " target area " several hours before the air strike to provide battlefield RECCE, as well as Laser targetting. It is still not clear whether those forces were heliborne, or transported by land, either from Turkey or even from Iraq !!

What is also known, so far, is that the whole operation lasted less than 2 hours, during which the Syrian Air Defence system was virtually blinded and paralyzed. The only fire which faced the Israeli aircraft was from local AAA and SAM batteries which were acting on the spot and without any coordination with the central command structures. Needless to say, no Syrian attempt was made to launch any aircraft to intercept the Israeli intruders.

This was quite obviously a strategic interdiction air strike in the classic sense of the word. It is extremely doubtful that the target had anything to do with some secret "nuclear" facility that the Syrians had been trying to maintain with the help of North Korea. No one in their right mind ( and neither the Syrians, nor the North Koreansm and not the Iranians to that matter are that naive ) would try to hide a nuclear installation in an " Agricultural " facility.

It seems that to all probability the Israelis attacked a CBW ( Chemical/Biological Weapons ) factory , which was also probably engaged in the manufacture of solid rocket fuel for upgraded SCUD-C ( Range 600km ) and SCUD-D (Range 750km. ) missiles which are reportedly being assembled locally along with their CW Warheads in a tri-lateral cooperation programme betwwen North Korea, Syria and Iran.

Whatever the case maybe, it was certainly a target that the Israelis could not wait to attack and destroy. Who knows, it might have been a masterful "pre-emptive" strike. or the first shot in the next war that a lot of people have been predictng in the Middle East for quite a while now.

This may be a bit dated, and I have not looked for more recent materials (so will defer if this hasn't transpired), but hasn't Iran finally acquired the SA-10?

http://www.defense-update.com/2005/1.../irans-point-defense-upgraded.html

On a second note, do we have any idea where the alleged strike took place? Perhaps a "before and after" satellite view could tell us something.

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 11): The Israelis take action and you drag the US into this?

If you were following the news, you would have known that the claims about nuclear BS came from the US and not from Israel.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12): Why don't we ask the Kurds of Northern Iraq about that?

And the US chose to ignore Hans Blix report that Iraq no longer had WMDs but I guess that's okay for you.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 16): Why don't we ask the Kurds of Northern Iraq about that? And the US chose to ignore Hans Blix report that Iraq no longer had WMDs but I guess that's okay for you.

I'm guessing this strike in the desert wasn't aimed at an aspirin plant. Hans Blix=not-very-credible. It is ironic, given your response, that the very same WMD's may have been targeted this time.

Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 9): can we see this happening before they pay Iran a visit?

Maybe somebody else might do that.....
France: Prepare For War With Iran (by MaverickM11 Sep 17 2007 in Non Aviation)

Quoting RC135X (Reply 15): This may be a bit dated, and I have not looked for more recent materials (so will defer if this hasn't transpired), but hasn't Iran finally acquired the SA-10?

That would complicate matters.

Here's an interesting article that certainly adds fuel to the speculative fire:
'Dozens died in Syrian-Iranian chemical weapons experiment'
Of course, there will be those who flame the source....

Quote: Proof of cooperation between Iran and Syria in the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction was brought to light Monday in a Jane's Magazine report that dozens of Iranian engineers and 15 Syrian officers were killed in a July 23 accident in Syria. According to the report, cited by Channel 10, the joint Syrian-Iranian team was attempting to mount a chemical warhead on a scud missile when the explosion occurred, spreading lethal chemical agents, including sarin nerve gas and VX gas. The factory was created specifically for the purposes of altering ballistic missiles to carry chemical payloads, the magazine report claimed. Reports of the accident were circulated at the time, however, no details were released by the Syrian government, and there were no hints of an Iranian connection. The report comes on the heels of criticism leveled by the Syrains at the United States, accusing it of spreading "false" claims of Syrian nuclear activity and cooperation with North Korea to excuse an alleged Israeli air incursion over the country this month.

Quoting Hunterson (Reply 14): It is extremely doubtful that the target had anything to do with some secret "nuclear" facility that the Syrians had been trying to maintain with the help of North Korea. No one in their right mind ( and neither the Syrians, nor the North Koreansm and not the Iranians to that matter are that naive ) would try to hide a nuclear installation in an " Agricultural " facility.

There was a North Korean tanker who had just docked in port three days prior to the strike - it was "officially" listed as carrying "concrete" and North Korea was the first one to protest outrage against the strike.

Quoting Hunterson (Reply 14): It seems that to all probability the Israelis attacked a CBW ( Chemical/Biological Weapons ) factory , which was also probably engaged in the manufacture of solid rocket fuel for upgraded SCUD-C ( Range 600km ) and SCUD-D (Range 750km. ) missiles which are reportedly being assembled locally along with their CW Warheads in a tri-lateral cooperation programme betwwen North Korea, Syria and Iran.

Oh yeah, there are no WMD's in Syria, Hans Blix and Saddam Huesein said so....

They also said no WMD in Iraq....

Quoting Hunterson (Reply 14): neither the Syrians, nor the North Koreansm and not the Iranians to that matter are that naive

I would not jump to that conclusion.........  

Quoting OD720 (Reply 16): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12): Why don't we ask the Kurds of Northern Iraq about that? And the US chose to ignore Hans Blix report that Iraq no longer had WMDs but I guess that's okay for you.

Hans Blix, and the UN, for that matter, has ZERO creditability. BTW, The UK, France, US, Spain, and even Germany didn't believe Blix, either.

But, for all we know right now, the WMDs Isreal attacked in Syria, may have been Iraqi WMDs. The rumor that Hussan sent his WMD program to Syria just before the war has been around since 2003.

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 17): Hans Blix=not-very-credible

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22): Hans Blix, and the UN, for that matter, has ZERO creditability

He said there were no WMDs in Iraq and he was proven right. That's called non credible in your dictionary?

Quoting OD720 (Reply 23): He said there were no WMDs in Iraq and he was proven right. That's called non credible in your dictionary?

From the Isralie point of view it is always better to shoot first than rather have nuclear or Sarin tipped Scuds landing in your capital. This is an subject you have to assume that all actions taken by Syria and Iran are hostile. Israel can't afford to wait for the UN to get to the bottom of this. Rather be alive and hated than dead and hated.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 23): He said there were no WMDs in Iraq and he was proven right.

I could be wrong, but that's not what I remember. What I recall (this is from memory so I'm not saying it is precisely what happened) Mr. Blix said his team had not found WMDs, but that they needed more time to ascertain what happened to the WMDs that Iraq did have back in the late 80's/early 90's. Everyone knew Iraq had WMDs (just ask the Kurds) and a nuclear development program at one time. The problem, from what I remember, is that no one, including Mr. Blix, could figure out what happened to them.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 24): From the Isralie point of view it is always better to shoot first than rather have nuclear or Sarin tipped Scuds landing in your capital. This is an subject you have to assume that all actions taken by Syria and Iran are hostile. Israel can't afford to wait for the UN to get to the bottom of this. Rather be alive and hated than dead and hated.

I totally agree with you and I'm with the Israelis on this. Like most Lebanese, I have zero sympathy towards the Syrians. In times of high tensions like these, such actions can not be blamed nor can be condemned.

But what I really find amusing is the fact that, all that oppose the US policies in the world, are found to have some sort of WMD program. Even though Hans Blix clearly stated there were non found, he was totally ignored and named non credible.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 26): Even though Hans Blix clearly stated there were non found, he was totally ignored and named non credible.

You see that is what bothers me, all worldwide intelligent agencies took it as gospel that Saddam had a WMD program but what happened to it. Blix's group even admits it did not find all they want and the after math of the invasion no huge quantities were found with the the U.S. encumbered to look for them. Do not take it as a absolute and assume that Saddam was bluffing. They went somewhere, maybe back to Russia to hide their hand in this enterprise. We can't assume anything, we must find out for sure and verify., anyone who ass/u/me's they did not exist is betting with someones else's money. If we lose on this deal the consequences will be grave especially for your country being really close to Israel.

The associated press has picked up the story the Jerusalem Post ran earlier:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297361,00.html

I think it is a good time to remind ourselves of a few relevant and quite simple facts.


First of all, we should remember that WMDs do not just mean Nuclear weapons, but also include equally lethal and destructive Chemical and Biological agents, as well as their Missile delivaery systems.


Secondly, no one who knows the "ABC " of tne military balance of forces in the Middle East would dispute the fact that both Syria and Iran have been engaged , for many years now , in various programmas and activities, on a bilateral basis, and in cooperation with other third parties such as North Korea, aimed at developing SSM and CBW capabilities.

Thirdly, this debate should most certainly concentrate on the military and strategic aspects of the issue, and not the politics.

I ,personally, have not yet come across anybody who would feel comfortable with the idea of living with a Nuclear - Powered Iran , or a Chemical/ Biological Powered Syria , with both regimes equally enjoying the " services" of a whole array of Ballistic SSMs with ranges up to , and perhaps more than 1000kms.


Maybe it is time, for all of us, to put the whole arguement about the rights and wrongs of the Iraq War to one side , for a moment, and concentrate instead on some rae and present threats and dangers posed by other sources.

And if a Nuclear-Powered Iran , and its Chemical/Biological - Powered Syria, with their North Korean - supplied SCUD-Cs and SCUD-Ds, not to mention locally-produced Shehab-1/2/3s, and Fajr-1/2/3s, and Zelzals ...etc. are not such a clear and present thrat to the whole of the Middle East region, with their Hizbollah allies in Lebanon, then I do not know what a threat is.

I beleive that the time has come to recgnize the simple fact that it is small and peace-loving nations ,like Lebanon and Jordan, who always end up paying the price for the adventures of regimes such as Syria, Iran and Iraq under Saddam .

The Iraq War which thankfully succeeded in getting rid of Saddam and his horrible regime, but tragically failed in its attempt to build a better Iraq for its people must not be used as an excuse for non-action against other threats that face the region. Just take a look at what is happening in Lebanon , and what the Syrians and the Iranians and their Hizbollah allies and their terrorst proxies are doing their , to realize what the score is.

At the end of the day, if the Syrians and the iranians and their Hizbollah surrogates want to fight the Israelis, then why on earth theh do not wage their lousy war from the Syrian-Israeli borders?

Equally, maybe the Israelis at last have found the "right address" and went after the correct targets when they launched their air strike against Syria, instead of their usual, and tediously-boring punishments of Lebanon.

Couldn't happen soon enough for me, to both parties mentioned. If I could pickle 'em myself I would. I don't give a rodents rear if it's fair nr not, we can not allow them to have nuclear weapons, period. Life ain't fair fellas, and no nukes for you.  

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 30): Couldn't happen soon enough for me, to both parties mentioned. If I could pickle 'em myself I would. I don't give a rodents rear if it's fair nr not, we can not allow them to have nuclear weapons, period. Life ain't fair fellas, and no nukes for you

This is a rather strange, not to say even odd statement to make.

First, it is not at all clear who is the message addressed to. Who are the "you " supposed to mean?

Secondly, one would have thought and hoped that this was supposed to be a civilized, informed and reasonbly rational debate about an issue of vital strategic and military importance to all concerned, so what is the point of such comments, and what useful purpose do they serve?


And perhaps more importantly, has the writer even read what was written before he/she decided to reply to it in such a manner?


Please, let us try to stay serious and proper in dealing with such subjects of Life and Death, and War and Peace.

Perhaps that would be far more useful and constructive for everyone concerned !!!

Quoting OD720 (Reply 16): you would have known that the claims about nuclear BS came from the US and not from Israel.

Looks like this is not BS now.

Reported in the Sunday Times:
Israelis seized nuclear material in Syrian raid

Quote: Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem. The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say. They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons. Israeli special forces had been gathering intelligence for several months in Syria, according to Israeli sources. They located the nuclear material at a compound near Dayr az-Zwar in the north.

I think this was a test for attacking Iran too.

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 17): I'm guessing this strike in the desert wasn't aimed at an aspirin plant. Hans Blix=not-very-credible. It is ironic, given your response, that the very same WMD's may have been targeted this time.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22): Hans Blix, and the UN, for that matter, has ZERO creditability. BTW, The UK, France, US, Spain, and even Germany didn't believe Blix, either.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 27): You see that is what bothers me, all worldwide intelligent agencies took it as gospel that Saddam had a WMD program but what happened to it. Blix's group even admits it did not find all they want and the after math of the invasion no huge quantities were found with the the U.S. encumbered to look for them. Do not take it as a absolute and assume that Saddam was bluffing. They went somewhere, maybe back to Russia to hide their hand in this enterprise. We can't assume anything, we must find out for sure and verify., anyone who ass/u/me's they did not exist is betting with someones else's money. If we lose on this deal the consequences will be grave especially for your country being really close to Israel.

OMG, you guys still believe in these fairytales? You guys got some nerve!

Dutch news website nu.nl has an article which says Israel confirmed the assault:

http://www.nu.nl/news/1257645/23/Isr...t_militaire_aanval_op_Syri%EB.html

sorry Dutch only

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 36): sorry Dutch only

Here's Flightglobal's take for "general patronage".....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-silence-on-syria-air-strike.html

thanks for the link!

interesting they suggest F-16's were used, while we alreade 'know' that this is not the case?

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 25): could be wrong, but that's not what I remember. What I recall (this is from memory so I'm not saying it is precisely what happened) Mr. Blix said his team had not found WMDs, but that they needed more time to ascertain what happened to the WMDs that Iraq did have back in the late 80's/early 90's. Everyone knew Iraq had WMDs (just ask the Kurds) and a nuclear development program at one time. The problem, from what I remember, is that no one, including Mr. Blix, could figure out what happened to them.

You are not wrong, my friend.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 35): Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 17): I'm guessing this strike in the desert wasn't aimed at an aspirin plant. Hans Blix=not-very-credible. It is ironic, given your response, that the very same WMD's may have been targeted this time. Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22): Hans Blix, and the UN, for that matter, has ZERO creditability. BTW, The UK, France, US, Spain, and even Germany didn't believe Blix, either. Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 27): You see that is what bothers me, all worldwide intelligent agencies took it as gospel that Saddam had a WMD program but what happened to it. Blix's group even admits it did not find all they want and the after math of the invasion no huge quantities were found with the the U.S. encumbered to look for them. Do not take it as a absolute and assume that Saddam was bluffing. They went somewhere, maybe back to Russia to hide their hand in this enterprise. We can't assume anything, we must find out for sure and verify., anyone who ass/u/me's they did not exist is betting with someones else's money. If we lose on this deal the consequences will be grave especially for your country being really close to Israel. OMG, you guys still believe in these fairytales? You guys got some nerve!

Mr. F27Friendship, I spent almost as much time in SAC as you have been on this Earth. To me, it seems we are not e the ones who believes in fairytails. The world is an unfair place to live in. You cannot trust everyone, nor believe them. There is a lot of thought (and possibly some proof) the Iraqi WMDs are buried in the Syrian desert. Even Russia, France, and Germany (along with the UK and US) suspect this. No one seems to dispute it, and Isreal is keeping a very close eye on Syria.

Quoting Hunterson (Reply 31): This is a rather strange, not to say even odd statement to make. First, it is not at all clear who is the message addressed to. Who are the "you " supposed to mean? Secondly, one would have thought and hoped that this was supposed to be a civilized, informed and reasonably rational debate about an issue of vital strategic and military importance to all concerned, so what is the point of such comments, and what useful purpose do they serve? And perhaps more importantly, has the writer even read what was written before he/she decided to reply to it in such a manner? Please, let us try to stay serious and proper in dealing with such subjects of Life and Death, and War and Peace. Perhaps that would be far more useful and constructive for everyone concerned !!!

Take 2 aspirin and call the IDF in the morning. Iran is next. B-2's from FL60. Bush is going to tie this to Iran. IMO, this is why we see all the 40 year old Russian Bears limping around. Sort of "Don't bomb the Russian Reactor, or else BS. Bush is going to do what ever he and Dicky want over the next year. He does not care one bit what others see the US as. He is on a Holy Christian Crusade for god sake, wake up!! Pelosi will never allow impeachment proceedings prior to Nov 08.

