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kaitak
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Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:40 am

The Qatar Govt is to order two C-17s, for delivery in 2009, throwing a lifeline to the C-17 programme:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...7-with-order-for-two-aircraft.html
 
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:34 pm

Interesting, but I'm struggling to imagine what Qatar would do with C-17s.

When I worked in Doha, their Mirages were a regular sight (there's a joke there somewhere) taking off from DOH, but what else have they got apart from a few helicopters? Of all the Middle Eastern resource-rich nations, Qatar seems to spend very little on "toys".
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:05 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Interesting, but I'm struggling to imagine what Qatar would do with C-17s.

What if these are not really for military use but to allow them to have an organic heavy lift capability for domestic industry? (Eg. petroleum...)
 
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:30 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
What if these are not really for military use but to allow them to have an organic heavy lift capability for domestic industry? (Eg. petroleum...)

For Qatar it would be gas, but a valid point. However, I cannot imagine the cost a small fleet of C-17s would justify their purchase over renting An-124 or An-225 lift as and when required.

On the other hand, a C-17 in QR's colours would be a sight to behold!  eyepopping 
 
sprout5199
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:42 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
However, I cannot imagine the cost a small fleet of C-17s would justify their purchase over renting An-124 or An-225 lift as and when required.

How about offering the C-17's to other ME countries to rent? Having them in the neighborhood if needed in a hurry makes sense. Alot of political/religous benefits will outweigh the cost.

Dan in Jupiter
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:49 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
For Qatar it would be gas, but a valid point. However, I cannot imagine the cost a small fleet of C-17s would justify their purchase over renting An-124 or An-225 lift as and when required.

Well, though you did not mention it, this brings to mind exactly the reason many C-17 operators have chosen to acquire them...the An-124s and An-225 are often committed and not necessarily available. The benefit of an organic transport arm is that you can use it at your discretion. Canada specifically cited this as the major reason they bought their own transport, and Sweden and Germany have mentioned it as the reason for their desire as well.

And if you're going to own your own, you may not want to deal with the maintenance of CIS aircraft...
 
Venus6971
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:38 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
And if you're going to own your own, you may not want to deal with the maintenance of CIS aircraft...

Thats a big selling point, the Russians will sell you any thing but they don't stand behind their products.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:45 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
the An-124s and An-225 are often committed and not necessarily available.

I don't know, but for everyone who claims they're busy, someone else says they spend 23 hours a day parked on a ramp. *shrug*
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:29 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
the An-124s and An-225 are often committed and not necessarily available.

I don't know, but for everyone who claims they're busy, someone else says they spend 23 hours a day parked on a ramp. *shrug*

Broke, awaiting parts to be flown in on an IL-76?

In 2000, we had an An-124 here at DFW, broken. It needed engine parts, and had to wait for the parts IL-76 to arrive, 3 weeks later. The An-124 crew slept on their airplane.

This is a good order (C-17s) for Qatar and Boeing. Will we see a 8 C-17 airplane order from Saudia Arabia soon?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:38 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Interesting, but I'm struggling to imagine what Qatar would do with C-17s.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):


Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
the An-124s and An-225 are often committed and not necessarily available.

I don't know, but for everyone who claims they're busy, someone else says they spend 23 hours a day parked on a ramp. *shrug*

Broke, awaiting parts to be flown in on an IL-76?

In 2000, we had an An-124 here at DFW, broken. It needed engine parts, and had to wait for the parts IL-76 to arrive, 3 weeks later. The An-124 crew slept on their airplane.

Also even on the ramp they could be "on the clock" under contract and waiting for a shipment to arrive. One thing about big shipments is that they can often be delayed getting to the airport for any number of reasons: Winds aren't right, permits to transport over public roads weren't in order, the equipment used to put in the truck or in the plane broke.

Not saying you aren't right, just pointing out another reason why they sit so much.

Big things... gotta love moving 'em!

Tugg
 
LMP737
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:09 am

I read in Av Week recently that pilots from the Indian Air Force test flew the C-17. Who knows, maybe we will see the C-17 with the IAF markings.
 
dl021
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:52 am



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
When I worked in Doha, their Mirages were a regular sight (there's a joke there somewhere)

Good one....where's the emoticon for a good chuckle?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
I'm struggling to imagine what Qatar would do with C-17s.

Move their own stuff and lease the things out wet to cover expenses.

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 4):
How about offering the C-17's to other ME countries to rent?

Exactly. It'll be a good source of revenue for them.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 6):
the Russians will sell you any thing but they don't stand behind their products.

Unless you're looking for them in front of the airplane.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The An-124 crew slept on their airplane.

Plenty of room to sack out.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 10):
Who knows, maybe we will see the C-17 with the IAF markings.

