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JPRM1
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:49 pm

FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:00 pm

France and Irak have sign a contract for 24 transport helicopters.
No other news for the moment.

Links in French:
http://www.aerospacemedia.com/site/a...p.php?Id=090325211456.62q3c7iz.xml
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:44 pm

Irak? Are they next to Iraq?

 Wink

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rwessel
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:47 am

Irak is the correct French spelling. Note that the OP also wrote FRANCE and IRAK in all caps in the title, as would be proper in French.
 
columba
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:29 am

Any info on what type Cougars I assume ?
 
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ptrjong
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:06 pm

Interesting that they aren't buying American...

Peter
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:25 pm



Quoting Rwessel (Reply 2):
Irak is the correct French spelling. Note that the OP also wrote FRANCE and IRAK in all caps in the title, as would be proper in French.

I figured as much...hence the  Wink

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
Any info on what type Cougars I assume ?

Are Dauphins still in production? I guess my money would be on the NH90 though.

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 4):
Interesting that they aren't buying American...

Not like we've forbidden them from buying from France.

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UH60FtRucker
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:54 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 4):
Interesting that they aren't buying American...

No... thank god they're not!

Not only have I flown with Iraqi helicopter pilots.... I've helped train them. And it was a futile enterprise. They suck.

No need to ball up a perfectly good Black Hawk!
 
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ptrjong
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:01 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 5):
Not like we've forbidden them from buying from France.

I know, but the US trained the new Iraqi Army and might have hoped to leave with a couple of pro-American (or just pro-Sikorsky) officials in the Ministry of Defence at least.

Peter
 
JPRM1
Topic Author
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:38 pm

The helico are EC 635 and the contract includes support.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises/...endre-24-helicopteres-a-lirak.html

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 1):
Irak? Are they next to Iraq?




Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 1):
Irak? Are they next to Iraq?


Thanks for correcting my mistake ! In return, no problem for helping you when you will write in French.  Smile
 
columba
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:52 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 5):
Are Dauphins still in production? I guess my money would be on the NH90 though

The Ec 155 is a larger and modernised version of the Dauphin.
I doubt that they would order the NH 90. My money is on the EC 725 Caracal.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):

No need to ball up a perfectly good Black Hawk!

Better a second hand Black Hawk then a new EC 725 or NH 90.
I believe second hand Pumas/Super Pumas, Black Hawks Hawks or Mil 8/17s would be sufficient for a country like Iraq. The money is needed elsewhere.
I don´t see why they would need better equipment then most Nato countries have.
Germany is using 40 years old, single engine Bell UH 1D as their light transport helicopter other Nato countries still fly 1st Generation Pumas etc.....
 
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ptrjong
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:56 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
Not only have I flown with Iraqi helicopter pilots.... I've helped train them. And it was a futile enterprise. They suck.

How come they suck, could you elaborate on that? Poor selection of trainees or what?
Thanks,
Peter
 
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SAS A340
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:28 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
Not only have I flown with Iraqi helicopter pilots.... I've helped train them. And it was a futile enterprise. They suck.

they can't all suck after you trained them right? makes me feel that the problem it's not about them alone  Wink
 
GDB
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:23 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
Not only have I flown with Iraqi helicopter pilots.... I've helped train them. And it was a futile enterprise. They suck.

Then the suppliers of these helicopters are presumably in for some 'attrition replacement' orders in time!

On the training, not quite the same thing, but I recall a documentary about British personnel training the Iraqi Police.
Those that passed were on the pass out parade, their trainers hoping that all their efforts to instill the need for fair, non sectarian attitudes to their tasks.
But once the parade was ended, the new policemen instantly went back into their various tribal/religous groups.
Cue sadly shaking heads of those who had trained them.
 
JohnM
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:40 pm

I know that they have some Super Huey (Huey II) birds now. I hope they don't screw them up, they are very nice machines. They would be much easier to maintain and fly, and still get the job done very nicely. I looked at a few, and I was impressed. When I saw their C-130s flying, I would try to stay clear of the area!
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:07 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 7):
I know, but the US trained the new Iraqi Army and might have hoped to leave with a couple of pro-American (or just pro-Sikorsky) officials in the Ministry of Defence at least.

So it would seem. But with some recent cock ups by some US Helicopter firms, I'd imagine this type of "instillment" was harder to pull off. Don't be surprised if bigger ticket items come from the US though.

Quoting JPRM1 (Reply 8):
Thanks for correcting my mistake ! In return, no problem for helping you when you will write in French.

Ahh, merci. Big grin

Quoting Columba (Reply 9):
The Ec 155 is a larger and modernised version of the Dauphin.
I doubt that they would order the NH 90. My money is on the EC 725 Caracal.

Looks like EC 635's.



The Royal Jordinian Air Force sports them. Must be good for desert duty.

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trex8
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:12 pm

surprising they didn't buy EC145/UH72s from the US
 
Alessandro
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:11 am



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
they can't all suck after you trained them right? makes me feel that the problem it's not about them alone

My guess is that they´re picked due to political reasons old Iraqi air force Mil-17 pilots aren´t
allowed in?
 
columba
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 am



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 14):
Looks like EC 635's

I am surprised that France has signed the contract, as the EC 635 is a product of Eurocopter Germany.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:35 am



Quoting Columba (Reply 17):
I am surprised that France has signed the contract, as the EC 635 is a product of Eurocopter Germany.

Hmmmm, I guess it depends on where the check goes. Not sure really.

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wvsuperhornet
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RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:51 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 4):
Interesting that they aren't buying American...

Its part because the US has never wanted to lock France out of Iraq they have always wanted the french involved, I think it is a good move to let France and some of the other european companies have a shot as some of the contracts, nothing wrong with sharing in these troubled times. That and the helicopters they picked are a good product the black hawks are over kill for the Iraqi airforce.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 16):
My guess is that they´re picked due to political reasons old Iraqi air force Mil-17 pilots aren´t
allowed in?



Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 11):
they can't all suck after you trained them right? makes me feel that the problem it's not about them alone

a little bit of political reason and from what I hear from people that I know that were over there its a lack of wanting to learn, the same thing happened to the US trained troops in the republic of georgia while you can train some and they do ok most will not succeed unless they want to learn, I dont fault the trainers any it may take years to get a decent airforce in place in iraq. I dont want to stereo type but when you have a population and military that has been told what to do for years under a dictator it will take some time maybe even a generation to break that cycle.
 
trex8
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:13 pm

don't the Iraqis still owe the French beaucoup francs from saddam's time? or is that all written off, certainly the money owed to the gulf states and saudis has not been.
 
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ptrjong
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

RE: FRANCE/IRAK Sign A Contract For Helicopters

Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:13 pm



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 20):

France used to take a lot of Iraqi oil, so I'm not sure there's a huge debt. BTW, French francs don't exist any more.

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