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HAWK21M
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:02 pm



Quoting Tu204 (Reply 3):
I expect that we will not see a photo of the PAK-FA untill at least 6 month after its maiden flight.

There were some out on the net.
I heard 2010 is the year.
regds
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yyzala
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:37 pm

WOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWOW. The first thing I did after I woke up is check here!! The plane looks simply amazing. It is me or is the PAK FA much larger in terms of wingtip to wingtip, compared to F-22? Regardless, I wish this plane a prosperous flying career  
 
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pylon101
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:12 pm

There is such a huge wave of publications here in Russia today.
It made me confused as no specifications were released as of yet.
Reporters - as it used to be - give different max. speed, range.

In terms of costs/capabilities - is it closer to F-22 or F-35? Or something in between?
It was stated that even to India (I understand India provided partial funding) some systems would be restricted.
Which looks like US F-22/F-35 approach.

Any ideas?
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
GolfOscarDelta
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:38 pm



Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 43):
^The cameraman managed to chop the nose out of the side-on view.

A longish fuselage with widely spaced engines buried in the wing such that the top of the engine shows up above the wing and with stubby SR-71 style vertical tails atop them, it quite resembles an SR-71 in that side shot i must say.
 
blrsea
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:08 pm

Found a video of PAK-FA (T-50) doing it's first flight on you tube. Looks great! Has take-off, landing and in-flight video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S67zfmEqGxQ

[Edited 2010-01-29 14:25:42 by blrsea]
 
 
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:17 pm

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:50 am

The weapons bays are huge. I wonder where the WVR missiles bays are located...

 
checksixx
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:05 am

Clearly looks like a cross between the F-22 and YF-23. Not impressed.
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:09 am

Sorry to be the dampener here but it seems our beloved indian governments penchant for wasting money on poor design choices (or get railroaded into them by the russian our beloved DRDO (defence rejects and disasters organisation) comes to the fore here

1) Notice the engines

a) other than the basic oblique semi shielded engine placement (as in the su-27 and mig 29) there seems to be no obvious engine shielding of the JSF and JF-17 (one prototype) type. Someone on bharat rakshak has drawn a speculative ( and BR has for a while now been given to excessive speculation and flights of fancy - see their agni mssile page for example) flow of how they may be internally shielded BUT from this pic the wheel placement seems to block any neccesary width to allow for such a geometry

With the f22 while the intake geometry overlaps the engines the weapons bay placement right in front of the engines logically suggests total shielding see bottom left image in link below
http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/images/F22.jpg


http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415336&stpid=65

b) the entire engine seems unsheathed top and bottom much like the current sukhois which means the IR signature will be significant. even the Mig 1.44 that came out 10-12 years back had better heat sheathing than this. This affects not just rear top and bottom stealth but radiated heat from the top and bottom will also creat a visible heat corona in the front approach

c) This plane is very obviously lacking some of the JSF's breakthrough features such as the conformal electro optical targetting system, the distributive aperture sub system, which means for ground attack it will have to carry external targetting pods and watching out for missiles and fighters in the rear will be manual and a major league pain in the posterior

http://pilot.strizhi.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Snapshot10.jpg

d) the IRST is very obviously external and so obviously not stealth as is another bump behind the cockpit

e) take a look at this pic
http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415336&stpid=65

i am simply astounded at the stupidity (and contradiction) of putting serrated edge bay doors (in this case presumably for the re-fuelling pod) while the quality of the jointing is of a most atrocious quality. Notice how many badly aligned screws are visible and even in this lowish resolution image their lack of flush alignment is all too obvious. Its a bit like montserrat caballe wearing black cuz she thinks it looks " slimming" on her - FAT CHANCE LADY!!!

presumably such shoddy finishing carries on on the rest of the plane as well

truly a case for " for want of a nail the kingdom was lost"

f) A further conntradiction is the limited rear visibility when

1.1 the lack of a rearward DASS array mean the back is basically a fully blind spot
1.2 built in supermanouverability added to unrestricted rear vision could have been a symbiotic plus

g) IMHO this is merely a superficially fifth generation grand stander. The true under the skin, construction, finish challenges of fifth gen have not been met
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alberchico
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:31 am



Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):
1) Notice the engines

The engines pictured here are not the ones that will be fitted to the final production version. Perhaps the future powerplant will then be fully accomodated into the fueselage. Mabye they dont want to waste engineering sources on an interim engine.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):
c) This plane is very obviously lacking some of the JSF's breakthrough features

Remember this is just the first prototpe. Its primary job is to confirm whether the design is airworthy and to explore the basic flight envelope. Other aircraft will be integrated with full avionics engines and sensors.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):
d) the IRST is very obviously external and so obviously not stealth as is another bump
behind the cockpit

Mabye its also an interim design.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):
f) A further conntradiction is the limited rear visibility when

In a stealth fighter all engagements will be made in BVR mode with the help of long range AESA radar so whats the point of having good visibility ? Remember the advent of stealth fighters also means that the age of the dogfight is drawing to a close.
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ThePointblank
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 60):
In a stealth fighter all engagements will be made in BVR mode with the help of long range AESA radar so whats the point of having good visibility ? Remember the advent of stealth fighters also means that the age of the dogfight is drawing to a close.

That's what they said when the radar guided air to air missile was introduced. And we all know how well that faired out.

[Edited 2010-01-29 20:55:20]
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:08 am



Quoting Acheron (Reply 57):
The weapons bays are huge. I wonder where the WVR missiles bays are located...

outboard of the (moveable) LERX, just outboard of the main gear. One bay per wing.
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moriarty
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:52 am

Well, I'm impressed. It looks really neat. Like a mix between the stealth of F-22 and the raw power of the SU-30 something.

Congratulations to a successful first flight!
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pylon101
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:13 am

After reading tons of stuff related I guessed it would be to early to jump to conclusions and make any F-22/F-35/T-50 cross-examinations.

For the Russian aviation industry it's a big step forward after many years of stall.
I assumed they hardly had had a goal to match F-22 as a possibility of direct confrontation with US is near zero.
They obviously had in mind F-35 as that one is going to compete on market.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:11 pm

Reply to Alberchico (post 60)

Too many maybes. If what you suggest is true a full 50% of this plane may have to be modified, engine housing, intakes, altered handling because of body modification, plus a whole host of internal changes etc etc etc. from what i read the Al-41 (the final intended engine) was ready to go some 4 years back, so why wouldnt they have fitted it.

Also if any air force really believed that the era of dogfights was drawing to a close why did they insist on supermanouverability? also why the DASS on the f-35 ? it was installed precisely to take a significant portion of the human element out of dogfights and evasive action against ground based missiles?

Remember in the balance between weapons carriage, manouverability and stealth the russians have prioritised stealth only to the extent that it serves the other two. IE it is stealth lacking and will in all probability given unassailable western electronic superiority have to engage in dogfights.
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spudh
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:24 pm

That underside shot is all Tomcat, real similarity with the Grumman VFX design 303F with the fixed wings

Plane looks great though
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:16 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 60):
Remember the advent of stealth fighters also means that the age of the dogfight is drawing to a close.


this might be a stupid question,but how would it be if both side fly around up there with "invisible" planes?
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TGIF
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:20 pm



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 58):
Clearly looks like a cross between the F-22 and YF-23. Not impressed.

Artistic impressions have been circling the net for over a year. Many suggesting it would resemble the F-22 but with the engines seperated. What were you expecting? There are only so many ways to build a fighter...

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):

You are drawing a lot of conclusions only based on a first flight of a prototype.I think we'll have to wait and see before we can truly asses the T-50.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 62):
Quoting Acheron (Reply 57):
The weapons bays are huge. I wonder where the WVR missiles bays are located...

outboard of the (moveable) LERX, just outboard of the main gear. One bay per wing.

In the circled area I guess. It's said that the PAK FA shall be able to carry 10 missiles internally. Eight would perhaps fit in the center weapon bays so one under each LERX would make it a total of 10.




I've read in many forums that the T-50 resembles the YF-23. I can't see any other similarities apart from the separated engines. I took the liberty to compose an image showing the F-22, T-50 and YF-23. I think the T-50 have more in common with the F-22 than the YF-23. But that's just MHO.