Face it. Build your bunker, and stock it with irradiated food items for a nice shelf life. I'd suggest a Kimber Classic 45 ACP with around 1,000 round. All solid core. Then a AR-15 with at least 3,000 rounds armour piercing with a Nikon Monarch Scope (6-24x50 sf m bdc) mounted.

And when the fighting starts the Colonial Powers will let by gones be by gones and meet us in the sand.   

Quoting OD720 (Reply 23): He said there were no WMDs in Iraq and he was proven right.

No he got lucky, even a clock is right twice a day.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 25): What I recall (this is from memory so I'm not saying it is precisely what happened) Mr. Blix said his team had not found WMDs, but that they needed more time to ascertain what happened to the WMDs that Iraq did have back in the late 80's/early 90's. Everyone knew Iraq had WMDs (just ask the Kurds) and a nuclear development program at one time.

Add to the fact that Saddam was kicking them in and out of his country on a routine basis, and refusing to grant them access to some facilities.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 40): suggest a Kimber Classic 45 ACP with around 1,000 round.

A somewhat sarcastic post there in reply 40 but a very nice gun.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 40): Take 2 aspirin and call the IDF in the morning. Iran is next. B-2's from FL60. Bush is going to tie this to Iran. IMO, this is why we see all the 40 year old Russian Bears limping around. Sort of "Don't bomb the Russian Reactor, or else BS. Bush is going to do what ever he and Dicky want over the next year. He does not care one bit what others see the US as. He is on a Holy Christian Crusade for god sake, wake up!! Pelosi will never allow impeachment proceedings prior to Nov 08. Face it. Build your bunker, and stock it with irradiated food items for a nice shelf life. I'd suggest a Kimber Classic 45 ACP with around 1,000 round. All solid core. Then a AR-15 with at least 3,000 rounds armour piercing with a Nikon Monarch Scope (6-24x50 sf m bdc) mounted. And when the fighting starts the Colonial Powers will let by gones be by gones and meet us in the sand. taekwondo

This is an unpaid and unsolicited political announcement, and pure BS.

If the US ever decides to spank Iran, it will have nothing to do with the IDF action in Syria, nor will antique Russian TU-95s stop us.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 35): OMG, you guys still believe in these fairytales? You guys got some nerve!

Okay I am wrong, so I hope your grandchildren enjoy living under Sharia Law in the Netherlands. You sound just like the democrats in this country who believe on January 21'st 2009 everything will be like it was before 9/11. Birds will sing, Osama will make peace with us, the poor will not be poor and there will be no evil in the world. It was all George Bush's fault, he is evil and the main reason for all the hate in the world. Bin Ladin is guy who just needs a hug and Saddam was a guy who made the trains run on time and Hitler loved dogs. When you stick your head in the sand it makes it easier for others to give you an enima. To preserve and live in peace you must prepare for war. Any time the U.S. was attacked we had forces drawn down living under the allusion we were at peace with everybody. During these times individuals who saw the threat were always ridiculed as alarmists and war mongers or not politically correct. The U.S. Military is at war and America is at the mall.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 39): Mr. F27Friendship, I spent almost as much time in SAC as you have been on this Earth. To me, it seems we are not e the ones who believes in fairytails. The world is an unfair place to live in. You cannot trust everyone, nor believe them. There is a lot of thought (and possibly some proof) the Iraqi WMDs are buried in the Syrian desert. Even Russia, France, and Germany (along with the UK and US) suspect this. No one seems to dispute it, and Isreal is keeping a very close eye on Syria.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 43): Okay I am wrong, so I hope your grandchildren enjoy living under Sharia Law in the Netherlands. You sound just like the democrats in this country who believe on January 21'st 2009 everything will be like it was before 9/11. Birds will sing, Osama will make peace with us, the poor will not be poor and there will be no evil in the world. It was all George Bush's fault, he is evil and the main reason for all the hate in the world. Bin Ladin is guy who just needs a hug and Saddam was a guy who made the trains run on time and Hitler loved dogs. When you stick your head in the sand it makes it easier for others to give you an enima. To preserve and live in peace you must prepare for war. Any time the U.S. was attacked we had forces drawn down living under the allusion we were at peace with everybody. During these times individuals who saw the threat were always ridiculed as alarmists and war mongers or not politically correct. The U.S. Military is at war and America is at the mall.