That'd be good, but can you imagine the negotiations they'll put Boeing through?
 
hunterson
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:12 am

It is quite correct that Qatar is not normally renowned for their interest in spending a lot of money on "toys" which might be a source of prestige for some, but utterly useless in practical terms( Scbrimle From UK).
Compared with some other oil- and gas- rich countries in the Gulf region of the Middle East, the Qataris have definitely been the least "glamorous" in their military spending and acquisition attitude. They maintain a small, but rather professional and relatively efficient army , of about 15 thousand people. Their airforce is made up of one fighter squadron and one training and ground support squadron, plus helicopter and transport units. And they never seem to have acquired anything that does not fit into their immediate requirements simply for the sake of "having it" as some other states in the region have regularly tended to do (the UAE is a case in point here ).
One can mention, as an example, how the performance of the Qatari units was rated as "top class" by Coalition Forces when Saddam Hussein decided to test their reaction in the Gulf War of 1990-1 and sent his troops across the Saudi borders into the town of Khafji. Saudi forces in the area were nearly routed, and it was left to a small contingent of Qatari troops, armed with French AMX-30 MBTs and AMX-10 AFVs to hold the line and pin down the invading Iraqi troops till the arrival of US Marines reinforcements to repel the attack together.
Another interesting example, was when the Qatari Emiri Air Force planned to upgrade its single fighter squadron, back in the early 1990s, which comprised 14 or so French-made Mirage F-1 machines, they had to wait till the aircraft were sold off to Spain before they could acquire their new equipment, namely 12 Mirage-2000/5 fighters which were delivered in the mid-90s and are still operational at present.This was at a time when the "norm" in the Gulf states was usually to order scores of anything and everything and then put the lot in storage, while 3 or 4 examples are kept flying ( usually by expat personnel) for "show" purposes.
As things stand at the moment, the Qatari Air Force is reportedly interested in replacing its Mirage-2000/5s with a similar number of either Rafales from France, or F-16 Block-60s from the US.
The interest in acquiring 2 C-17s must be part of this process, where the aircraft would come very handy in providing strategic support as well as general utility airlift duties over medium and long distances.
It is really not that different from the hundreds of C-130s and Il-76s which currently perform the same tasks for scores of airforces all over the world, but only a bit better. And when you are sitting on the 2nd largest natural gas reserves in the world , as the Qataris are, then you can obviously afford the best that is on offer.
 
LY744
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:43 pm

Could just be doing a favour for Boeing.


LY744.
 
hunterson
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:20 am

( Quoting LY744 )


They could indeed be doing that, but I really do not believe that 2 C-17s are such a huge favour for the books of a company like Boeing. They already have on order a huge no. of commercial Boeing-777s for the flag carrier Qatar Airways. They also interestingly have a similarly huge order with European Airbus for various A-320s/330s/340s/350s and 380s.So, they obviously try to keep everyone happy, as long as it meets their requirements.
Also, let us not forget that the C-17 is probably the best machine for the job at present.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:49 am



Quoting Hunterson (Reply 14):
Also, let us not forget that the C-17 is probably the best machine for the job at present

Its very possible that there is economic opportunities that can't effectively be harnessed in thier desert without the C17. Heavy lift aircraft that can operated off unimproved surfaces can make things happen in this regard. The C17 can land with huge payloads of equipment and supplys on surfaces that would traditionaly be only sutable for far smaller prop/turboprop planes.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 15):
Its very possible that there is economic opportunities that can't effectively be harnessed in thier desert without the C17.

Not really. Qatar is a very small country and the vast majority of the population live in and around the capital, Doha. Their desert is actually quite small and most, if not all, their resources are offshore.

If they're serious, then they've obviously decided they need the C-17s. All I'm saying is, having lived and worked there, I'm really struggling to see what they'll use them for.
 
hunterson
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:57 pm

( replying to Scbriml from UK )

You are absolutely correct. Unlike Saudi Arabia and some other countries in that region, the state of Qatar is very small indeed. That does not mean, however, that they do not have requirements for long-haul overseas heavy-lift duties. Remember that the UAE for example is made up of what is effectively a collection of "city states" ( Abu Dhabi, Dubai etc..), all of which lie within short driving distances from each other, yet they operate a huge long- and medium-
range fleet of transport aircraft ( inc. C-130s,Il-76s,B-747Fs as well as the odd An-124 ).

These countries practically import everything they need or desire from abroad, including sometimes their drinking water ! They also have enormous financial resources which are reflected in their sometime mindboggling fleets of VIP jets, of which anything less than a B-747 or A-340 is usually considered "small". Also, these VIP aircraft are not only intended for passenger use, but also for freight duties.

The Qataris may have decided that they need those C-17s to operate them on their expanding network of world-wide allies and friends transporting equipment for their oil and gas industries, in addition to airlifting aid to disaster-hit areas ( an activity in which they have been increasingly engaged recently in places such as Asia and Africa).

and if you can afford to buy it, then why lease it or borrow it ?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:45 pm



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 16):
If they're serious, then they've obviously decided they need the C-17s. All I'm saying is, having lived and worked there, I'm really struggling to see what they'll use them for.

Well they're tight with US forces, so perhaps they want a couple for joint-service ops with the US?
 
trex8
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:01 am



Quoting Hunterson (Reply 17):
The Qataris may have decided that they need those C-17s to operate them on their expanding network of world-wide allies and friends transporting equipment for their oil and gas industries, in addition to airlifting aid to disaster-hit areas ( an activity in which they have been increasingly engaged recently in places such as Asia and Africa).

let me gues, they will want an aircraft carrier next like the Thais did for disaster relief.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:26 pm



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 19):
let me gues, they will want an aircraft carrier next like the Thais did for disaster relief.

"Disaster relief," sure.  Wink One modification on Chakri Naruebet from Principe de Asturias is the addition of a throne room.
 
trex8
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 20):
One modification on Chakri Naruebet from Principe de Asturias is the addition of a throne room.

well I didn't want to cast any aspersions as to the real need for the "boat"  Wink
 
texl1649
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:39 am

They've got the money, and they haul a lot of gear. It's not really very complicated.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:45 pm

Now, how many C-17s will Israel order?  bigthumbsup 
 
LY744
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:01 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):

Considering the fact that after a decade of deliberations they can barely bring themselves to order 5-6 C-130Js (their current fleet of Herks consists of 18 Es and Hs) I'm going to go with zero.


LY744.
 
trex8
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:03 pm



Quoting LY744 (Reply 24):
Considering the fact that after a decade of deliberations they can barely bring themselves to order 5-6 C-130Js (their current fleet of Herks consists of 18 Es and Hs) I'm going to go with zero.

zero, till the US taxpayer pays for those planes!
 
Blackprojects
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:51 pm

The Prince of QATAR has his new Helicopter that he Had flown all the way from Qatar in Stages for his visit to Europe and the UK It will fit inside a C-17 which would mean not having to Fly it all the way there and back which is / was a majour head ache as it is not available at home while it is being ferried to Where ever it is required.

While Loading it into a C-17 means the Helicopter would be available untill required to go to Europe say the day before the Prince was due in London or Paris.The new Helicopter is a Sikorsky S-92a which is Quite a large machine and far to big for a C-130.

 old 
 
LY744
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:53 pm



Quoting BlackProjects (Reply 26):
The Prince of QATAR has his new Helicopter that he Had flown all the way from Qatar in Stages for his visit to Europe and the UK It will fit inside a C-17 which would mean not having to Fly it all the way there and back which is / was a majour head ache as it is not available at home while it is being ferried to Where ever it is required.

While Loading it into a C-17 means the Helicopter would be available untill required to go to Europe say the day before the Prince was due in London or Paris.The new Helicopter is a Sikorsky S-92a which is Quite a large machine and far to big for a C-130.

Mystery solved.


LY744.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:09 pm

Quoting BlackProjects (Reply 26):
The Prince of QATAR has his new Helicopter that he Had flown all the way from Qatar in Stages for his visit to Europe and the UK It will fit inside a C-17 which would mean not having to Fly it all the way there and back which is / was a majour head ache as it is not available at home while it is being ferried to Where ever it is required.

While Loading it into a C-17 means the Helicopter would be available untill required to go to Europe say the day before the Prince was due in London or Paris.The new Helicopter is a Sikorsky S-92a which is Quite a large machine and far to big for a C-130.



Quoting LY744 (Reply 27):
Mystery solved.

Wouldn't it be easier just to buy an S-92 for each continent? Going by rough list prices, you can buy ten S-92s for the price of one C-17. I don't buy this argument for a second.

[Edited 2008-06-19 09:23:02]
 
Blackprojects
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:48 pm

What if the Prince decided to use the C-17s for other uses as the UAE have a Military Protection agreement with there Fellow arab states incase of trouble they will give what aid they can when possible.

A Small unit of C-17s would allow Qatar to provide a massive boost to the Joint force.
How many C-130 loads will fit inside a C-17 and how much out size cargo will only fit inside the C-17 and not inside a C-130 and would require an AN-124 or other large transport to be hired in.  optimist   old 
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:19 pm

This order has been announced, though the press release does not state a quantity.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q3/080721a_nr.html
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:20 pm

Does anyone have any figures on the current backlog and production rate for the C-17 as there's been lots of talk about the cut-off time for long-lead parts approaching meaning that more sales need to be made unless the line is placed in jeopardy.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:37 pm



Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
The Qatar Govt is to order two C-17s, for delivery in 2009, throwing a lifeline to the C-17 programme:

Boeing and Qatar signed the contract on July 21st.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
What if these are not really for military use but to allow them to have an organic heavy lift capability for domestic industry? (Eg. petroleum...)

I reported this order on the Civil Avation forum in the Farnborough Boeing Order threat. These aircrafts will be used for humanitarian efforts. It is an attempt (and a first) by the Qatari government to become more involved in humanitarian efforts, in areas such as as aid packages and worker deployments. This is a first for the Arab world, and the government wants to display its flag proudly on its aircraft. For more details see my reply (no. 116) here:

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4064471/
 
dacman
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:17 pm

I was very happy to see the order finalized and look forward to getting photos of these two birds here in Long Beach.

Michael
(Dacman)
LAX / LGB local
 
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N328KF
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RE: Qatar To Order C-17s!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:33 pm

I think it's safe to say that the C-17, from the standpoint of customer breadth, is the most successful strategic airlifter since the Il-76 Candid.

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