The T-50 is a looker, but I think the F-22 is more beautiful (again MHO)...
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:35 pm



Quoting Checksixx (Reply 58):
Clearly looks like a cross between the F-22 and YF-23

I see some resemblance of the YF-23 in the nose but I don't see the F-22 anywhere else other than maybe the wing. But hey, when people goes under the assumption that the russians copy everything, is not surprising to read such comments

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):

Like it was mentioned, lots of assumptions considering this is just a prototype that its going to change a lot in the next few years. I don't know if you are familiar with the way the russians build planes but they do incremental improvements with each prototype they build and the final result rarely looks anything like the first prototype. The best example of this is the Flanker family.

T-10-1


Final Su-27


So, its way too early to make any projections of what the planes capabilities are going to be. But if the start looks like it does, it surely has a goddamn bright future.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 65):
Too many maybes.

Exactly the same thing you did in the previous post. And if you look closely at some of the pictures, you can see the S ducting for the engines.
 
flagon
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:49 pm

Guys
just in case this has not be posted yet
a video of the first flight from a russian site... you have to be patient...
http://lenta.ru/video/mil/pakfa/
cheers
Stephane
 
flagon
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:54 pm

this plane actually reminds me the YF22, rather than the F22
Stephane
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:00 am



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 9):
Really? the US had the F117 and the B-2 at least 8 years before even the american public knew they had them

But those were the Cold War days. Now they want to advertise their wares so they can get more sales!!

Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 64):
For the Russian aviation industry it's a big step forward after many years of stall.
I assumed they hardly had had a goal to match F-22 as a possibility of direct confrontation with US is near zero.
They obviously had in mind F-35 as that one is going to compete on market.

I think its a big step forward for the Russian aviation industry. However how will this impact on sales/development of the Mig-35/SU-35? They are at the prototype testing stage,and are classed as 4++ Gen. While great to see development it would be a shame to see any potential market split between the 3 and thus not returning the investment on any of them. Am assuming that the T-50 is aimed at current operators of the SU-27.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 69):
I don't know if you are familiar with the way the russians build planes but they do incremental improvements with each prototype they build and the final result rarely looks anything like the first prototype. The best example of this is the Flanker family.

I didn't realise the difference between the SU-27 and its prototype. Thats a big difference.


Any thoughts on a NATO 'F.......' codename yet? Personally I love the Fulcrum and Flanker,both seem to suit the aircraft.
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:39 am



Quoting TGIF (Reply 68):

TGIF point taken - but at this stage what exactly do we have to go on? ... the as yet undertermined unknown final configuration? maybe in its final config this plane could fy to the moon and back with a 16 ton weapons load but preliminary assessments can only be based on preliminary prototypes - if the quality/stealth of the plane improves so does the assessment. As of now my conclusions stand, harsh yes but still valid

Quoting Acheron (Reply 69):

No maybe's acheron - pls read the post carefully - as TGIF says lots of conlusions based on a prototype yes, but no maybes. Ive assessed this on what is visibile and geometrically obvious - no the russians may do this, the russian may do that or this maybe so or that maybe so.

As for its bright future - thats a given since anyone not on good terms witha americans wanting a 5 gen fighter will have no other option - i estimate it will corner about 1/3 rd of the market at least

Yes russians do tend to modify their planes a lot till the final production variant - so as i said this is a " PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS - BASED ON THE PRELIMINARY PLANE" BUT..... and i maintain this - lots of seemingly bad design choices that will take a lot to clean up.... Given the repeated, disatrous failures of the Bulava SLBM the one thing that is obvious is that russia has lost a lot of intellectual capital over the last 2 decades or so..... if they pull it off kudos to them , personally i prefer caution.

Photos of any suggested S ducting pls - as far i can see none of the kommersant or strizhi photos suggest S ducting nor is the geometry feasable. I would ask you to look at your own picture in post 57 of the belly view - sure the intake narrows but the narrowing lines lead straight to the engine and on the outboard side of that narrowing are the wheels - so sideways S ducting is geometrically unfeasable here. Next look at these pics

http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415338

http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415344

notice that this is probably the level flight stance of the plane and how the intake geometry is almost exactly halfway down from the engine..... and thats being generous by drawing a line from the top of the intake to the bottom of the engine. However if you note the engine placement is in a straight line with the intake IE both intake and engine are at a 10-15 degree depression from the aircraft planform ..... conclusion ... not fully shielded

As i said if you believe any photos show even deducable evidence of S ducting please do highlight the same for i can see none.
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checksixx
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:17 am



Quoting TGIF (Reply 68):
Quoting Checksixx (Reply 58):
Clearly looks like a cross between the F-22 and YF-23. Not impressed.

Artistic impressions have been circling the net for over a year. Many suggesting it would resemble the F-22 but with the engines seperated. What were you expecting? There are only so many ways to build a fighter...

I wasn't talking about the way they built it at all...I was referring to the design. Well I was expecting/hoping for one of the designs that had the intakes on the top of the jet actually. I figured they might be going that route, so naturally when I saw it, I wasn't that impressed. Thats all.

Quoting TGIF (Reply 68):
I've read in many forums that the T-50 resembles the YF-23. I can't see any other similarities apart from the separated engines.

Take a look at the vertical tails and how they operate.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 69):
I see some resemblance of the YF-23 in the nose but I don't see the F-22 anywhere else other than maybe the wing. But hey, when people goes under the assumption that the russians copy everything, is not surprising to read such comments

Geez man...cease fire. Yeah, I was referring to the wing as looking like the F-22's. I wasn't inferring that anything was copied. See above.
 
Acheron
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:28 am



Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 73):
As of now my conclusions stand, harsh yes but still valid



Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 73):
and i maintain this - lots of seemingly bad design choices that will take a lot to clean up

The fact that people that have worked and still work with the F-22, F-117 and F-35, read, people that know a thing or two about proper stealth design are impressed by the design of the PAK FA and some of the solutions tells me a lot more about the plane than your assesment.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 73):
Photos of any suggested S ducting pls - as far i can see none of the kommersant or strizhi photos suggest S ducting nor is the geometry feasable. I would ask you to look at your own picture in post 57 of the belly view - sure the intake narrows but the narrowing lines lead straight to the engine and on the outboard side of that narrowing are the wheels - so sideways S ducting is geometrically unfeasable here. Next look at these pics

If you actually bother to look at some of the pics, including some outside of pilot and kommersant, you can actually notice that the engines are not aligned with the inlets and actually sit higher and both engines point slightly inwards towards the center of the plane. Not to mention if you look at the belly shot, you can actually see that the gear actually takes a lot of space inside the inlet.
So yes, it is possible to have s-duct in it.

Compare it to that of the Flanker, which it IS straight
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3925/su35bmjanuarypresentatiql8.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/10y42v7.jpg
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:53 am



Quoting Acheron (Reply 75):

Acheron first, all i have said about the T-50 i have said about it and not about you, i have neither belittled you or your point of view though i disagree with it vehemently. However if you chose to cheapen yourself by resorting to below the belt remarks about someone's point of view being more valid than someone else's no matter how great or small - thats your call....... its a bit like going upto the boy from the emperor's new clothes and saying " excuse me little boy but do you have a degree in advanced textile engineering to make a determination that the emperor was in fact naked?" However if you cant carry on a civilised conversation without resorting to personalisation might i politely suggest you allow someone with more social deftness than yourself to reply? Thanking you in advance

I have seen your picture and would like to point out the physical impossibility you suggest

http://i49.tinypic.com/331m5gj.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/iqgd1j.jpg

if you however choose to keep playing with parralax error thats a game two can play

http://i47.tinypic.com/10o1nd0.jpg
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wvsuperhornet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:57 am



Quoting Acheron (Reply 75):
If you actually bother to look at some of the pics, including some outside of pilot and kommersant, you can actually notice that the engines are not aligned with the inlets and actually sit higher and both engines point slightly inwards towards the center of the plane. Not to mention if you look at the belly shot, you can actually see that the gear actually takes a lot of space inside the inlet.
So yes, it is possible to have s-duct in it.

