I was watching a documentary about AF1 this afternoon, something pulled my attention when it was mentioned that airforce one can fly higher than a normal 747 and the speed is close to sound speed.
Is that true? if yes , does it mean that the president reach Europe in less than 5 hours from the east coast.
On the other hand, could the 748i fit the presidential need.
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
Its a 747-200 with a -300 wing you do the math or just google the specs on a 747.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
The 747-200/300s are certified to 45,100ft and generally cruise at 570mph. I haven't seen any different maximum altitude numbers for the presidential planes, but they are listed with a 630mph cruise. The engines are rated at 56,000 or so compared to 46,500 for the civilian models.
[Edited 2010-10-30 10:31:49]
[Edited 2010-10-30 10:31:49]
Anon
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
Typical cruise speed for the VC-25A is Mach .90. Maximum cruise is not disclosed.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose....
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting dw747400 (Reply 3): Maximum cruise is not disclosed. |
My guess is just shy of the wings coming of.... somewhere just over mach...
| Quoting kanban (Reply 4): I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose.... |
Paranoia.
What one could learn here is at worst the same as what is available publicly already. From speed to altitude to defensive capabilities. This is simply a discussion of already known facts that enthusiasts already know. We do not know anything that secret that would be threatening. Those that do know "the secret stuff" already know to not disclose such information.
This paranoia is why we are now getting felt up by TSA and have many other useless security procedures being imposed upon us. Sorry for the rant, I am not berating you but rather the general undercurrent of fear that exists nowadays.
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting kanban (Reply 4): I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose.... |
It's just a plane, and a vintage one at that. This is getting just a little bit too paranoid.
There is no drama in knowing that A6-MMM is a B747-422 (a beautiful plane by the way), so why the bother with knowing fairly generic details about a vintage series B747 classic?
So the B747 Presidential plane has engines just slightly less powerful than a B747-400? Interesting. I can't imagine its usual cruise speed would be greatly different to that of a regular B742/B743 - perhaps they might go closer to the B747 MMO than usual, but otherwise - I'd imagine no huge difference. It is still a B747 after all.
So it won't go doing wild flying, unless they want the scary results like the 747SP-09 that did go supersonic.
[Edited 2010-11-02 21:46:59]
[Edited 2010-11-02 21:48:34]
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
Part of the reason for higher thrust engines might have been to make the plane more flyable on two engines out since they were designed to operate in post nuclear attack conditions, which can be slightly less than optimal.
Anon
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting dw747400 (Reply 3): Typical cruise speed for the VC-25A is Mach .90. Maximum cruise is not disclosed. |
But it's probably exactly the same as the other 747 models. Except I'm sure it cruises faster since the government pays for the gas.
| Quoting cpd (Reply 6): So the B747 Presidential plane has engines just slightly less powerful than a B747-400? Interesting. |
It also doesn't have the requirement of hauling a full load of passengers, bags, and cargo LAX-SYD, so it doesn't need them.
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
President Bush stated that on 9/11 when they were heading back to DC, the escort they had requested that they slow down as they (the escort) were going to run out of fuel at their current speeds.
I'm sure that thing can haul.
I'm sure that thing can haul.
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting ua777222 (Reply 9): President Bush stated that on 9/11 when they were heading back to DC, the escort they had requested that they slow down as they (the escort) were going to run out of fuel at their current speeds. I'm sure that thing can haul. |
Several sources pin the F-15's economy cruise at 495kts at altitude. Given that they all seem to say exactly the same thing, it's likely they all copied from a common source, and who knows how accurate that is. But... Assuming that's TAS, at 35kft, that works out to Mach .85. And that's almost certainly a number for a clean airframe. Assuming the F-15s were packing (what good are they as escorts if they're not? And assuming that the escorts were, in fact, F-15s), the parasitic drag from the ordinance would shift best cruise down, probably significantly.
Then factor in just how short range a fighter is, even an F-15 (which has impressively long legs for a fighter), while a 747 with full tanks could fly half way across the country at limiting Mach and still probably arrive above MLW. So it's plausible, but it's more a comment on the capabilities of the F-15, rather than the 747.
You're basically asking Usain Bolt to run a distance race with Duncan Kibet – Bolt’s not going to look so good.
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
What speed AF1 cruises at depends heavily on which type of aircraft carries the designation at the time.
Were the president to be taking a backseat ride in an F-15D he'd go a lot faster than in a C-130...
Were the president to be taking a backseat ride in an F-15D he'd go a lot faster than in a C-130...
I wish I were flying
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting tugger (Reply 5): My guess is just shy of the wings coming of.... somewhere just over mach... |
What point would there be in doing that ? Sure, that's the "mighty VC-25", but still, going a little faster won't make it evade a Mach 2.5+ missile. Maybe for an emergency descent ? I'm thinking it's more likely the plane is fitted with some tricks like bigger spoilers and maybe can use reverses in flight, diving to the ground at supersonic speeds doesn't seem too smart, whatever the situation.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting Aesma (Reply 12): What point would there be in doing that ? Sure, that's the "mighty VC-25", but still, going a little faster won't make it evade a Mach 2.5+ missile. Maybe for an emergency descent ? I'm thinking it's more likely the plane is fitted with some tricks like bigger spoilers and maybe can use reverses in flight, diving to the ground at supersonic speeds doesn't seem too smart, whatever the situation. |
No, but I was addressing the question of "max cruise", which for the VC-25's would be whatever is called for in order to meet the needs of the president and/or nation, short of damaging either. I am sure its "normal" cruise is no different than other 747's nor do I doubt that being able to fly at/near mach would do much to defend against a missile. But I am sure the if needed it would "cruise" across the continent or ocean at a max speed that is significantly above what would be considered prudent for any other 747 because the aircraft itself is not what is important.
As long as "the wings don't come off" and it can still land safely (or not, there is supposedly an escape pod for the president), the plane ultimately will be flown to meet the needs of the president and nation.
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
| Quoting kanban (Reply 4): I suggest caution in posting details that are not commonly known... you never know who is reading them and for what purpose.... |
There is nothing special about the VC-25. It's a 747.. that's it. No escape pod, no hyper boost drive, no cloaking device.. it's a 747. Now the communication package...that is a different story.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
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RE: Air Force One Cruise And Speed
The cruise speed is dictated by the winds aloft, the distance to the distanation, and the "block" time that Air Force-1 must meet.
BTW, those fighters that escorted President Bush on 9/11 were F-16s with drop tanks and a full weapons load, not F-15s, which have a much longer range.
BTW, those fighters that escorted President Bush on 9/11 were F-16s with drop tanks and a full weapons load, not F-15s, which have a much longer range.