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UAL727NE
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Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:29 pm

So my buddy is talking me into going National Guard. I was AF before. I wanna fly so I was looking at the Warrent Officer. What fixed wing planes do the Army fly? He said you can be a WO on the fixed wings too. I saw the Citations and the Shorts and the King Airs, What else do they fly? Thanks
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
 
army15p
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:00 pm

We also have few metroliners (c-26) mixed in with the fleet as well, mostly within the Guard. I'm not sure if Big Army possess any. I think we also may on paper own a gulfstream or two, but definitely not sure about that. As far as getting into the fixed wing fleet? Pretty much impossible to do on the entry level. The slots in a fixed wing unit are where senior warrants go to die in the Guard, and pretty much the same in the active Army. They are highly competitive positions. A kid that is down here for flight school with me from North Carolina some how managed to land a gig thats going to end up putting him immediately into a fixed wing unit but he's the only one I've ever heard of getting a setup like that. And I believe its due to deployment schedules. I'm pretty sure the guys that make the selection rosters don't even remember that the army has fixed wing assets as they haven't been available for any of the classes for the 9 months I've been here. But the major question is whats the hurry to get to the fixed wing camp. Army Aviation is 100% about supporting the grunt on the ground. Flying sh*t hot advanced aircraft. As a fixed wing guy you pretty much support the VIP thats gotta go somewhere for a meeting. Not to rewarding for me, but thats my opinion.

Also if the Air Force ever is able to remove its head from its fourth point of contact, the Army will one day supposedly be flying C-27 Spartans. The JCA was a program that was moving ahead at the pace that the Army wanted but anytime the Army gets a new toy with fixed wings instead of rotating ones, the Air Force gets very paranoid. And now that the Air Force has there grubby little fingers in the process, with their stellar aircraft procurement history, I haven't heard this platform mentioned in months. When the new CO of the USAACE was giving his little speech about the direction Army Aviation, he mentioned alot of the new places we were going (uh-60m ch-47f uh-72a ARH UAV etc etc) ominously not mentioned... JCA
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:11 pm

Quoting UAL727NE (Thread starter):
What else do they fly?



Quoting Army15p (Reply 1):
the Army will one day supposedly be flying C-27 Spartans.

As mentioned, if things work out, there may be these.....

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Photo © Ralf Meyermann



Related thread here.....

https://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/92801/

[Edited 2008-08-17 14:34:03]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
UAL727NE
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:06 pm

Cool. Yea idc what i fly i just liked fixed wing better. The base here is 58's and 47's. Thinking of flying the 47 but I do wanna be an airline pilot when id get out though.
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:02 am



Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 3):
Cool. Yea idc what i fly i just liked fixed wing better.

There could be "cooler" and more "exciting" things to come.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-we-have-a-winner-03372/#more-3372

Quote:
"Two rare bright spots come from US SOCOM, who is about to turn a C-27J into a "Baby Spooky" gunship, and the US DoD's recent SAR report…

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_C-27J_Blueprint_3-view_lg.jpg
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/.../AIR_C-27J_Blueprint_3-view_lg.jpg

[i]"July 25/08: Aviation Week's aerospace daily and defense report notes that the Pentagon's 2008 budget reprogramming request includes $32 million to turn a C-27J into a small prototype gunship, using 'proven/known' weapons and systems. Read 'AC-XX Gunship Lite: A C-27J Baby Spooky."


http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ip-Lite-A-C-27J-Baby-Spooky-05001/

I like the "Li'l Spook" or "Baby Spectre" idea. This might also find itself on it.....

http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/bae_prod_eis_rgs.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Arrow
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:08 pm

Too bad they don't still have their Beavers. Or do they?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
johns624
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:35 pm



Quoting UAL727NE (Reply 3):
Thinking of flying the 47 but I do wanna be an airline pilot when id get out though.

That has nothing to do with it. My brother was a Huey pilot in the Army and now is a NW A320 FO. If you want to fly fixed wing, the Army isn't where you want to be.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:21 pm



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 6):
That has nothing to do with it.

I wouldn't go that far. Yes, Army helicopter pilots find their way to the airlines, but airlines might not credit rotary wing time toward certain requirements. Same hours in fixed wing would always be better. Statistically I'd bet that education, rather than flying time mitigates against Army pilots with the airlines since, for most of recent history one could be a pilot in the Army with less than a four-year degree. The "bunch of high-school graduates" lore is rather pervasive - to the point that I've heard airline people express the belief that NO Army pilots had degrees.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
army15p
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:07 pm

I'd say the No education thing really is due to the fact that the Army is I think the only branch that offers a "High School to Flight School" recruitement program. But there are only a few of those slots handed out a year. And they really are far from handed out. The kids that I've met down here that fell under that program are some pretty top notch prospects that could have done well at probably any college of their choosing. The "Street to Seat" program that we have as well probably contributes to this belief as well. I can tell you that I haven't met anybody from this program either that is anything less then top notch. Speaking from personal experience, but I've yet to meet a single individual that was awarded this track that has anything less then a bachelors. In fact, their is another warrant in my class that has an engineering masters from Virginia Tech, fairly impressive. And of course our Aviation Commision Officers have at least their bachelors as well.

The fixed wing route commerical airline route is of course pretty shiny and sexy and prestigious and all that, but that job market is tight and only getting tighter. If you follow rotary wing aviation at all, you will find that the market is at a very interesting crossroads. The market is expanding at a rate where there are not enough qualified pilots to fill all the jobs that are available. Coupled with this is the fact that many, if not most of the Vietnam era pilots that pretty much were there for the birth and life of commerical rotary wing flying are at retirement age and even in some cases well past it. As an aviator trained at, with out question, the best schoolhouse for rotary wing flight, an Army Aviator skills will be pretty sought after in the coming years. Also to add to the topic at hand somewhat. The army does in fact also posses AT-6 Texan IIs
 
SlamClick
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:21 pm



Quoting Army15P (Reply 8):
The army does in fact also posses AT-6 Texan IIs

Now you're talking. Gotta have something cool around to tempt us. When I was on active duty Test Board had a Cavalier Mustang as a chase plane, some outfit up at Lakehurst NJ had a C-54 and Huachuca had Douglas F-3D Skyknights.

I was a fixed-wing Warrant during Vietnam and later dual-rated. I used to hear: "Oh, Army - you one of those enlisted pilots?"

Quoting Arrow (Reply 5):
Too bad they don't still have their Beavers. Or do they?

I don't think they do. I think they all went away a generation ago. They were fun but they were slow! Last outfit I was in that had one replaced it with an ex-USAF U-3 Blue Canoe.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
2H4
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:58 am



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
When I was on active duty Test Board had a Cavalier Mustang as a chase plane

Wow, it wouldn't get much better than that, eh?

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
Arrow
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:42 am



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
They were fun but they were slow!

The designer apparently fretted about that -- until it was pointed out to him that the only competition in the field was a dog sled.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:45 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 11):
The designer apparently fretted about that -- until it was pointed out to him that the only competition in the field was a dog sled.

Which doesn't work very well when the ice melts. I loved the old Beave, got about 1500 hours or so in it. I think it is one of the most useful designs of all time - not just restricting that concept to airplanes. Out of production for many years but they refuse to die. I know of one that has flown for 56 years, survived heavy damage in three crashes but it is too valuable to let it go to the metal knackers. It just keeps getting rebuilt.

I once flew convoy escort with one - averaged less than 35 miles per hour for five hundred miles and had the time of my life doing it.

Another time I was flying up a victor airway and heard an Air Force aircraft give a position report about 80 miles behind me at the same altitude. I quickly reminded center that I was plodding along at a mere hundred knots ahead, below radar and the Air Force guy behind me says: "Don't worry. I'm a Beaver too."

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):
Wow, it wouldn't get much better than that, eh?

Interesting thing is that it was to chase helicopters in flight test.

Forgot to mention that during my time the Army also had P-2V Neptunes. One of these is in the museum at Fort Rucker, as is the Mustang - reportedly the last one on active duty.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Arrow
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:01 am



Quoting Arrow (Reply 11):
I quickly reminded center that I was plodding along at a mere hundred knots ahead, below radar and the Air Force guy behind me says: "Don't worry. I'm a Beaver too."

If you haven't already read it, you'd find Sean Rossiter's book The Immortal Beaver an interesting read. It was originally designed with a 330 hp Gypsy Queen engine in mind, and designer Dick Hiscocks gave it that wing because he (rightly) thought it was going to be underpowered. When they tied the Wasp to it instead, they kept the wing.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:03 am

It is hard to imagine that boxy cabin section with anything but a big radial in front of it. Well, I guess the cowl on the turbo Beaver would give you some idea of what it might have looked like.

Very useful airplane. Not all airplanes are so good at what they do.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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f4wso
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:49 am

The Army also has the C-31s that support the Golden Knights and I've seen a Pilatus also supporting the Knights out of Ft Bragg/Pope a couple of years ago.

The regionals are pretty rotorhead friendly. That is one way to get the fixed wing time to be attractive to a major carrier.

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:34 pm

There are these, as well.....

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Photo © Mark McEwan


.....Though they may be gone after all the "Technology Insertion Programs" are finished and validated, for whatever will replace the ACS.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SlamClick
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:12 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
There are these, as well.....

Perhaps, but you are not supposed to know about those!
In fact they might not exist at all.  Smile
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:17 am



Quoting UAL727NE (Thread starter):
Warrent Officer.

WARRANT Officer.

Quoting UAL727NE (Thread starter):
What fixed wing planes do the Army fly?

Everyone has pretty much touched upon all of the Army's fixed wing aircraft, except for the de Havilland Canada Dash 7. Which performs mil-intel missions. Although the Army does not own these aircraft, they lease them. And oddly enough, because of that fact, the pilots are able to earn their ATP license. Army regulations prohibit the use of Army aircraft to achieve civilian aviation licenses, however the Dash 7 pilots are able to to earn their ATP while going through the transition course in Canada. Pretty cool.

...But UAL... if you want to be a Warrant Officer, you're going to need to learn basic grammar and spelling. When you put your packet together, you must submit an essay,
and trust me... knowing how to write like an intelligent person, goes along way.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
The "bunch of high-school graduates" lore is rather pervasive - to the point that I've heard airline people express the belief that NO Army pilots had degrees.

100% of all army aviation officers have degrees.

60% of all WO1s have degrees.

90% of all CW3s have degrees.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:06 am



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
Perhaps, but you are not supposed to know about those!
In fact they might not exist at all.

Oh, I'm terribly sorry, but A.Net graciously posts (as in "now") pictures such as this on its homepage.....  Wink

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
EMBQA
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RE: Question On US Army Aviation

Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:01 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 18):
Everyone has pretty much touched upon all of the Army's fixed wing aircraft, except for the de Havilland Canada Dash 7

I first learned about those when I moved to Bangor, Maine. There is a company there that does the pre-outfitting for the Army. When they told me what the Army does with it I just thought..."What...?? that old POS...?"
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