Boeing4ever
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Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:06 pm

I was inspired by talk of the Su-47 and whether or not it was for export outside of Russia. We've been hearing for years about PAK-FA, Russia's fifth generation fighter in small doses for years now. Rumors were of first flight being back in '07, then '08, and now '09. Well it's October, and I have yet to see a first flight or formal announcement.

Now it's not the SuperJet, so obviously we're not going to be seeing press releases on a fighter jet in much the same way as a commercial product. But I'm wondering, what can we expect of PAK-FA in terms of capabilities, looks, export potential, and more importantly, when can we expect it to fly?

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:09 pm

There isn't much new info on it other than the fact there are two prototypes already built(if you believe the recent russian statements) and that a new set of weapons that were redesigned to be carried in a bay, including A-S missiles where shown at this year's MAKS show.

For the looks, it'll probably be similar to a stealth version of a Flanker, but that's just my guess, seeing that you could actually the basic design, get rid of any angle that makes the aircraft visible and that you could actually fit a sizable weapons' bay between the engines, specially if you separate them a bit and change the angle to make them less square-ish.
Also the fact that a big part of the PAK-FA avionics and systems are being used in the Su-35 already.
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:10 am

As Acheron said, two prototypes have been build according to some statements. One is supposedly brought to Moscow for static tests, whereas the other one will perform the first flight.

Earlier this year it was said that the prototype would fly in august. During the summer, that date was moved to November. The last thing I heard was "before 2010". I have no idea if there's any substance behind the last date but I'm eager to see some pictured from the roll out and first flight.
 
tu204
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:01 pm

We Russians are much more secretive than Americans. I expect that we will not see a photo of the PAK-FA untill at least 6 month after its maiden flight. From what I hear (just rumors, no inside information whatsoever) - it looks something like the F-22.
I doubt we will get any inside info (and if you have any I would not recommend against posting it on the internet - all information that has anything to do with it is secret (Form 3 or 4))
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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alberchico
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:35 pm



Quoting Tu204 (Reply 3):
We Russians are much more secretive than Americans

Yes but you would think that since this aircraft is intended for export the Russians would be a little more open with information or at least release drawing of what the freaking thing looks like.

Recently Russia tried to get Brazil on board the Pak-FA program and failed so perhaps all the secrecy surrounding the aicraft is harming its sales prospects.
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Devilfish
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:10 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 4):
Recently Russia tried to get Brazil on board the Pak-FA program and failed so perhaps all the secrecy surrounding the aicraft is harming its sales prospects.

Maybe Russia was also unsuccessful in luring India to commit more funding for the project that they're now asking Brazil?.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...t-fifth-generation-fighter-by.html

Quote:
"India and Russia hope to induct their joint fifth-generation stealth fighter by 2017, with officials from both countries hoping to iron out their differences in the coming months and sign a development contract by mid-2009.

[.....]

Last year HAL and Russian arms export agency Rosoboronexport agreed to study the joint development of a fighter. Since then, however, there have been differences over the aircraft's design and New Delhi's level of involvement in the project.

'Two major issues must be resolved. India was asked to invest a lot of money, but is unhappy with the level of access to sensitive technology that the Russians plan to give in return. In addition, the Indian air force is keen on a two-seat fighter, while Russia prefers to focus on a single-seater,' says a New Delhi-based observer."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:39 pm

Sounds like the Brits and the F-35
 
Oroka
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:50 pm



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 5):
Maybe Russia was also unsuccessful in luring India to commit more funding for the project that they're now asking Brazil?.....

Considering how Russia is taking India to the cleaners with the Admiral Gorshkov, you cant blame India one bit for making sure they get things EXACTLY the way they want, and in very clear writing.
 
tu204
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:57 am



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 4):
Yes but you would think that since this aircraft is intended for export the Russians would be a little more open with information or at least release drawing of what the freaking thing looks like.

Recently Russia tried to get Brazil on board the Pak-FA program and failed so perhaps all the secrecy surrounding the aicraft is harming its sales prospects.

You got it.
Secrecy hurts business. Also, I don't think it would hurt anyone to atleast show what the aircraft looks like. Atleast for taxpayer reasons.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 5):
Maybe Russia was also unsuccessful in luring India to commit more funding for the project that they're now asking Brazil?.....

India's version was originally planned to be different from the Russian one. The specs are different, but the technology to develop both are planned to be the same.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:57 pm



Quoting Tu204 (Reply 3):
We Russians are much more secretive than Americans. I expect that we will not see a photo of the PAK-FA untill at least 6 month after its maiden flight. From what I hear (just rumors, no inside information whatsoever) - it looks something like the F-22.
I doubt we will get any inside info (and if you have any I would not recommend against posting it on the internet - all information that has anything to do with it is secret (Form 3 or 4))

Really? the US had the F117 and the B-2 at least 8 years before even the american public knew they had them.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 7):
Considering how Russia is taking India to the cleaners with the Admiral Gorshkov, you cant blame India one bit for making sure they get things EXACTLY the way they want, and in very clear writing.

I am not sure even a contract makes much difference with russian arms contractors or at least in the past it hasn't, the only 2 ways to avoid it are for India to develop its own aircraft or don't buy Russian.

The russians can build a nice aircraft but seeing is believing remember the SU-35 was suppose to be the next great thing and its only been deployed in very small numbers and nowhere outside of russia. So when I actually see the thing being built (in numbers) then I will believe it.
 
BMI727
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:14 pm



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 9):
Really? the US had the F117 and the B-2 at least 8 years before even the american public knew they had them

...and God only knows what we have in the air (or beyond) now.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
rwessel
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:07 am



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 9):
Really? the US had the F117 and the B-2 at least 8 years before even the american public knew they had them.

The B-2 had a public rollout before its first flight. The development program was certainly pretty black for a number of years, but we didn't have operational aircraft in secret.
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:29 am



Quoting Tu204 (Reply 3):
We Russians are much more secretive than Americans. I expect that we will not see a photo of the PAK-FA untill at least 6 month after its maiden flight. From what I hear (just rumors, no inside information whatsoever) - it looks something like the F-22.
I doubt we will get any inside info (and if you have any I would not recommend against posting it on the internet - all information that has anything to do with it is secret (Form 3 or 4))

Since India is involved in the development, they might shed some light on the project as it progresses. India is perhaps not as "secretive" as you Russians and the Americans.

Here's a short vid from an Indian news station. It talks about their involvement in the project and they show some different artistic impressions of the fighter. It's not that new so most of you have perhaps already seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOSR4wQ3Y0
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:43 pm

This is the rendering FlightGlobal published a while ago:

The queen of the skies is dead.
 
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spudh
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:18 pm

Interesting to see that Sukhoi have persisted with the widely spaced engines following the Su 27/mig 29 (and dare I say it F-14) bloodline as opposed to the F-22 engine arrangement. I presume this would give the Sukhoi the usual advantages at high alpa and reduction in high speed drag. Probably have a significantly higher top speed than the Raptor.

Thats one of the things that amazes me about the F-22 and F-35. What happened to area ruling? or is this reflected in their limited top speed (however irrelevant it's claimed to be.)
 
Marcus
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:54 pm

This will always be the best stealth looking model in my opinion.....  duck 

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/TES...%20MIG%2037-B%20FERRETT%20PAGE.htm

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TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:49 pm



Quoting Spudh (Reply 14):
Interesting to see that Sukhoi have persisted with the widely spaced engines following the Su 27/mig 29 (and dare I say it F-14) bloodline as opposed to the F-22 engine arrangement. I presume this would give the Sukhoi the usual advantages at high alpa and reduction in high speed drag. Probably have a significantly higher top speed than the Raptor.

I've heard rumors that the widely spaced engines will allow dual weapon bays, one in front of the other. These could possibly fit >10 A2A missiles.

Another benefit achieved by separating the engines is less heat on the structure separating them. (IIRC this was an issue on the F-22). And if one engine catches fire, it less likely to spread to the other.
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:52 pm

Wikipedia's article provides some interesting info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

The best looking artist renditions I have seen so far come from this site: http://duler.ru/design.html

They rendered a 2 different impressions, and both are beautiful. I wouldn't complain if the final design looks something like these:

http://duler.ru/CONTENT/pic/industrial/SU_PAKFA_pic_5.jpg

http://duler.ru/CONTENT/pic/industrial/SU_PAKFA_pic_3.jpg

http://duler.ru/CONTENT/pic/industrial/SU_PAKFA_pic_8.jpg

http://duler.ru/CONTENT/pic/industrial/SU_PAKFA_pic_6.jpg

http://duler.ru/CONTENT/pic/industrial/SU_PAKFA_pic_2.jpg

http://duler.ru/CONTENT/pic/industrial/SU_PAKFA_pic_7.jpg
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:30 am



Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 17):
They rendered a 2 different impressions, and both are beautiful. I wouldn't complain if the final design looks something like these:

They almost look like something from another planet  Wink and they sure looks good!! it will be very interesting to see the final product.
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:54 pm

November's cover for the russian edition of Popular Mechanics.

 
Oroka
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:08 am



Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 17):
The best looking artist renditions I have seen so far come from this site: http://duler.ru/design.html

That top pic was my wallpaper for several months earlier this year. I was really intrigued by the shoulder mounted intakes.
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:35 am



Quoting Oroka (Reply 20):
That top pic was my wallpaper for several months earlier this year. I was really intrigued by the shoulder mounted intakes.



Quoting Tu204 (Reply 3):
From what I hear (just rumors, no inside information whatsoever) - it looks something like the F-22.

I have a feeling it's not going to be a hyped-up F-22 copy either. If anything, it will more closely resemble the F-23 prototype, which would be worlds better than an F-22 anyways, especially with vectored thrust.

The posted models perfectly resemble a blend between speed, stealth, and the specs that the above posters claimed the new Sukhoi would possess. Stealth can be beautiful! I can't imagine that this aircraft will not exceed the specs of any current fighter, 5th gen or not. Sukhoi and India have access to the most advanced technology available (to the public), and they will make the most of it, just as they made the most of their lunar mission that discovered water on the moon.

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 18):
They almost look like something from another planet

Only if the other planet possesses the exact atmospheric properties of our own planet Earth, and the responsible race is within 10 years of our own development here on earth.

 spin 
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:22 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
...and God only knows what we have in the air (or beyond) now.

My guess would be unmanned the F-22 is actually more capable that what it is allowed to do because of human limitations not sure about the F-35 but I would assume it would be held back by human limitations also.

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 21):
I have a feeling it's not going to be a hyped-up F-22 copy either. If anything, it will more closely resemble the F-23 prototype, which would be worlds better than an F-22 anyways, especially with vectored thrust.

When the F-22 and the F-23 had the fly off there was not that much difference between the 2 the F-22 had more manuverability the F-23 had more stealth if the russians add thrust vectoring it will set the engines back limited the stealth like the F-22, thats why it was not done with the F-23, also the F-22 designed allowed for more future expansion so I am not too sure about worlds better the F-22 is about as close to perfect as you will get for a manned aircraft the russians may match it but I doubt the new aircraft will be any better you can only do so much when you have someone flying it with what the human body can stand.
 
CheetahC
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:17 am



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 22):
When the F-22 and the F-23 had the fly off there was not that much difference between the 2 the F-22 had more manuverability the F-23 had more stealth if the russians add thrust vectoring it will set the engines back limited the stealth like the F-22, thats why it was not done with the F-23, also the F-22 designed allowed for more future expansion so I am not too sure about worlds better the F-22 is about as close to perfect as you will get for a manned aircraft the russians may match it but I doubt the new aircraft will be any better you can only do so much when you have someone flying it with what the human body can stand.

That is one long sentence.
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:44 am



Quoting CheetahC (Reply 23):
That is one long sentence.

Too much Coffee!!!
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:06 am



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 24):
Too much Coffee!!!

...And propoganda  cheeky 
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:50 pm

Wow, that delta-winged impression reminds me of the 1980s!

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Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:50 am

The Berkut with its new belly since it joined the PAK-FA program

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=179722&d=1260899151

Also, this drawing has been floating around the net recently.
http://paralay.com/t50/50_02.jpg
 
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N328KF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:38 pm



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 26):
Wow, that delta-winged impression reminds me of the 1980s!

That's exactly what I was thinking. To me, the F-19 was the most "beautiful" stealth fighter. It would have been nice to have had that capability, but really, a couple decades later, the F-22 is capable of even more.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
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Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:35 pm

According to this article, the PAK-FA started taxi runs around the KnAAPO facilities.

Its in russian, though.

http://lenta.ru/news/2009/12/24/pakfa/
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:40 pm



Quoting Acheron (Reply 29):
According to this article, the PAK-FA started taxi runs around the KnAAPO facilities.

Its in russian, though.

http://lenta.ru/news/2009/12/24/pakfa/

As we know, after taxi trials comes first flight... In English:

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20091223/157334042.html

Quote:
Russia could start tests of its fifth-generation fighter in late 2009 or early 2010, a deputy prime minister said on Wednesday.

"We are not making any New Year presents, but flight tests will start in the very near future," said Sergei Ivanov, who oversees the defense sectors of industry.

Happy holidays!  santahat 
 
sovietjet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:54 am

Getting closer...I really hope they unveil it to the public during the first flight as I am very curious to see what it looks like

http://www.russiandefenseblog.org/?p=766
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:14 pm

Apparently yesterday, another high speed run was made where the aircraft managed to rise its nose landing gear from the ground before deploying the brake chute. This time photographers were allowed so we might see some pictures soon.

Someone also made a brief description of the plane as "when you look at it from far away, it looks a bit ridiculous, with its tail raised high and the nose pointing down. Its completely flat and only rises a bit around the cockpit area. The vertical stabilizers are clean, angled trapezoids and complete(I understood this part as the vertical stabilizers and rudder beeing a single element, like the F-117). When you are not looking at it from the front or the side but a 3/4 view, it gives an odd feeling. Its hard to describe with words"



And according to some article, apparently the name will be Su-50.

[Edited 2010-01-23 09:22:52]
 
Oroka
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:18 am

There would be pics everywhere if someone was allowed to take pictures.

Still cant wait so see this bird.
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:40 am

I've read that the first flight might be this Thursday the 28th.

I'll hope that there are plenty photos taken!
 
tu204
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:10 pm

My fiance is a programmer for NIIP, the company designing the radar for the pak fa. I showed her this thread and asked her how she thinks the thing will look. She laughed and said: two wings, two engines, a fusulage containing the cocpit and a tail. Fair to say that I nearly spit my beer all over her while keeping myself from laughing. I cant tell if she actually doesn't know or if she is not telling me because my big mouth.  Wink They are also fine tuning the su-35 and she had detailed specs of it. hmmmm
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
sovietjet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:18 pm

I heard from some people that this week will be the first flight. Let's see if that is true.
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:32 am



Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 36):
I heard from some people that this week will be the first flight. Let's see if that is true.

The first flight was scheduled for this morning (28th Jan) European time but has been postponed. New try tomorrow...

http://translate.google.com/translat...s/2010/01/28/delay1/&sl=auto&tl=en
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:37 pm



Quoting TGIF (Reply 37):
The first flight was scheduled for this morning (28th Jan) European time but has been postponed. New try tomorrow...

I seriously can't wait to see her! I'll admit that I have high expectations.
 
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vivekman2006
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:57 am

Very exciting. Can't wait to see it take to the skies.

It is news to watch out for in India as well, because of this.  

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ALkJrhiMs23UKcJkD1_XmjZBGtr9gh7OVA

- Vivek
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:20 am

It has apparently taken off and landed. First flight lasted for 45 minutes and was "successful". Can't wait to see the pictures.

Congrats to the Russians!

From Lenta.ru http://translate.google.com/translat...01%2F29%2Ffighter%2F&sl=auto&tl=en

Continued on: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...ALkJrhiO43uaoDfyILd2kT_ru14BLczAdg
 
sovietjet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:59 am

I was following it live on the Russian forums where a guy was posting directly from the location with updates...that's about as close as I got to see the first flight live!!

Waiting for photos and videos now  
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:12 am

Horrible quality... but it's something...

http://s13.radikal.ru/i186/1001/7c/30c6b991f9f5.png

Edit: and a video http://www.youtube.com/user/woodielist#p/a/u/0/mp0yd6no7B4

[Edited 2010-01-28 22:22:40]

Edit 2: Which looks to be from the high speed taxi trials from Tuesday/Wednesday...

[Edited 2010-01-28 22:24:28]
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:23 am

Awesome!

More:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106756&d=1264749361

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106757&d=1264749364

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106755&d=1264749358



Video Stills:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/zmeysmirnoff/pak-fa2.jpg

http://forum.na-svyazi.ru/uploads/post-5485-1264745068.jpg

^The cameraman managed to chop the nose out of the side-on view.



There is a chance that the nozzle design might be different on the production version since it will recieve new engines. This prototype uses older engines.
 
 
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vivekman2006
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:53 am

Excellent, excellent news! Congratulations to Sukhoi..........

Can't wait to see more pictures of this bird. It certainly looks awesome  

- Vivek
 
TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:33 pm



Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 13):
This is the rendering FlightGlobal published a while ago:


This seems to be the most accurate rendering. I believe it originated from NPO Staturn.

 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:41 pm

What a beauty considering 5th gen planes aren't exactly pretty.

In this picture you can see the tandem weapons bay and the spot for the IRST.

http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=8743

[Edited 2010-01-29 04:46:31]
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:20 pm

Looks a lot like the YF-23 to me. Very interesting, I think the stubby tailplanes will take a while to grow on me though.
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Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:57 pm

http://paralay.com/t50/le_radar.jpg

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