Aircraft That Define Military Events

L-188 · Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:03 am

Hi guys.

I was just coming up with a list of aircraft types that will always be linked to historic events. I don't mean to say that they simply where there, but they are so linked with the event, war, battle that anytime you mention aviation in that regard they immediately pop to mind.

Anyway here are the ones I came up with.

Spitfire-Battle of Britain
WWI Germans-Trimotor
WWI Allies-Sopwith Camel (Thanks Snoopy)
Vietnam-UH-1 Cobra
Poles ti Raid- B24
Tokyo Raid-B25
C-130 Khe-San and Entebbe
The Hump-C47
Falklands-Harrier
Korea-H47 (Not really for it's war actions, but it's role at the start of every episode of MASH)
Lancaster-DamBuster Raid
Ju-87 Gukika

hunterson · Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:01 am

What about the following:

1- The Mirage-3 ( Israel) and the 6-day June 67 War.
2- The MiG-21 ( Egypt / Syria ) and the Yom Kippur October 73 War.
3- The Super Etendard ( Argentina ) and the Falklands ( Malvinas ) War.
4- The Mirage F-1 ( Iraq ) and the Iraq-Iran War.
5- The Mil Mi-24 ( USSR ) and the 1st. Afghan War.

I can assure you there are still plenty more.

bhmbaglock · Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:03 am

U2 - Francis Gary Powers/Cold War
B-29 - The Bomb x2
P-51 - WWII air war in Europe
Hindenberg - Lakehurst destruction
C-141 - return of US POWs after Vietnam

Stealthz · Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:06 am

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
WWI Germans-Trimotor

Did you mean the Fokker Dreidecker (Triplane), the Trimotor was a much larger transport aircraft that came along much later.

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Vietnam-UH-1 Cobra

Damn I am getting picky but do you mean the AH-1 Cobra or the UH-1 Iroquois "Huey", IMO the Huey is the more iconic aircraft of the Vietnam war... I know my dad sitting in the next room would say DHC-4 Caribou but he might be biased as that was how he spent his time in that SE Asian "paradise".

Cheers

[Edited 2008-02-08 00:07:56]

highlander0 · Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:54 pm

A-10 - 1st Gulf War?
B-52- Operation Enduring Freedom & 2nd Gulf War (seeing them lift off from Fairford on TV and then later seeing the results striking targets in downtown Baghdad)?

MD11Engineer · Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:20 pm

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
The Hump-C47

Actually the prefered aircraft there was the C-46

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Spitfire-Battle of Britain

Most enemy aircraft got shot down by Hurricanes

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Ju-87 Gukika

the Stuka

Berlin airlift: C-47 and C-54

Jan

sprout5199 · Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:28 pm

B-52---Vietnam, Gulf War 1&2.

F-86---Mig-15----Korea

Zero(don't know the Japanese name for it)--- WW2 in the Pac for Japan

F-4 Corsair--- WW2 in the Pac for the US

F-4 Phantom--- Vietnam

E-4A NEACP---Cold War

Dan in Jupiter

moo · Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:51 pm

Quoting Hunterson (Reply 1):
3- The Super Etendard ( Argentina ) and the Falklands ( Malvinas ) War.

No, the Harrier definitely for the Falklands conflict - most people would have at least *some* idea of what the British flew in that war, while most would look at you blankly if you asked what the Argentinians flew.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
Most enemy aircraft got shot down by Hurricanes

Doesn't matter, the Spitfire is the most iconic of the battle and that is why it is remembered.

David L · Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:08 pm

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Falklands-Harrier

... and the Vulcan.

dragon6172 · Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:25 pm

How about all of the Vals, Kates, and Zero's at Pearl Harbor?

N328KF · Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:41 pm

Operation Vengeance -- P-38 Lightning

TheSonntag · Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:10 pm

B-17: Other bombers came first, but this bomber really changed the shape of Germany.

rc135x · Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:31 pm

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
I was just coming up with a list of aircraft types that will always be linked to historic events.

Although the deHavilland Comet was the first turbojet to enter airline service on 2 May 1952 (followed by the Tupolev Tu-104 on 15 Sep 1956), the icon of jet airline travel was the Boeing 707 (first service 26 Oct 58). Although it took place on 7 Feb 1964, the arrival of the Beatles in New York aboard a Pan American 707 helped define the British invasion of America and the mainstream of rock and roll.

bingo · Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:42 pm

It’s not a fixed wing, but I think the UH-60 Blackhawk really defined the battle of Mogadishu aka Blackhawk Down. It was then that the US Military realized it was ill equipped to fight in urban combat scenarios. Some would argue that these lessons were forgotten going into Iraq about 8 years later, but ultimately I feel that the Battle of Mogadishu has had a huge impact on how we fight wars in the air and on the ground.

FlagshipAZ · Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:51 pm

How about the P-3 Orion? The bird that was forced down over mainland China some years back,
by a kamikaze Chinese pilot. A event that I certainly remember making the news for sure.
The SR-71 Blackbird. Set a speed record from Los Angeles to Washington DC in just over an hour.
Do these 2 events count?
Regards.

N328KF · Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:03 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
B-17: Other bombers came first, but this bomber really changed the shape of Germany.

Figuratively and literally, it seems.

rtfm · Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:48 am

Quoting Highlander0 (Reply 4):
A-10 - 1st Gulf War?

Actually I would have thought that the iconic a/c of the first Gulf War would have been the F117....

MD11Engineer · Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:57 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
B-17: Other bombers came first, but this bomber really changed the shape of Germany.

I'd say that the Lancaster and the Halifax were at least equals.

Jan

columba · Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:49 am

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Vietnam-UH-1 Cobra

UH 1 of course, but also F-4 Phantom II and the F-105

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
WWI Germans-Trimotor

I think you mean the tri-plane. The Ju 52 3m came much later

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 2):
Hindenberg - Lakehurst destruction

Hindenburg was a civilian airship and not a military event.

XT6Wagon · Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:15 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Hindenburg was a civilian airship and not a military event.

It defined the end for all zeppelin activities outside of some very limited "lets make this work again" activities.

Quoting RTFM (Reply 16):
Actually I would have thought that the iconic a/c of the first Gulf War would have been the F117....

For the media it was. For the people on the wrong end of the war, the A10 was FAR FAR worse in their opinion. It was just as "stealth" since you didn't DARE to fire up radar sets, and with the altitude restrictions it might just get low enough to hear the engines of the A10... at the bottom of a gun pass. All kinds of terror if you were put out in the desert by Saddam. They flew at night silent and unseen until suddenly your encampment was being cut to pieces. They flew in the day time giving you perhaps a couple seconds warning to run like hell before your vehicle becomes a death trap. They could stay for hours wandering around hunting you down.

andrej · Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:01 pm

Hey all,

Eastern Front - IL2
WWII Germany - Fw-190, Me-109, He-111 and Ju-87
Gulf War - F-16, A-10
Balkans - F/A-18, F-16

Cheers,
Andrej

columba · Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:47 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 19):
Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Hindenburg was a civilian airship and not a military event.

It defined the end for all zeppelin activities outside of some very limited "lets make this work again" activities.

It is an important event in history but the thread is about historic military events and the Hindenburg was a civilan airship.

For me the most iconic military airplanes are:
WWI
Fokker Triplane
Sopwith Camel

WWII
B17
Ju87
Me109
Spitfire
Mustang
Me262
C47
Ju52
Mitsubishi Zero
Vought Corsair
B29

Berlin Airlift
C54

Korean War
F 86 Sabre
Mig17

Vietnam
Bell Uh 1D, F105, F4 Phantom II, B52

6 Day War
Israel Mirage III

Cold War
Mig 29
Mig 23
Mig 21
B52
KC 135
F15
F104

Gulf War I
F117, A10, B52, British Tornados in desert camuflage

Somalia
Blackhawk

Balkan
F117, F16, F18 (mainly because of that stupid movie with Owen Wilson)
Tornado ECR (first combat flights of the German Airforce after WWII)

Norlander · Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:58 pm

How about a backwards question of the same sort. If you mention an aircraft what event do you think about?

Harrier is then surly Falklands War and not the Gulf War or other conflicts it has served in.

The B-52s are Vietnam (the carpet bombing footage), and not the more recent wars.

F-105 Thunderchiefs and F-4 are Vietnam

F-86 and Mig-15/Mig-17 are Korea

Mig-25, SR-71, U-2 and other special planes are defiantly the Cold War, but the F-15 and F-14 might instead be considered Gulf War.

What do you guys think?

XT6Wagon · Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:30 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 21):
It is an important event in history but the thread is about historic military events and the Hindenburg was a civilan airship.

I agree in part. I am just arguing that while it was civilian event, it had the effect of being the corner that whole slice of aviation civiil and military turned at.

I think you could argue the same for the interwar seaplane races while being civilian is where the military aviation changed.

bhmbaglock · Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:37 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
Hindenburg was a civilian airship and not a military event.

a) The thread starter did not require military a/c only. His examples happened to be military but no such limitation was placed on the thread.

b) The Zeppelin company was bankrupt and Hindenberg would never have been built but for Nazi money, hence the deal to put the very large swastika on the tailfin. By the time she flew, she was certainly less than 100% civilian and pretty much in thrall to Hitler and more particularly Goebbels.

columba · Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 24):
The thread starter did not require military a/c only. His examples happened to be military but no such limitation was placed on the thread.

Still this is the "Military Aviation" forum and not "Aviation Polls & Prefs"

ebj1248650 · Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:49 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 6):
F-4 Phantom--- Vietnam

True ... and add the F-105 to that as well.

FlagshipAZ · Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:58 pm

Speculating on a possible upcoming event here...IF McCain becomes President,
the A4 Skyhawk could thrust into the spotlight again. It's more than likely that one
example may be paraded down Pennsylvania Ave on inauguration day.
Bush Senior had his Avenger, and JFK had his PT boat.
Regards.

MayaviaERJ190 · Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:33 pm

The Deperdussin, the very first aircraft ever to carry a Head of State, thus becoming any country's very first "Air Force One", as it carried then Mexican President Madero in 1911 over the land now occupied by MEX. As documented in (Spanish Only) http://www.aicm.com.mx/acercadelaicm/GACM/index.php?Publicacion=5. This happened as the US Army was demonstrated for the first time how to coordinate air and ground military maneuvers in Laredo on a Wright B next to the Mexican Border.

According to the Mexican Air Force's web page, http://www.sedena.gob.mx/index.php?id=99 (Spanish only), another historical plane would be the first bomber ever, which I wish I knew what make it was. While the US had already conducted mail and sand-bag dropping experiments before, and the Ottoman Forces had received aerially delivered grenades from the Italians over Libya, in 1913, the very first air branch of the Mexican Armed Forces (The Aerial Squadrille of the Auxiliary Milice of the Army) were bombarding experimental targets at nowadays MEX with home made Molotov cocktail-bombs.

Also, the very first air-to-sea bomb attack by, to me an unknown make aircraft also, from the revolutionary forces, against the loyal Mexican Navy's Warship "Guerrero" in April, 1914 during Mexico's Civil War, resulting in the warship's retreat.

These three feats, among others, resulted in the official founding of the Mexican Air Force on February 5th, 1915, and it was only afterwards, in 1916, that the First Aero Squadron from the US conducted it's very first air reconnaissance mission, happening it to be over Mexican Territory, thus resulting in the first invasion of Mexican air space by foreign forces.

Jabs · Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:47 pm

Here go a few more:

Fokker E.1 - Fokker Nightmare

Fairey Swordfish - Raid on Taranto, attack on Bismarck
Avro Lancaster - Dams raid
FW 200 Condor - Battle of the Atlantic
C-47 Dakota - D-Day, Operation Market Garden
S.M. 79 Sparviero - Anti-shiping operations on the Mediterranean
Mitsubishi G4M Betty - Attack on the Prince of Wales and Repulse, carried the official surrender delegation to Iwo Jima in 1945

Su-15 Flagon - Shoot down of Korean Air Lines Flight No. KAL 007
F-14 Tomcat - Gulf of Sydra
F-15 Eagle - Bekaa Valey, raid on the PLO's HQs in Tunis
F-16 F. Falcon - Osirak raid; Bekaa Valey

Regards

MD11Engineer · Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:41 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 24):
he Zeppelin company was bankrupt and Hindenberg would never have been built but for Nazi money, hence the deal to put the very large swastika on the tailfin. By the time she flew, she was certainly less than 100% civilian and pretty much in thrall to Hitler and more particularly Goebbels.

Quoting Columba (Reply 21):
WWII
B17
Ju87
Me109
Spitfire
Mustang
Me262
C47
Ju52
Mitsubishi Zero
Vought Corsair
B29

While the Americans used their B17 and B24 on daylight raids, the raids carried out by the RAF were done at night time, but the Lancaster and the Halifax had a much bigger bomb load than the B17 or B24.
I would also include the IL-2 and the Yak-4 in the list.
The Ju-87 and He-111 (plus the Do-17) are pretty much restricted to the early war (Battle of Britain, the Blitz), but later became to vulnerable, same as the Fairy Battle during May-June 1940.
The Ju-88 was probably the best German WW2 bomber built in bigger quantities and served (in different versions) for the whole war.

Jan

[Edited 2008-02-09 11:44:39]

RIXrat · Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:14 pm

Did we forget at that time Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle's carrier raid on Tokyo aboard B25 Mitchell bombers in 1942?

columba · Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:19 am

The F104 Starfigher is linked to a big crisis in Germany. The aircraft became very infanous because of a bribe scandal and later because of its high number of accidents with the GAF. It got nicknames such as lawn dart and widow maker.

MissedApproach · Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:18 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 32):
high number of accidents with the GAF

True, but not really the airplane's fault. Low level strike/attack in Europe has to be the least forgiving mission- flown in a mach 2 airplane that is also unforgiving of mistakes.

Quoting Jabs (Reply 29):
-15 Flagon - Shoot down of Korean Air Lines Flight No. KAL 007

Hey, almost forgot that one. Wasn't the Chinese airplane involved in the USN EP-3 incident a copy of the Su-15 as well?

L-188 · Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:10 am

Note to self: don't start these type of threads when it is midnight and you are about to pass out from being too tired.

Some of the planes I mentioned clearly made no sense....UH-1 cobra-German Trimotor....I know better then that.

MCIGuy · Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:08 am

How about the first combat use of the F-117? The time they dropped some iron on Manuel Noreiega's front lawn to flush him out of his palace. Big grin

columba · Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:02 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 33):
True, but not really the airplane's fault. Low level strike/attack in Europe has to be the least forgiving mission- flown in a mach 2 airplane that is also unforgiving of mistakes.

Still the name Starfighter in Germany will always be asscociated with those accidents. If you look at the aircraft with that tiny wings you can not do nothing but wonder that people put bombs on that wing and used the aircraft on low level flights. In the end it was a decent aircraft for that mission and pilots loved it.

PADSpot · Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am

Quoting Highlander0 (Reply 4):
A-10 - 1st Gulf War?

I must think of the F-15 first when I think of GW1.

dragon6172 · Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:44 am

When thinking of Gulf War One, the B-1 Bomber comes to mind. Only aircraft in the US arsenal not to make an appearance I believe?

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