Moderators: richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
JohnM
Topic Author
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:35 pm

Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:12 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssA...spaceDefense/idUSN3045831920090630

It seems that the AF will be allowed to retire more A model C-5s. They had been blocked from doing this since 2004. Interesting what will happen and how the survivors will be shifted around.
Could Dover or Travis be getting out of the C-5 business? I would think some Guard and Reserve units will also put up a good fight to get C-17s. Stewart and/or Wright Pat to join the 17 world? I saw an article from a couple years back that the AF wanted to dump 30 A models.
 
texl1649
Posts: 1204
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:23 pm

It would be odd for Barney Frank to give up on that pet earmark at this point in time. It's not like our gov't gives a crap about a few million here or there (and everywhere).
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:18 am

Well, I guess Westover, Stewart, Wright Pat, and the WVANG will now move up to the C-5A/B/C/M business. According to the story, only 30 C-5As currently in the fleet will retire, and 29 others will stay around for a while.

So, in two years will we hear that the last 29 C-5As will retire and be replaced with 29 new build C-17Bs (keeping the C-17A line open until at leats 2016)?
 
Jackonicko
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:47 pm

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:32 pm

Yes please!

C-17B is a great aircraft, and keeping the C-17 line open gets my vote, though 29 aircraft would be just two years of production - three at most.
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:11 am

I don't think they are going to just get up and retire 30 C-5As just like that. I seriously doubt Dover will get out of the C-5 business. Travis on the other hand has been itching to get out of it...so those jets could go elsewhere. Stewart is the other base crying for C-17s. Say they retire 31 A models, that'll put our fleet to 50 C-5Ms, 2 C-5Ns (I am guessing thats what the C-5C will become), and 28 C-5As would be left. Dover can keep the jets they have, Travis can give their jets to Martinsburg (who love the C-5 by the way), and Lackland. Then the rest can be redistributed, Stewart converts to 17s, and it'll be all cozy. But thats just my philosophy on things.
The C-17B was shot down a few years ago, and they already have a C model proposal. If they buy anymore 17s, they'll be A models. I don't think they need anymore C-17s to replace the 5s. Heck, the next 18 C-17s don't have a place to go and are being temporarily based at random bases until they can figure out where to put them permantly!
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:03 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 4):
The C-17B was shot down a few years ago, and they already have a C model proposal. If they buy anymore 17s, they'll be A models. I don't think they need anymore C-17s to replace the 5s. Heck, the next 18 C-17s don't have a place to go and are being temporarily based at random bases until they can figure out where to put them permantly!

But if the USAF still needs to maintane a force of 292-300 stratigic airlifters, any retired C-5As would need to be replaced by some version of the C-17.

We can start basing some at Stewart ANGB, NY and then go from there.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14033
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:50 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
We can start basing some at Stewart ANGB, NY and then go from there.

McGuire wants a second C-17 squadron, they previously had a fleet of 32 C-141s prior to their retirement in 2004. Currently they operate 13 C-17s, plenty of room for a second squadron.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:42 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
McGuire wants a second C-17 squadron, they previously had a fleet of 32 C-141s prior to their retirement in 2004. Currently they operate 13 C-17s, plenty of room for a second squadron.

Don't they also have 2 squadron of KC-10As (30 airplanes) and 1 squadron of NJANG KC-135Rs (8 airplanes) there, too?
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14033
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:15 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
Don't they also have 2 squadron of KC-10As (30 airplanes) and 1 squadron of NJANG KC-135Rs (8 airplanes) there, too?

Currently at McGuire AFB:

305th/514th:

32 KC-10s, 13 C-17s (they are getting a 14th C-17 temporarily next year).

108th (NJANG):
8 KC-135Rs, 2 C-32s

Starting later this year McGuire AFB will be taking over command of adjacent Fort Dix and Lakehurst NAES, an Air Force General will be in command of the new Joint Mega Base. Starting next year 37 Army, Navy and Marine Corps Reserve Aircraft from Willow Grove JRB will start moving to McGuire AFB, Willow Grove is to be closed by 2011. Work is well underway on new hangars, simulator facilities and administrative buildings to host the new units.