Dear friends. At the beginning I was personally in favour of the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam.

Nevertheless, since the war "ended" 600.000 Iraqi's died and no WMD's were found. So it's a bit coarse to say the least to still dare to boast about invading other countries to maintain our security. The US really really messed up and 600.000 (six hundred thousand!!!) people paid with their lives so you guys could sleep better And do you sleep a bit better? I don;t think so, as the next war is being planned and new fear is being created.

I'm not saying we should be naive or stupid and ofcourse always keep an eye on possible threats. All I'm saying is it would be appropriate for some to tone down a little considering the facts I mentioned.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22): But, for all we know right now, the WMDs Isreal attacked in Syria, may have been Iraqi WMDs. The rumor that Hussan sent his WMD program to Syria just before the war has been around since 2003.

I distinctly recall news reports just prior to the invasion of Iraq that Israeli intelligence was saying that Saddam was moving all his WMD material to Syria. We also have a very credible former Iraqi general saying that he helped organize the move. As others have said, EVERY intelligence agency in the world believed prior to the invasion believed that Saddam had WMD; even Hans Blix acknowledges that he believed Saddam had them but didn't know what became of them. Does anyone truly believe that the world would really be a safer place with Saddam still in power? The results in Iraq so far have fallen short of expectations, but the whole story isn't written yet. If you go back to 1947-1950 newspapers you can find similar doom and gloom stories about Germany and Japan. But if we use poor results in Iraq to let Iran develop nuclear weapons there will be hell to pay, literally.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45): But if we use poor results in Iraq to let Iran develop nuclear weapons there will be hell to pay, literally.

  

Quoting OD720 (Reply 3): It seems that anyone opposing to the US policies has some kind of nuclear program just like Saddams non existent WMDs. We do live in interesting times of twisted facts.

Oh Please give it a rest!!!!

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 44): Nevertheless, since the war "ended" 600.000 Iraqi's died and no WMD's were found. So it's a bit coarse to say the least to still dare to boast about invading other countries to maintain our security. The US really really messed up and 600.000 (six hundred thousand!!!) people paid with their lives so you guys could sleep better And do you sleep a bit better? I don;t think so, as the next war is being planned and new fear is being created.

Were did you get those figures? Since the war ended 600,000 Iraqi's dead I wounder how many were by their own people and not the US military or I would just like to know how those figures came up since the US military doesnt keep track of enemy losses.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 44): I'm not saying we should be naive or stupid and ofcourse always keep an eye on possible threats. All I'm saying is it would be appropriate for some to tone down a little considering the facts I mentioned.

I do agree with Toning things down I personally think war should be the last option unfortunatly alot of these countries are not giving anyone alot of choice. If anyone if looking for Israel to change its policies and set back and watch countries develope nuclear weapons that boarder them "dont hold your breath" and I dont blame them.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45): I distinctly recall news reports

was that FOX news?

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 45): If you go back to 1947-1950 newspapers you can find similar doom and gloom stories about Germany and Japan.

after the war ended, there wasn't terror and mayhem in the streets of Germany and Japan for another 5 years

Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 47): Were did you get those figures? Since the war ended 600,000 Iraqi's dead I wounder how many were by their own people and not the US military or I would just like to know how those figures came up since the US military doesnt keep track of enemy losses.

I'm not saying the US military killed 600,000 Iraqi's. It is a fact that 600,000 Iraqi's got killed since the war ended in all kinds of ways. I think it's not an overstatement when saying the US is responsible for the situation in Iraq in the past years.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 47): after the war ended, there wasn't terror and mayhem in the streets of Germany and Japan for another 5 years

No, there was something much more sinister in the form of starvation, refugees, an industrial base and public-services infrastructure that was completely obliterated (and which had to be built from scratch).

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 47): It is a fact that 600,000 Iraqi's got killed since the war ended

It's a "fact"? Do you have a reliable source? (And I don't mean the BBC.)