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Max78
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:59 pm

Military Maintenance

Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:09 am

Hi,

I need to refresh my brain about the military maintenance.. more precisely about the scope of each levels of maintenance: type of procedures, off/on AC, parts replacements, parts repair, and also its differences with commercial AC Maintenance..

If you know any good web site that describe that, pls let me know

or maybe i should dive into the standards (milspec, aecma 1000d, ..), but i hope to find sthg less detailed..

Thx you.................
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:18 am



Quoting Max78 (Thread starter):
levels of maintenance: type of procedures, off/on AC, parts replacements, parts repair

Honestly... and I am not trying to be a jerk here... but I really hope you are not able to find some of that stuff on the web. In all reality there is no reason why any of that should be public. Unit maintenance schedules, procedures, etc. should not be public domain, because of the sensitivity and potential security risk.

Like I said, I am not trying to be a jackass... but people should not be freely divulging unit maintenance procedures, and parts replacement/repair procedures, on an international website. And I would like to remind any US service personnel, considering divulging that kind of information on here, that USCIDC actively searches and investigates these breaches, and has full authority to charge the violator under UCMJ.

OPSEC references: AR-530-1 and JP 3-13 .3

Sorry to rain on this parade.  Sad

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:14 pm

Thanks UH60...I was about to post the same thing.

The sad thing nowadays, with the advent of a global network, is that there are a lot of people in uniform who fail to realize that some of the things that they post online are a HUGE OPSEC violation.
 
dragon6172
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:55 pm

Maintenance is maintenance, whether it be civil or military. Bad parts get changed, inspections get done, paperwork is completed. So the scope is the same, just the details differ. If you want details, I refer you to the two previous posts.
Phrogs Phorever
 
Curt22
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:43 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:04 pm



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):
Honestly... and I am not trying to be a jerk here... but I really hope you are not able to find some of that stuff on the web. In all reality there is no reason why any of that should be public. Unit maintenance schedules, procedures, etc. should not be public domain, because of the sensitivity and potential security risk.

Agree with Rucker...you should not, and will not find aircraft specific maintenance/inspection instructions on line, but you can find DoD and service specific guidance that explains the policy of how to determine appropriate levels of maintenance for new systems and the definitions from each service as what types of maintenance are to be performed at what level of repair known as Organizational, Intermediate and Depot level repair.
 
Max78
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:59 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:50 pm

apparently my post was not clear .. there is no way i am looking for military sensitive information: i dont want the content of maintenance procedure, i dont want any numbers of turnaround time, etc..

i am looking for military guidance and definitions for maintenance. Like what type of maintenance is performed at level 1,2,3 etc.

Curt22, apparently you seem to know a bit on it.. you are mentionning DoD guidance (should be public) and 3 different repair levels (Organizational, Intermediate and Depot level). Could be detail a bit ?
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:50 pm

Most heavy military acft have calendar major inspections completed every 6 mos with Pre and Post flight insps completed daily. Every 5 years most heavy acft go through a Programmed Depot Mx which is similiar to a C/D check with different items checked and most TCTO's (AD's) are completed during the depot insp. Fighters are inspected on a hourly insp cycle due their more higher G profile. Every 250 hours a phase insp is completed with 6 different inspections each phase. They also have a PDM insp every 5 years.
In the USAF most mx performed on the flightline is field level, strictly just repair it to get the next mission remove and replace components, time change items are replaced during the phase or mojor inspections as not conflict with the flying schedule.
Heavy mx is performed at USAF ALC's IE Tinker, Robins, Hill AFB's . If a pilot really tears up a acft in the field the ALC's are called to recover the acft.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
Curt22
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:43 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:37 am



Quoting Max78 (Reply 5):
Curt22, apparently you seem to know a bit on it.. you are mentionning DoD guidance (should be public) and 3 different repair levels (Organizational, Intermediate and Depot level). Could be detail a bit ?

I think Venus did a great job summarizing the Mx/Inspection concepts and inspection intervals in a generic nature with only minor variances between types of aircraft.

Since you asked about the "Three levels" here's a quick outline.

Organizational level maintenance that is performed at the field level and consists mainly of removal and replacement of components that can be changed in the field. Replace a faulty radio on the aircraft would be an organizational level task.

Intermediate level maintenance are the tasks that are not practical to perform at the unit, or organizational level...The old broken radio used in the example above would be a good candidate to be repaired at the "I-Level" since most of these items are solid state devices requiring elaborate and costly test equipment and tooling to repair and it's more cost effective to buy one set of equipment and repair broken radios (or anything else that qualifies) at a central location for several units.

Depot level maintenance was well explained by Venus. These are the heavy maintenance tasks that require extensive tooling, skill and facilities and time not available or practical to constitute at the O or I levels.

For some years, the US Military has been looking to reduce cost of ownership even more and much of the "I-Level" tasks have been reassessed and have moved either up to the Depot or down to the O-Level in an effort to reduce one layer of overhead. This has worked well for the most part and of course even for the military, the term depot doesn't always mean an organic government facility...many manufactured are now the "depots" for their products under the Performance Based Logistics concept (PBL) and you can "Google" PBL to learn more about this!
 
donniecs
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:20 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:50 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 1):

Actually the UH-60 electronic manuals are approved for public distribution along with most of the other U.S. Army helicopter manuals. There’s nothing in those manuals that is going to compromise anything.
Charlie - Gulfstream flight mechanic
 
mascmo
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:56 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:40 am



Quoting Donniecs (Reply 8):
Actually the UH-60 electronic manuals are approved for public distribution along with most of the other U.S. Army helicopter manuals. There’s nothing in those manuals that is going to compromise anything.

However, our C130 manuals are not approved for public distribution!
 
hercppmx
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:25 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Mon May 04, 2009 3:45 pm



Quoting Mascmo (Reply 9):
However, our C130 manuals are not approved for public distribution!

Very True, It's a great feeling to shred them all, hours and hours of fun. Some maintenance information is public knowledge, however PUBS are not, nor should they be.

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 3):
Maintenance is maintenance, whether it be civil or military. Bad parts get changed, inspections get done, paperwork is completed. So the scope is the same, just the details differ. If you want details, I refer you to the two previous posts.

That is about the best answer you can get.
C-130; it's a love-hate relationship
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Mon May 04, 2009 5:08 pm



Quoting Mascmo (Reply 9):
However, our C130 manuals are not approved for public distribution!

With so many many C-130's flying on the civilian registry and so many different overhaul facilities that work on the military C-130's the manual have to be publicly available.
 
hercppmx
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:25 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Mon May 04, 2009 5:33 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 11):
With so many many C-130's flying on the civilian registry and so many different overhaul facilities that work on the military C-130's the manual have to be publicly available.

There are manuals for everything on the C-130 I work on engine's and we alone have near 20, they break down every aspect. Now if you add the manuals for airframes, avionics, life support systems there are a ton, and they are model specific and the military ones vs. civilian ones are different because of different systems and configurations of the aircraft, but the military ones are not for public knowledge.
C-130; it's a love-hate relationship
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11184
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Mon May 04, 2009 6:56 pm

Each individual US military airplane and helio is tracked by its tail number/Bu-number. The USAF, USN, US Army, USMC, and USCG know the individual "health" of their aircraft daily. While some mx items are performed on a flying hour, cycle, # landings/take-offs, or calendar bases, problem parts or componets are identified, as needed, to adjust the mx schedule.

As with any aircraft, each part has a service life, and adjustments are made should that service life decrease, or increase.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Tue May 05, 2009 12:02 am



Quoting HercPPMX (Reply 12):
There are manuals for everything on the C-130 I work on engine's and we alone have near 20, they break down every aspect. Now if you add the manuals for airframes, avionics, life support systems there are a ton, and they are model specific and the military ones vs. civilian ones are different because of different systems and configurations of the aircraft, but the military ones are not for public knowledge.

