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rheinwaldner
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:58 pm

2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:34 am

I think the KC-X will come very similar to the last RFP. The USAF is tempted too much by the dual-role deployment strategy. Probably the savings would account for a large portion of the spendings.
And I know this assessment will not find much acceptance.
Many things are difficult, all things are possible!
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:53 am



Quoting Rheinwaldner (Reply 50):
I think the KC-X will come very similar to the last RFP. The USAF is tempted too much by the dual-role deployment strategy.

Hmm...one would hope they've learned a lesson or two in the politics of procurement. There is no doubt in my mind that many senior leaders in the USAF want the capability that "bigger" brings. There is equally no doubt in my mind that had they opted for the KC-767 this thing would have been funded by now.

There are good and realistic points being made about the KC-X being shelved and the existing KC-135 fleet being overhauled to "soldier on" for many more years. Hard choices will have to be made. And...at the risk of starting a range war here...given the turbulence in the markets, the nose diving economy, the auto industry asking for a bailout...against this back drop, will the new president and the Congress elect to source the tanker to EADS? Would a new president really want to split his party and give the Republicans an issue they could pound in the media?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
gsosbee
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:40 am

2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:29 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 47):
I believe that there will be more of a focus on re-building areas that have been hit the hardest during the Iraq War.

Le't hope so, but history says no. Someone gave Frank the OK to throw out the 25% number (even he isn't stupid enough to go down that route by himself).

I would speculate that the macro number will be generated somehing along the following:

Total DoD spending FY2009 - $XXX billion
Less Iraq and Afganistan - ($XXX billion)
Equals total pool - $XXX billion
Less 25% - ($XXX billion)
2010 DoD Budget - $XXX billion
Less personnel costs (2009+4%) - ($000 billion)
Less operational costs - ($XXX billion)
Less Afganistan - ($XXX billion)
Equals what is available for new systems - Not much if anything

Hopefully the administration will at least keep it word on providing a pay increase. Also, the double dip on Afganistan is correct. They will delete the supplemental and then take out the costs of continuing - that is how the US government does things.
 
Oroka
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:37 am

2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:30 pm

I dont know if someone posted this yet, but here is an Obama quote about the C-17 and KC-X... not that bleak.

Quoting President Obama:
"We must adapt and make tradeoffs among systems originally designed for the Cold War and those required for current and future challenges. We need greater investment in advanced technology ranging from the revolutionary, like unmanned aerial vehicles and electronic warfare capabilities, to systems like the C-17 cargo and KC-X air refueling aircraft--which may not be glamorous to politicians, but are the backbone of our future ability to extend global power."

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...s%20%20Personnel%20Over%20Programs
 
gsosbee
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:40 am

2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:12 pm



Quoting Oroka (Reply 53):
I dont know if someone posted this yet, but here is an Obama quote about the C-17 and KC-X... not that bleak.

The statement was made before the election and the current economic problems.
 
Oroka
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:37 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:56 am

Oh, I guess Obama is full of himself and wont stick to his word cause a few details have changed. He also stated in that article that he could cut funding to programs that were going over budget or not producing results.

The USAF NEEDS tankers... there is no way around that fact. Thus, they will get them. And to help with the economy, Boeing will get the contract.
 
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kc135topboom
Posts: 11190
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:55 am



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 51):
There are good and realistic points being made about the KC-X being shelved and the existing KC-135 fleet being overhauled to "soldier on" for many more years. Hard choices will have to be made. And...at the risk of starting a range war here...given the turbulence in the markets, the nose diving economy, the auto industry asking for a bailout...against this back drop, will the new president and the Congress elect to source the tanker to EADS? Would a new president really want to split his party and give the Republicans an issue they could pound in the media?

Obama may be smart enough not to do this, I'm not so sure about Reid and Pelosi.

Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 52):
Le't hope so, but history says no. Someone gave Frank the OK to throw out the 25% number (even he isn't stupid enough to go down that route by himself).

I would speculate that the macro number will be generated somehing along the following:

Total DoD spending FY2009 - $XXX billion
Less Iraq and Afganistan - ($XXX billion)
Equals total pool - $XXX billion
Less 25% - ($XXX billion)
2010 DoD Budget - $XXX billion
Less personnel costs (2009+4%) - ($000 billion)
Less operational costs - ($XXX billion)
Less Afganistan - ($XXX billion)
Equals what is available for new systems - Not much if anything

Actual FY-2009 approved defense budget:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/defense.html

Total - $515.44B (increased from $479.5B for FY 2008)
Iraq and Afghanistan budgets are supplementials and not included in this total.
Military personnel - $125.24B
O&M - $170.78B
Weapons procurment (all weapons systems) - $104.21B (this is where the 25% reduction will come from)
R&D, OT&E - $79.61B (this is where the 25% reduction will come from)

Total Weapons Procurment, R&D, OT&E - $183.82B
Minus proposed 25% - $45.96B
Total new proposed FY-09 Pro, R&D, OT&E - $137.86B

Quoting Oroka (Reply 55):
The USAF NEEDS tankers... there is no way around that fact. Thus, they will get them. And to help with the economy, Boeing will get the contract.

That is assuming the Congress lets the USAF buy new tankers, like the KC-767AT. But if Congress elects to reengine/refurbish/update the KC-135E fleet, that type work can be done by Boeing, NG, LM, Pemco, or many others.