Compare it to that of the Flanker, which it IS straight

The prototype flew with an upgraded SU-27 engine the engine that is going into it hasn't been developed yet before everyone gets their hopes up even Vladamir Putin noted there is still alot of work and development to do on the aircraft yet before it can be produced expect some delays remember they have been working on a new missle for their subs for the last 12 years and havent gotten it to work yet. Yes the aircraft is impressive but still needs alot of work to be on the same standards as the F-22 or even the eurofighter.
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:06 am



Quoting Wvsuperhornet (Reply 77):

Hey just wondering if you knew and links as to exactly what Putin said? i've been reading snippets translated into english here and there but no comprehensive whole. much appreciated - thanks
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r2rho
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:27 pm

Congrats to Sukhoi for this achievement! This is an important step for the Russian aviation industry, which is slowly coming back on scene.

As has been said, we shouldn't draw too many conclusions from a first prototype. This first flight simply marks the start of a long development process, but there is still a lot to be done. It still lacks the final engines, as well as any advanced avionics. This prototype will likeyl be used to validate the flight envelope, as well as the stealth design. I expect subsequent prototypes to incorporate modifcations - internal and external. In fact, my feeling is is that the word "prototype" should be interpreted in its traditional sense (what we call a demonstrator in the West these days), than what we now consider a prototype to be.
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:19 am

I found some 3 view drawings that some here might be interested in. If these are accurate, then it appears to have subtle s-ducting for the inlet and vectored thrust. I still wonder if Sukhoi will design a new nozzle when the new engine finishes development and testing?

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7048/510g.jpg

http://s51.radikal.ru/i134/1002/ee/72937aa68e33.jpg


...and something taken from a Russian newspaper that I can't read:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=109562&d=1266057434
 
A342
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:54 am

Quoting elpinDAB (Reply 80):

...and something taken from a Russian newspaper that I can't read:

But with only a little bit of guessing, the specs are pretty much self-explantory, aren't they? I don't speak Russian, but I get the following:

Two engines of a certain type, wing area 78.8m², endurance 3.3 hours, one pilot (with option for a dual-seat version), supercruise speed M1.7-1.8, max. speed M2.45, combat radius 2000km, service ceiling 20000m, max. takeoff weight 37000kg.

Plus I guess a 30mm gun (GSh-301?) and a weapons load of 10 tonnes.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
egronenthal
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:25 pm

Excellent design and program analysis released by Air Power Australia today...

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html
 
Marcus
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:39 pm

Very interesting read.....but what I find most interesting in this article is how it basically says stop everything on the JSF and instead upgrade the F-22 and build more of them.

Will this airplane be the game changer...or should I say level the playing field, like the analysis makes it out to be?
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SeJoWa
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:48 pm

A very long read too... APA is IIRC a rather vehement critic of the F-35. While stopping production of the F-22 was certainly short sighted, doing the same to the F-35 would be equally strange. The problem with the future is that it's hard to predict, and a diversified, less homogenous Air Force would be a) harder to pin down and b) have a greater choice of responses to unknown threats and conditions.

It would be utterly foolish to assume our potential adversaries and competitors are going to accept a status quo where the USAF rules the roost. If this one won't alter the balance, the next one will. And yet, designing, producing and fielding such a fighter is not trivial. Maybe the greater threat is not posed by one single type of aircraft, but by the development and proliferation of better technology. In that sense, the PAK-FA is a marker to watch.

I wonder if the Russians would as "readily" surrender its technology to the Chinese as has been the case with Su 30-MKK.
 
EA772LR
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:01 pm

Looks like a cheap knock off of the F-22 if you ask me. I think it's actually pretty ridiculous to building fighters of this nature when UAV/UCAVs will only get better and better. The 'glory days' of dog fighting are over.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
GolfOscarDelta
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:35 pm

So to settle the argument about the S ducting and exposed fan blades, here's a frontal pic showing exposed fan blades.

Disclaimer: I take no one's side on the argument that was going on here about the S-ducting, but i came across a picture that i thought would be good to share and thats about it.

I guess we will need to wait for the prototype to evaluate the PAK-FA's stealthiness, considering that the current aircraft is only a technology demonstrator.

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs476.ash1/26108_378970468603_277917788603_3576986_4525540_n.jpg

(Pic courtesy of Facebook via Amarendra)
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:23 pm

Leaders not impressed by new Russian fighter - Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20.../airforce_russian_fighter_032210w/

Quoting GolfOscarDelta (Reply 86):
So to settle the argument about the S ducting and exposed fan blades, here's a frontal pic showing exposed fan blades

Thanks - good stuff - but as you said -we'll wait for the final edition, that said developing the final t-10 from the prototype was a bygone era with 80's tech. given the sheer technological complexity involved with 5th gen fighters I doubt very much if all the changes people keep speculating about can be added on in blocks without changing the aircraft completely. If such modification was all that easy Airbus would have come out with a twin engine A-340 to effectively compete with the 777.

Quoting SeJoWa (Reply 84):
A very long read too... APA is IIRC a rather vehement critic of the F-35

their bias removes any hint of objectivity in their analysis. Note how they speculate that the rear end stealth issues with the t-50 "can easily be sorted out" but then deny the same benefit to the ability of American designers to sort out the F-35's rear end at a later date.

Also Dr Kopp mentions not a word about the sub standard jointing on the T-50 and how all those joints - every single one will have to be redesigned into saw tooths as opposed to just 4 at the moment (one on either side of the cockpit and the 2 bomb bays)
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Kiwirob
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:24 am

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 87):
If such modification was all that easy Airbus would have come out with a twin engine A-340 to effectively compete with the 777.

I thought they did, the A330  
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:30 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 88):

initially yes but as it turned out more of a 767 killer while the 777 slaughtered the 340. Not enough mtow, or range and no 330-500 and 330-600 variants to compete effectively with the 200LR and 300ER.
Vi veri universum vivus vici
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:07 pm

Saw this piece by chance. Replete with commentary.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...ak-fa-idas-unclassified-analy.html

.....for what it's worth. Make of it what you may.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:44 am

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 87):
Also Dr Kopp mentions not a word about the sub standard jointing on the T-50 and how all those joints - every single one will have to be redesigned into saw tooths as opposed to just 4 at the moment (one on either side of the cockpit and the 2 bomb bays

But isn't the consensus that the Russians may have decided against all saw-tooth joins. Obviously they put in in for the weapon bays,maybe they have something else for the other bays or decided it wasn't as important in those areas. Its only sub-standard if you think saw-tooth is the only option.

A problem with discussing this aircraft is that many posters are coming form the US/NATO school of thought and are comparing directly with the F-22/F-35. The Russians may have slightly different misison parameters and/or performance priorities.......
 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:43 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 91):
only sub-standard if you think saw-tooth is the only option

True - But there's a whole lot that's sub standard in this plane - The screws-rivets-saw tooth edges-rear hemisphere shaping - the exposed engine etc etc. Saw tooth is one small part of a whole range of bad design choices for this plane starting with not using the cockpit canopy as a natural shield for two engines placed closely together. Pls see reply 59 here


Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 59):
e) take a look at this pic
http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415336&stpid=65

i am simply astounded at the stupidity (and contradiction) of putting serrated edge bay doors (in this case presumably for the re-fuelling pod) while the quality of the jointing is of a most atrocious quality. Notice how many badly aligned screws are visible and even in this lowish resolution image their lack of flush alignment is all too obvious. Its a bit like montserrat caballe wearing black cuz she thinks it looks " slimming" on her - FAT CHANCE LADY!!!
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 91):
A problem with discussing this aircraft is that many posters are coming form the US/NATO school of thought and are comparing directly with the F-22/F-35.

This will always happen - cant be avoided since you always analyse a threat based on your own strategic culture. The point is the F-22 F-35 will be the only "peer" competitors to this plane - and from what i've seen i'm convinced that out purchase of 72 F-35's is "adequate" to defend against this

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 91):
The Russians may have slightly different mission parameters and/or performance priorities

Yes but one of those priorities has to be to take down f-22, f-35s. In a heads on while I have no doubt that the Pak-fa can run rings around them in a dogfight - I'm afraid the f-35/22 will "see" the t-50 long before they're "seen" . I know the "dogfights are irrelevant" brigade was severely mauled by the Vietnam war - but I have a feeling they've finally arrived. In many ways the F-35's DAS will do for dogfighting what the AA-11's off-bore-sight targeting did for dogfights in the 90's ... remember how the AA-11 equipped mig-29A's that FRG inherited from GDR slaughtered NATO fighters ? this is just taking that same philosophy to a all new level
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A342
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:13 pm

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 92):
I'm afraid the f-35/22 will "see" the t-50 long before they're "seen" .

Incorrect. As soon as any aircraft turns on its radar, it can be detected.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
mffoda
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:35 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 93):

actice vs. passsive .... I agree and disagree.... don't want to speak to actual capabilities... but there are some cool technologies out there...aren't there???   
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
sovietjet
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:21 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 93):
Incorrect. As soon as any aircraft turns on its radar, it can be detected.

I believe the F-22 radar is designed to switch frequencies several hundred times per second in order to avoid detection. This picture showing the fan blades might not be actual fan blades but looks more like the inlet guide vanes similar to the ones on the super hornet. These are designed to block a lot of the compressor.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ivan Voukadinov - BGspotters

 
Shmertspionem
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:11 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 93):
Incorrect. As soon as any aircraft turns on its radar, it can be detected

Or even without the radar if you're within a certain distance -

see soviet jets reply re: low probability of intercept radars (reply 95) - also

The point here is in the radar off mode - you have three options

1) visual sighting (F-35 wins due to DAS)

2) IR sighting (F-22 loses cus it doesn't have IRST - but T-50 and F-35 are even - sensor wise - f-35 loses in rear hemisphere - due to large engine, T-50 loses in front and side hemisphere due to frontal heat signature leakage from the "radar blocker" and heat corona from exposed engine top and bottom)

3) Course vectoring by nearby AWACS or F-22/F-35 acting as a missile magnet in keeping with the unique American battle ideology of Offensive air superiority (i.e. make yourself visible and force the enemy to come out and fight you) (F-22 and F-35 win because as the T-50 takes the bait - even in radar off mode its lesser stealth means it will be detected before the f-35 and f-22 get detected)

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 95):
This picture showing the fan blades might not be actual fan blades but looks more like the inlet guide vanes similar to the ones on the super hornet.

That's the speculation - but remember fan blades provide far less stealth than S-ducts and engine shielding. more in the range of 0 to -5,-10 dbsm as opposed to -20 for the F-35, -30 for the f-22 and close to -40 for the B-2. The radar blocker does just that - It Blocks but doesn't Evade. Remember when STEALTH was coined as an acronym it applied to STrategic EVasion And the abiLity To Hide.................................... strategic evasion, not strategic blocking.



Quoting mffoda (Reply 94):
but there are some cool technologies out there

The 2 "cool" techs i heard about evidently don't work - The plasma stealth that we heard so much about is a dead end cuz it lights up the fighter like a beacon. And active signature cancellation is way outside Russia's league given they neither have the sophistication to produce a world class computer nor the willpower to even complete one pathetic little ballistic missile that's been bogged down for the last 17 years...... on the flip side it did provide the Norwegians with a spectacular fireworks display earlier this year.
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Eagleboy
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:47 am

In terms of the discusiion about fan blades and S-ducting: The engines installe din the prototype ARE NOT the actual engines to be in the production model. On another thread a poster put up a photo of the SU-27 prototype, it looked quite different to the eventual production model. While it is true that shoddy workmanship and/or finishing will scupper any production aircraft perhaps they are just putting the current aircraft in the air,maybe later prototype will have the better finish. Although it seems mad not to have a top quality finish from the start.

So perhaps the Russian will read A.Net and alter the design accordingly!!
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Sat May 01, 2010 11:37 am

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 97):
So perhaps the Russian will read A.Net and alter the design accordingly!!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © airwolf


Naaah. This would need a sparring partner    .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/th...6/f-15-silent-eagle-the-movie.html

 
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travelavnut
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RE: Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA - Any News?

Wed May 19, 2010 9:10 pm

New footage! She does look sexy 

"Russian-Indian Stealth Fighter Test Flight. New footage

PAK FA during testing in Siberia. Absolutely stunning, what i've been waiting to see the Engines with Thrust Vectoring Control.
"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6dc_1274280680

It say Russian-Indian in the title. Is this correct?
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