A revealed Google search revaled several web site where C-130 Maintenance manuals can be purchased. :


http://www.esscoaircraft.com/Lockheed_C_130_HC_130_series_s/9273.htm
 
hercppmx
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:25 am

RE: Military Maintenance

Tue May 05, 2009 3:58 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
A revealed Google search revaled several web site where C-130 Maintenance manuals can be purchased.

I am not saying they are not out there, however the manuals there are dated in the 60's and 70's, there are not the most current ones, I'm not really looking for a debate, afaik our current ones SHOULD not be in the public knowledge.
C-130; it's a love-hate relationship
 
Jackonicko
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:47 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Tue May 05, 2009 2:02 pm

In a UK context, First (squadron/flight line), Second (Station Eng Wing/base hangar) and Third Line (MU) servicing have largely been replaced by 'Forward' and 'Depth', with 'Depth' typically being provided under incentivised availability-based support contracts by industry/service teams.

BAE Systems will no doubt give comprehensive detail as to the scope of 'Depth' as it applies to Harrier (JUMP and HPAC), Tornado (ATTAC), and Nimrod (NISC), or on VC10 (was it Javelin?), while Boeing are the boys to approach for information on Chinook, and AgustaWestland look after the Merlin IMOS contract.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Tue May 05, 2009 3:23 pm



Quoting HercPPMX (Reply 15):
I'm not really looking for a debate, afaik our current ones SHOULD not be in the public knowledge.



I will agree to disagree!

If you work on C-130's you may find this site interesting:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/ams/ServiceNewsMagazine.html
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Wed May 06, 2009 9:52 pm

The C-5s are going to a new maintenance schedule later this year. This was released publicly on the air force link a month ago or so. Basically, the current system puts more down time on the C-5. HSC (Home Station Checks) are every 105 days, ISO inspections (Isochronal inspections) are ever 420 days, alternating minor and major inspections, and then PDMs are every 5 years for A and C models, and every 7 years for the B models. Of course with the problems that some of the jets have had, some have gone in earlier, or went in for unscheduled maintenance at depot and extend their time back in the field screwing up the schedule, and the "good" jets would get overflown by sometimes a year and a half just because they didn't want to throw a good jet away. The new system (MSG-3 I think its called) will have HSCs every 120 days, ISOs every 480 days, and PDM every 8 years. So a C-5 will go to PDM, get out, go through 3 HSCs, a minor ISO, 3 HSCs, a major iso, 3 HSCs, a minor ISO, 3 HSCs and then PDM. Unscheduled maintenance will probably screw up a couple of planes schedules, but they hope that this will reduce downtime for some of the jets and keep more available. The big issue is the A models actually surviving 8 years between PDMs. That will be interesting to see happen without going to depot on a drop in. 8 years is an awful longtime to go without a paint job as well. We are going to see some really ugly C-5s down the road, as they did a couple of years ago when they were overflying them to keep them in the air.
 
flynlr
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:12 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Tue May 19, 2009 8:40 am

I cannot help you with those details you require but here is a picture of me doing a bit of work
on an 1979 model UH-60A at Fort Lewis Washington in the mid 80's .
I was transferring parts from an old to a new transmission during a 500 hour maintenance .


Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 690 File size: 142kb
The Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
 
boacvc10
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:31 pm

RE: Military Maintenance

Fri May 29, 2009 10:14 pm



Quoting Flynlr (Reply 19):
I cannot help you with those details you require but here is a picture of me doing a bit of work
on an 1979 model UH-60A at Fort Lewis Washington in the mid 80's .
I was transferring parts from an old to a new transmission during a 500 hour maintenance .

How long did it take you to put it all back together ?
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