NG may have a foot in the door for this type of program, as they already have the contract to reengine the E-8 J-STARS with new build JT-8D-219 (I believe the military designation will become the F-119-100) engines. They could propose reengineing the KC-135Es with the same JT-8D-219s or stay with the CFM-56-2B (F-108-100) engines.
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:58 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 56):
That is assuming the Congress lets the USAF buy new tankers, like the KC-767AT. But if Congress elects to reengine/refurbish/update the KC-135E fleet, that type work can be done by Boeing, NG, LM, Pemco, or many others.

NG may have a foot in the door for this type of program, as they already have the contract to reengine the E-8 J-STARS with new build JT-8D-219 (I believe the military designation will become the F-119-100) engines. They could propose reengineing the KC-135Es with the same JT-8D-219s or stay with the CFM-56-2B (F-108-100) engines.

dis= "this" for those unfamiliar on Chicago lingo
da = "the" for those unfamiliar on Chicago lingo
d= any word dat starts with a th
duff= he is a friend of ours in dis thing we do


At de risk of sounding like a bitter red stater I will throw dis in da fire. Being born and raised in Chicago and astute follower of bareknuckle(vote early vote often) Chicago politics dis will be da way business will done in the newly named city of Chicago on da Potomac nee Washington DC. Who has deir corporate hq in a city on the south end of Lake Michigan? Where is da POTUS elect a resident of, owes his patronage to, made his political bones with, and owes alot of favors to, where is his chief of staff from. Call me paranoid but I won't be suprised to see Chi-town city hall connected contractor getting a White house Remodeling contract. Da new Pres will also have deep dish pizza, polish sasich,brats,Chicago style Vienna hot dogs and Vienna Italian beef in da WH mess hall for da duffs that will be on da WH staff . NG better think of moving deir corp hq to Chicago to get even a wiff of dis deal. Let me apoligise to all our UK friends for butchering the Queens english in dis this reply  Yeah sure

Da United States of America,da country that works
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:07 pm



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 57):
Da United States of America,da country that works

My bad "Da Country Dat Works"
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:12 pm



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 57):
is will be da way business will done in the newly named city of Chicago on da Potomac nee Washington DC.

Good grief! You can't be implying that there would have been more of a "two way street" in the defense trade with the hated Bush administration, than with the administration of the "Chosen One", are you?  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
gsosbee
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:40 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:17 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 56):
Actual FY-2009 approved defense budget

FY2009 is already on the books and is the current budget (remmeber the US fiscal year is 01 Oct-30 Sept.). The issues will start with the FY2010 budget.

Also remember the new administration included all supplementals in their calculations (which probably is correct) of total defense spending. That is why you have to start out with the out of the check book number and work percentages and cuts from that number.

[Edited 2008-11-08 06:20:22]
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:40 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 59):
Good grief! You can't be implying that there would have been more of a "two way street" in the defense trade with the hated Bush administration, than with the administration of the "Chosen One", are you?

Deir is a US Attorney in Chicago named Peter Fitzgerald the same one dat put Scooter Libby in da big house, he duz a outstanding job in Illinois putting alot of Illinois Republicrats in jail for corruption. If da POTUS elect removes ,promotes, fires, makes him a judge, has a accident and puts a "puppy dog that just past the bar exam" in his place you will know da fix is in. Buy Boeing stock. Chosen one means picked by Mayor Richy Daley. No I am not implying anything you know he is the messiah, I better go to mass and confess my transgression and say 4 hail Marys have 2 asprin and call me in Nov 2012.

Republicrat= ILL Republican and ILL Democrat politician hybrid who mated during an act of corruption,graft.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11190
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:06 am



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 61):
he duz a outstanding job in Illinois putting alot of Illinois Republicrats in jail for corruption.

I think there were only two Republicans in Illinois anyway (and none in Chicago). You mean they are both in jail now?

 duck   duck   duck 
 
MOBflyer
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:42 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:07 am



Quoting Oroka (Reply 53):
Quoting President Obama



Quoting Rheinwaldner (Reply 43):
President Obama

Obama is NOT president yet! He is (unfortunately for our future) President ELECT... - George Bush is still the POTUS.

I know it seems trivial, but please be precise and careful when describing people.
 
trex8
Posts: 5584
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:15 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...tilitiesNews/idUSN1141236520081211

WASHINGTON, Dec 11 (Reuters) - The two Republican senators from Alabama urged Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Thursday to quickly move forward with a plan to replace the Air Force's aging fleet of U.S. aerial refueling tankers.

so maybe sessions and shelby will find a good reason to vote for a detroit bailout in exchange for something from the new administration!
 
trex8
Posts: 5584
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: 2009 Usaf Tanker Competition Proposals #2

Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 62):
I think there were only two Republicans in Illinois anyway (and none in Chicago). You mean they are both in jail now?

Rod the Blag was actually preceeded by about 4 republican governors. Obama probably would have had a fight on his hands to get elected to the senate if the Il GOP hadn't mauled itself to death in the primaries, then had a sex scandal and then the social conservatives refuse to have the most popular GOP politician in the state on the ticket against Obama because she was prochoice.

can Rod share rooms at the federal pen with former Governor Ryan and Rezko?

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