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nycbjr
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A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:43 pm

This has been discussed b4 I know but Jon at flightblogger posted a story about the potential replacement for the fleet of VC-25's used for AF1

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=31009&seenIt=1

Should be interesting for sure. I personally would like to keep it Boeing (country bias) however I could really see the use of 2 full decks on the A380.

what do you guys think?
 
gsosbee
Posts: 365
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:15 pm

If Congress would not let the Air Force buy a "foreign" tanker, they sure as the world will not let the POTUS fly in a "foreign" airplane! (Forgetting of course they potentially are letting him/her fly in a "foreign" helicopter.)

Now if Airbus would set up a full product development and manufacturing operation in the US, the story might have a different ending.
 
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par13del
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:45 pm



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 1):
If Congress would not let the Air Force buy a "foreign" tanker, they sure as the world will not let the POTUS fly in a "foreign" airplane



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 1):
Forgetting of course they potentially are letting him/her fly in a "foreign" helicopter.)

Cool
 
Ken777
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:47 pm

Right now, with the financial mess we're in, the AF can't afford to buy and rebuild 3 used DC-3s for the AF1 replacement.

I have a feeling that we'll keep what we have for now and look again later, if things clear up a bit.

As for the 380 being selected - most doubtful, even if it was "half price". That would be the greatest political FUBAR ever, and there have been so pretty big FUBARS lately.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:58 pm

It'll almost certainly be a derivative of the 748. But I can also see the fleet of 757s replaced by 787-8s.
 
Jackonicko
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:21 pm

This is one role where buying American is more important than cost, capability, value for money or indeed any other factor.

Selection of the VH-71 was extraordinary. It's a better aircraft than any S-92 VIP variant could have been, but however weak the Fathawk, that's what should have been bought. Every time POTUS is photographed stepping out of Air Force One or Marine One, it should be a US designed, US built aircraft, even if it's a rubbish one.
 
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par13del
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:34 pm



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 5):
Selection of the VH-71 was extraordinary. It's a better aircraft than any S-92 VIP variant could have been, but however weak the Fathawk, that's what should have been bought. Every time POTUS is photographed stepping out of Air Force One or Marine One, it should be a US designed, US built aircraft, even if it's a rubbish one.

Exactly my sentiments, if one looks at the office and what it represents, there can be no other reason, why the Navy thought otherwise will be an interesting read in the years to come.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:44 pm



Quoting Jackonicko (Reply 5):
Every time POTUS is photographed stepping out of Air Force One or Marine One, it should be a US designed, US built aircraft, even if it's a rubbish one.

I wouldn't say that. The vast majority of people aren't going to tell the difference between two different types of VIP helicopters. I suspect most people just want the President to have the best aircraft performance wise. Americans clearly doesn't have anything against imported, high-tech manufactured products...

The flagship of Presidential air transport is another matter, IMO. The 747 is just too iconic as a symbol of American industry, technology, and innovation to pick an A380 for its bigger cabin. Truth be told, a 787-9 would probably be more than enough cabin area if you told the press corps and b-team White House staff to take their own flight. It's a case where image is very important and the A380 doesn't offer any substantial capability over a smaller aircraft like the 747.
 
nycbjr
Topic Author
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:54 pm

I agree 100%, I really don't see the A380 having a snow balls chance in hell, but then again I thought the tanker competition would never go to EADS/NG (even if the final result didn't for better or for worse)
 
dl767captain
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm

I just can't see AF1 being an A380. People were freaking out about a foreign tanker and you know more people would freak out watching the US president fly around in a foreign plane (no matter how stupid their complaint might be). I could see them ordering the 748i or maybe even the 787. Both would be a good option, the 748i would be a much nicer looking aircraft but the 787 is very technologically advanced and very green at the same time.

There are a few VIP 748s on order, 4 i believe, 2 could easily go to being a AF1 replacement, and maybe the other two are for the E-4Bs.... But i could definitely see the 748i in AF1 colors, maybe the 787-8 to replace the 757s... who knows
 
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EPA001
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
Truth be told, a 787-9 would probably be more than enough cabin area if you told the press corps and b-team White House staff to take their own flight

Or maybe a B777-LR? The B747 based Air Force 1 is already a bit overkill in my opinion. The A380 would probably be absurdly big for the task of transporting the President and his staff. The B777-LR would do the job in my opinion just fine, and it is made by an American company. Even if many parts of it do come from other countries, in this case the image of US made is very important! So for me the A380 is not a good choice for the next Air Force 1 for the US President.
 
Blackbird
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:55 pm

From what I remember, a plane has to be in operational service for 5 years before it is considered for use in carrying the president -- to make sure all the kinks are ironed out.

IMHO: The A-380 would only be acceptable as an AF-1 replacement if all it's avionics were over-haulled. Technically through malicious programming someone can manipulate the flight controls of an A-380 with much greater ease than a mechanically controlled plane like an B-747-200.


Blackbird
 
sprout5199
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:27 pm



Quoting EPA001 (Reply 10):
The B747 based Air Force 1 is already a bit overkill in my opinion.

You have to remember when it was ordered. The 80's was the cold war. The leader of the free world had to be able to lead in the air. As the 707 was just too small, and the idea of a large 2 engine aircraft for this was not realistic, it had to be a 747. In the future(20 years or so) when the current 747's need replacing, the military, USSS, and Congress will decide what Aircraft(Spacecraft) the future President needs.

Most likely it will be a Boeing-Airbus model A-818, and half the people here on A-net will scream that it should be a PLIAC(Peoples Liberation Indian Aircraft Company, I.E. Chinese/Indian), while the other half will say to buy a USEA(United States of Europe and the America's) to keep the jobs here.  Smile

Dan in Jupiter
 
Blackbird
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:45 am

Sprout5199,

Quote:
Most likely it will be a Boeing-Airbus model A-818, and half the people here on A-net will scream that it should be a PLIAC(Peoples Liberation Indian Aircraft Company, I.E. Chinese/Indian), while the other half will say to buy a USEA(United States of Europe and the America's) to keep the jobs here.
 Smile

Sadly I wouldn't be suprized if the US, Canada, and Mexico become one entitity like the E.U. rendering the US Constitution obsolescent, and then would merge with the E.U.


Blackbird
 
TaromA380
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:35 am

RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:33 am

As an European, I'm truly opposed to any future merge with the USA, ever. And if the actual trend will continue, I won't be surprised if mexicans will be opposed too. Big grin
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 1090
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:50 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 13):
Sadly I wouldn't be suprized if the US, Canada, and Mexico become one entitity like the E.U. rendering the US Constitution obsolescent, and then would merge with the E.U.

Ähm, yes...sure

To the topic:

No A380 for the president due to the named reasons and hopefully not for any EU president/Chancellor as well. Its overkill and a waste of tax money.

But why bother today? AF1 is not to be retired in the foreseeable future, is it? It must have very low hours'n'cycles or am I wrong?
 
columba
Posts: 5279
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:15 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
Right now, with the financial mess we're in, the AF can't afford to buy and rebuild 3 used DC-3s for the AF1 replacement

Then lease two A380s from ILFC, don´t know what they will do with theirs anyway  Smile
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:13 pm

It's going to be some time before the VC-25s are ready to be retired. 28-000 just underwent a complete overhaul and 29-000 either has also done so or will likely soon.

So we're likely looking at 2020 or so for a replacement.
 
dl767captain
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:51 am

RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:32 pm



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 15):
But why bother today? AF1 is not to be retired in the foreseeable future, is it? It must have very low hours'n'cycles or am I wrong?



Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
It's going to be some time before the VC-25s are ready to be retired. 28-000 just underwent a complete overhaul and 29-000 either has also done so or will likely soon.

But it can take a long time to not only build the aircraft and receive it (depending on what aircraft they choose, would take some time to get a 787) and then the entire aircraft has to be overhauled with all sorts of electronics, safety measures, missile protection, then there is the interior, all while under extreme security.

So it would be good for them to at least decide on an aircraft now so then they can get to work on it quickly
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7861
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:05 pm



Quoting Nycbjr (Thread starter):

what do you guys think?

I think we just keep kicking this dead horse. The current VC-25's are still all but brand new with very low flight hours and among the best maintained aircraft in the world
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:02 am



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 18):
But it can take a long time to not only build the aircraft and receive it...

The two VC-25As were ordered on 08-Jul-1986. They were delivered to the Air Force in August and December 1990. So a four-year lead time should be plenty and, as such, the USAF doesn't need to start really thinking about it until 2015.
 
gulfstream650
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:58 pm

RE: A380 For New AF1?

Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:51 pm



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 1):
(Forgetting of course they potentially are letting him/her fly in a "foreign" helicopter.)

Isn't that chopper going to be built by the US under license? Surely it will be just like the Westland Apache vs the US version or like the Harrier etc?

I really can't wait to see the new Marine 1 think she'll be a beauty.
 
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keesje
Posts: 14785
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RE: A380 For New AF1?

Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:25 pm

I think an 777-300ER would fit perfectly. It the perfect replacement for the 747 at lower cost. And then its safer then a quad.

 innocent 

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