Coming over from Willow Grove:

Marine Corps Reserve;

11 AH-1, UH-1 helicopters
11 CH-53E helicopters

Army Reserve;

6 C-12/ C-35 aircraft

Naval Reserve;

4 C-130Ts
4 C-9s
1 C-12.

Also the New Jersey Army National Guard is moving 23 aircraft (18 UH-60, 4 UH-72, 1 C-12) to Lakehurst NAES, work is underway on those facilities.

http://www.samephiladelphiapost.org/...B%20McGuire%20Brief%20Sep%2008.pdf
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
TropicBird
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:13 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:35 pm

Congress just increased the required number of "strategic airlift aircraft" from 299 to 316. So if my math is correct, that means 213 C-17's (205+8) and the remaining 111 C-5's means a total of 324 or 8 aircraft over the required 316. That paves the way for retiring at least 8 C-5's?

House Chairman's statement....

"Regarding strategic airlift aircraft, the Chairman's mark increases the required number aircraft to be maintained in service from 299 to 316 C-17 and C-5 aircraft.

http://armedservices.house.gov/apps/...m/AbercrombieStatement061209.shtml
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:55 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
But if the USAF still needs to maintane a force of 292-300 stratigic airlifters, any retired C-5As would need to be replaced by some version of the C-17.

They have 213 C-17s total including the ones funded...plus the 80 C-5s left after the retirements I suggested...thats 293. Its highly likely that at least one more year of C-17s would be ordered. Between Travis, McGuire and Stewart, those would be the most likely candidates for C-17s. Dover expressed interest in a few more 17s, but they want to continue with the mix of C-5Ms and C-17s.
It is possible that they hold off on the retirements of the C-5As till they see what the C-5M OT&E results show. Each jet is going to take 11 to 13 months to modifiy, and if they have 5 jets in there gone for a year, that hurts the entire mobility capability...thats on top of the jets down for PDM, CBBF, Crownskin, ISO, LAIRCM, etc. They won't modify the As, we all know that, but having them around while the Bs are being converted would be a help.
It will be interesting to see, nevertheless.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:17 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 10):
They have 213 C-17s total including the ones funded...plus the 80 C-5s left after the retirements I suggested...thats 293. Its highly likely that at least one more year of C-17s would be ordered. Between Travis, McGuire and Stewart, those would be the most likely candidates for C-17s. Dover expressed interest in a few more 17s, but they want to continue with the mix of C-5Ms and C-17s.
It is possible that they hold off on the retirements of the C-5As till they see what the C-5M OT&E results show. Each jet is going to take 11 to 13 months to modifiy, and if they have 5 jets in there gone for a year, that hurts the entire mobility capability...thats on top of the jets down for PDM, CBBF, Crownskin, ISO, LAIRCM, etc. They won't modify the As, we all know that, but having them around while the Bs are being converted would be a help.
It will be interesting to see, nevertheless.

As TropicBird said, the new requirement is 316, minimum airlifters. You are also correct siting mods and scheduled PDMs for the C-5. So, C-17 production will stay around until at least 2011. That is the year the accelerated retirement of the C-5As will begin.

Why is it taking so long to convert C-5Bs into C-5Ms (and C-5Cs to C-5Ns)? IIRC, the reengining of the KC-135As to KC-135Es and KC-135Rs (and KC-135Qs to KC-135Ts) took about 4-6 minths per airplane.
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Air Force To Be Allowed To Retire More C-5As

Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:51 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):

Why is it taking so long to convert C-5Bs into C-5Ms (and C-5Cs to C-5Ns)? IIRC, the reengining of the KC-135As to KC-135Es and KC-135Rs (and KC-135Qs to KC-135Ts) took about 4-6 minths per airplane.

You have to remember all the other improvements they are doing on the C-5 along with the re-engining. Tuning everything in with the new AMP software, replacing hydraulic lines left and right, completely gutting the cargo compartment to install the new lighting system. Its a lot bigger of a plane. They basically have to rewire the entire wing for the new engines and pylons, none of the old stuff is compatible with the new stuff. Most of the hydro lines in the wing are being pulled out and replaced. All of the flight control actuators are being replaced with new or refurbished ones, and they have to modify the slat system for the new pylons. There are more things being done as well, but the majority of the time its down is for the strip down and re-wire of most of the plane. It only took them 5 months to install the new engines and pylons. Its all the other crap they do to the plane that takes so much longer. I've been told that the first production jet is scheduled to go down in August (3285). It is also a small group of people doing the modification. Maybe they'd get it down to 8 months per plane, but this is government work...it always gets stretched out so they get paid longer!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Woodreau, zululima and 63 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos