Moderators: richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
seefivein
Topic Author
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:52 pm

Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:09 pm

Missing in Humanitarian Relief Action

I might have missed the photo’s or camera angles at the Haiti airport, I don’t see any C5's

Is this not what the C5's main purpose is, bring a lot of stuff in as little trips as Possible?

If they can fly in a C-130 from NJ - why not a C5 ?
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11171
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:25 pm

The C-5s may have other military taskings right now, plus some in depot and RERP. C-17s have flown relief supplies into Haiti in the past 2-3 days. There are two C-17s at FWH right now to upload releif supplies and people (including 7 volunteer Doctors from the DFW arae) to go to Haiti today.
 
mechatnew
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:59 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:37 pm

I belive there are some aircraft parking issues, and taxiway strengh issues at the airports in Haiti. I think the there were a few C-5 flights that brought in some haevy equipment.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:46 pm

Ramp space is precious. Can't afford to have a C-5 break there.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6215
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:55 pm

C-5's are too big for normal operations at the airport. In this emergency they have to basically shut down the airport while the C-5 is unloaded and takes back off.

The airport is one runway 9970 ft x 140 ft runway with turning pads on both ends. Ther is a small ramp on the east end - unable to take the C-5 weight. There is no parallel taxiway. One mid-point taxiway 70 ft wide to a ramp that is 300 feet deep by 2,500 feet long.

The C-5 wing span means when the aircraft is on the ramp, no other aircraft can move - so at leawst 1/2 of the ramp is blocked.

The C-5 has a great capacity but should only be used when it carries something no other aircraft can carry. Two C-17 can operate on the ramp carefully.

Another factor against operating the C-5 is the aircraft weight. It has to land heavy because it must carry fuel for it's flight out of MTPP/ PAP. There is no fuel available on Haiti.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:52 pm

C-5s weren't tasked by TACC because of space, as several already stated above. The airport is just too small to handle it. I brought up to my friend that this would be the perfect time to show off the C-5Ms, but again, the space issue is the primary reason. Too bad they don't do air drops anymore, they could drop in a crapload of MREs and bottled water.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
The C-5s may have other military taskings right now, plus some in depot and RERP

The two jets in RERP and normal depot load doesn't really cut into the availability of C-5s. Westover has 8 C-5s FMC but not enough crews to fly them. Many of the C-5s are though currently shuffling stuff over the pond (if not broke in Rota and Ramstein). After all, they are putting another 30K troops in Afghaniland.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:28 pm

From what I've seen, the AN-124 is also "missing". As others have noted, space on the ground is the issue; not space in the cargo hold.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
BladeLWS
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:38 pm

When the time comes we may see C-5's doing airdrops of heavy equipment into prepared areas.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:41 pm



Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 7):
When the time comes we may see C-5's doing airdrops of heavy equipment into prepared areas.

.. and there'll be freeze warnings in hell too....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:32 pm



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 6):
From what I've seen, the AN-124 is also "missing". As others have noted, space on the ground is the issue; not space in the cargo hold.

I doubt they'd send AN-124s in anyways. Most of them are too busy with other things; its not like they are in abundance either!
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4605
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:02 pm

Military aircraft so far include:

C-17 (US, Canada)

C-130E/H (Canada, Colombia, US (AF/CG), Jordan, Venezuela

C-130J (Italy)

Mil types in civvie use: C-130, An-12, IL-76.

Lots of different types, all maxing out at IL-76 or C-17 size. China is sending in a B744F, we'll see how that affects things.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6215
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:55 am



Quoting Spacepope (Reply 10):
China is sending in a B744F, we'll see how that affects things.

China's A332 was a huge bottleneck. Hopefully their B744F will at least arrive with unloading equipment and fuel to make it back out of the airport.

The thread on Civil Aviation shows a B747 at PAP, so they can handle it, probably leaving the wings and engines out over the grass.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:42 am

This whole operation sounds like a charlie foxtrot, I think a good model would be the Berlin Airlift with everybody flying in at a timed interval with crews staying at their acft ready to start engines as soon as the K loader clears the wing and get it timed what it takes to unload each type of acft.
Plus a paraellel taxiway being built quickly would help also. I am afraid this will be a valiant effort but also futile also due to size of the effected population and the required staples of life to keep them alive, I think most countries will have to take some of these refugees in or we will watch a UN unintentional genocide take place. That one runway is not enough to feed PAP let alone the rest of Haiti.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4605
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:00 am



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 12):
I am afraid this will be a valiant effort but also futile also due to size of the effected population and the required staples of life to keep them alive,

I think you're completely right. Thank goodness it hasn't started raining.

USAF engineers are evaluating putting aluminum mats down for more parking spots, which will help things improve slightly.

It's a good thing the Carl Vinson brought along the Seabees. That port needs to be operational yesterday. It'd be a shame when USNS Comfort gets to Haiti, and there is nowhere to berth her.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:29 pm



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 12):
I think a good model would be the Berlin Airlift with everybody flying in at a timed interval with crews staying at their acft ready to start engines as soon as the K loader clears the wing and get it timed what it takes to unload each type of acft.

Won't work. Too many different types of aircraft and different operating philosophies. K-loader useless in many cases because many non-USAF aircraft don't use the 463L system. Takes too much coordination and time between the various countries and operating agencies - they'll have the piers operational long before that happens.

BTDT

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 13):
It'd be a shame when USNS Comfort gets to Haiti, and there is nowhere to berth her.

SOP for Comfort & Mercy (converted oil tankers) is to helo folks into the ship direct from the pickup location vs changing modes of transportation at the pier. This speeds up patient delivery, keeps the ship out of the way, and improves security.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:40 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 14):
Won't work. Too many different types of aircraft and different operating philosophies. K-loader useless in many cases because many non-USAF aircraft don't use the 463L system. Takes too much coordination and time between the various countries and operating agencies - they'll have the piers operational long before that happens.

With the different pallets I imagine it creats a bottleneck, at least if they were using or chartering 747's or other commercial cargo birds that contract to mil air they could quickly change to the 463L. Most Atlas's 747's can be swapped in about a hour to mil to civilian pallets.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:47 pm



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 15):
With the different pallets I imagine it creats a bottleneck, at least if they were using or chartering 747's or other commercial cargo birds that contract to mil air they could quickly change to the 463L. Most Atlas's 747's can be swapped in about a hour to mil to civilian pallets.

Many countries don't even use pallets - former Soviet block for instance. Or have no means of doing mass offloads, everything comes off as loose load. What a pain - and I mean that in the literal sense BTW.

Oh, and then the countries that do use pallets need them back to continue the lift. So outbound pallets become a priority at some point....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:56 am

2 C-5s went to Haiti today. I assume since they have an organized aircraft plan at the airport, they can get them in and out in a timely manner.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:37 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 17):
2 C-5s went to Haiti today

I've seen no C-5s on the schedule for MTPP. Many C-17s & C-130s, an occasional 767/757, DC-8, and 737, but no FRED. Maybe they went to Domican Republic? My guess would be that they have gone further afield to pickup an outsized load and will bring it back later in the week.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:13 pm

My mistake; they are landing in Homestead, not Haiti; I know they could land there no problem, but the space issue has to be the reasoning of why they aren't.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:23 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 19):
they are landing in Homestead, not Haiti

 checkmark  Looks like the 130s are doing double shuttles between MTPP & KHST.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:33 pm

That and the 17s. CNN just showed 94-0070 firing up engines to leave. Question, do you have a way to track the military flights? I used to be able to when I was on active duty, but not since...just curious if there is a tracking site that monitors the C-5s, 17s, etc. in the air.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:37 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 21):
just curious if there is a tracking site that monitors the C-5s, 17s, etc. in the air.

Yes however requires CAC to access
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:13 pm

Unfortunately my retired ID card is no CAC card...Bummer, lol
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:10 am

Well you can tell this a civilian goverment run operation, I guess the POTUS wanted to put a civilian face on this to make the military take a back seat then found out that USID/UN can't no way respond like the US military can, wasted time.
Why can't we divert civilian aircraft to a location away to central locatgion so its cargo can be swapped to 463L pallets then brought in orderly to MTPP and be unloaded in a timely manner to reduce groundtime at MMPP. Also set up a tanker air bridge so jets don't have to land heavy with fuel so they can carry more cargo.
Saw General Honoree on tv and he is totally appalled on how things are being run.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:37 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 16):
Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 15):
With the different pallets I imagine it creats a bottleneck, at least if they were using or chartering 747's or other commercial cargo birds that contract to mil air they could quickly change to the 463L. Most Atlas's 747's can be swapped in about a hour to mil to civilian pallets.

Many countries don't even use pallets - former Soviet block for instance. Or have no means of doing mass offloads, everything comes off as loose load. What a pain - and I mean that in the literal sense BTW.

The Russians use pallets on their IL-76 (I´ve unloaded quite a few). They are square and thicker than the western ones (about 4" thick) and have eyes on the corners so that they can be moved with the internal crane of the aircraft.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 24):
Well you can tell this a civilian goverment run operation, I guess the POTUS wanted to put a civilian face on this to make the military take a back seat then found out that USID/UN can't no way respond like the US military can, wasted time.
Why can't we divert civilian aircraft to a location away to central locatgion so its cargo can be swapped to 463L pallets then brought in orderly to MTPP and be unloaded in a timely manner to reduce groundtime at MMPP. Also set up a tanker air bridge so jets don't have to land heavy with fuel so they can carry more cargo.
Saw General Honoree on tv and he is totally appalled on how things are being run.

I think the problem is that due to PR reasons every country wants it´s aircraft to be seen in PAP, e.g. the Chinese with their B744F.

I´ve read that Guantanamo Bay is now being used as a staging area, and the Cubans even agreed on US military aircraft to use their airspace.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
TropicBird
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:13 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:50 pm

Question:

Could it have been operationally possible to ferry helicopters such as CH-47's to Haiti from Florida via Guantanamo?
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6215
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:57 am



Quoting TropicBird (Reply 26):
Could it have been operationally possible to ferry helicopters such as CH-47's to Haiti from Florida via Guantanamo?

It is 611 nm direct HST-PAP and it is 440 nm HST-NBW. The ferry range listed on Wikipedia is 1,200 nm - so either flight would be possible.

Would have been easier to put them on the carrier Vinson, but I think they filled it with CH-53 helicopters. I believe the cargo capacity weight wise for both helicopters is about the same.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
boeing767mech
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:03 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:56 am

So here is a stupid question, Why don't they just load up a bunch of C-130's or C-17's and do LAPES drops off all the supplies that can handle a little bit of a rough ride, And then use the other aircraft for the medical equipment and various other items that don't like to get shaken up that much. Come on wouldn't it be faster and you could get more tonnage on the ground without really touching the ground.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:02 pm

Alot of people are saying the same thing, but the morons running the whole thing say that they are afraid of violence between people rushing to get stuff coming down; which is possible, but heck, there would be a heck of alot more survivors!
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:11 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ_o98_-PeA here is a news video on youtube about it, they have started doing a few air drops.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:23 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 29):
Alot of people are saying the same thing, but the morons running the whole thing say that they are afraid of violence between people rushing to get stuff coming down; which is possible, but heck, there would be a heck of alot more survivors!

Nope, you´ll have the strongest armed gang around hogging all the stuff and then selling it for profit on the black market.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:45 pm



Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 28):
Come on wouldn't it be faster and you could get more tonnage on the ground without really touching the ground.



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 29):
Alot of people are saying the same thing, but the morons running the whole thing say that they are afraid of violence between people rushing to get stuff coming down; which is possible, but heck, there would be a heck of alot more survivors!

I have participated in humanitarian airdrops in the past. There are a number of problems:

1. Civilians running out to "catch" the bundle, not understanding that it weighs several hundred pounds, resulting in death or injuries.

2. Civilians fighting over the goods.

3. Civilians with criminal intent recover the loads and "sell" them to the truly needy.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
TropicBird
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:13 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:08 pm

If they hadn't taken so long to get food and water out there, maybe people wouldn't be so desperate during airdrops. They should have ferried many CH-47's (with troops for security) in the first 24 hours from the US. Those aircraft could have moved the supplies from the airfield to various parts of the city. Fuel for those aircraft could have come from the aircraft carrier offshore or tankered in on C-17's etc.

Having said that, I guess a cynical person could say that by avoiding those airdrops, we can assure the bad people can die from hunger, thirst and lack of medical attention alongside the good people while they both wait way too many days for help on the ground to appear.

We can call it Mutually Assured Death (MAD).

[Edited 2010-01-21 15:11:17]
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:55 pm



Quoting TropicBird (Reply 33):
If they hadn't taken so long to get food and water out there, maybe people wouldn't be so desperate during airdrops. They should have ferried many CH-47's (with troops for security) in the first 24 hours from the US. Those aircraft could have moved the supplies from the airfield to various parts of the city. Fuel for those aircraft could have come from the aircraft carrier offshore or tankered in on C-17's etc.

CH-47 is a large and powerful helicopter. Where would you find a landing area big enough to accomodate it whilst simultaneously ensuring the safety of the civilian population in a city such as Port au Prince?
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
TropicBird
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:13 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:46 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
CH-47 is a large and powerful helicopter. Where would you find a landing area big enough to accomodate it whilst simultaneously ensuring the safety of the civilian population in a city such as Port au Prince?

The aircraft would 'sling load' the life giving supplies to a designated area away from people. A Blackhawk could carry security troops ahead of the CH-47's and have them repel on ropes to the ground to clear the drop zone or landing area. The Ops area at the airport for these helicopters could come from the adjacent grass areas.

The CH-47 can carry an awesome amount of material from underneath on two separate hooks. Once a drop area was secured, they could make continuous runs to and from the airport.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:16 am



Quoting TropicBird (Reply 35):
The aircraft would 'sling load' the life giving supplies to a designated area away from people.

Good luck accomplishing that in a city like Port au Prince....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 653
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:13 pm



Quoting TropicBird (Reply 33):
If they hadn't taken so long to get food and water out there, maybe people wouldn't be so desperate during airdrops.

Actually, with the country being so poor, I think they would of went crazy regardless of an earthquake or not. I understand they need to get some people on the ground right before the airdrop to distribute stuff, but the time they've taken in that decision wasteful to many lives.


On another note, I'm convinced that the C-5 isn't being used on fear of it breaking. The USAF contracted out a Russian AN-124 to deliver a mobile control tower instead of using one of the C-5s (which btw, 2 of the C-5Ms are just chillin' on the ground at Dover ready to go!). I really think them not using the C-5 is just another stake in the C-5A which will probably send some more to the boneyard. Yeah, they are using them to fly stuff to Homestead, but thats a huge waste of time transferring stuff to C-17s, when they can fly straight down and do the job of 2 C-17s in one flight. Bummer.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:48 pm



Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 37):
On another note, I'm convinced that the C-5 isn't being used on fear of it breaking.

That and the fact that they've got some the piers fixed reduces the need for FRED.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4605
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:59 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 38):
That and the fact that they've got some the piers fixed reduces the need for FRED.

Shush you. This is A.net. No room for facts.

I still think it's part of the DOD's program of "fly the wings off the AN-124". They're only god for 30,000 hours.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
cargotanker
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:41 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:12 am

Did any of you see that at least one Qatari C-17 made it to Haiti? Its getting a little more play amongst the Gulf media sites than the Euro/American media outlets. The Qataris only got their C-17s about six months ago so I was personally surprised to see them 'in action' relatively quickly. Events like the Haiti earthquake are primarily what Qatar purchased their C-17s for, an ability to respond to humanitarian missions and get recognized for it. Looks like their investestment 'paid off' pretty quickly.

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topic...sion=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56

I'll go out on a limb here (and coat it with a little bias towards the C-17) and predict the Haiti earthquake will at least partially contribute to more C-17 orders. UAE already ordered six. Qatar will probably order one or two more, Saudi Arabia may purchase a few now that Qatar has gotten favorable humanitarian publicity. Kuwait may even be a possibility. These are all rich Arab nations that have the extra money and a desire to act or at least appear generous, quite different from the cash-strapped nations like the US, UK, Canada etc that actually have a global strategic airlift need.
 
daveflys0509
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:15 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:26 pm

The Navy's C-2 Greyhounds also have been doing runs into Port Au Prince. They have been folding their wings in order to save space on the ramp for cargo unloading.
 
swf
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:59 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:58 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 33):

It takes forty eight hours, at least, for help to arrive in this type of disaster. Yes, we screwed the pooch on Katrina, but from what I heard from my EMS friends who went the Louisiana side was a mess, asking for Incident Commanders and support people who should have been in place, but weren't. The Mississippi side was ready and things went much better there. Walmart had trucks full of water on the road as soon as the storm started to wind down. We have infrastructure, Haiti does not. You have to establish that is it safe to go in, have a plan, follow and update the plan, keep track of your people, etc and continue to update and follow the plan. The Haiti situation is complicated by language, poverty, non existant government services, no preparedness and no supplies or training. There were no resources in place to get through the first 48 hours, no plan and everyone is afraid to let the Big Bad Wolf(the US military) take over and do this right. Now the world will be playing catch up for weeks and months. doesn't matter how many choppers, hercs, -17s, carriers and resources we send the most iimportant thing is to get help to those who need it and lift Haiti out of the world's gutter.
 
swf
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:59 pm

RE: Missing In Humanitarian Relief Action

Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:00 am

BTW, my wife asked the same question two days in when we saw one of the hangar queens flying around the flagpole trying to get into shape to go somewhere.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AirlineCritic, Google Adsense [Bot], Nean1 and 44 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos