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Francoflier
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 42):
Other countries have had their citizens at war against each other and no one has been gung ho about doing anything to prevent it,

Yes, but none of those governments have openly threatened Western countries with state terrorism, not to mention that Ghaddafi's past foray into terrorism gives his threat plenty of credibility.

The argument of setting up a military op to 'protect the civilians' is of course convenient PC bogus. Khaddafi is a threat to the EU (and the US to a lesser extent), and governments are sick and tired of having to bend over backwards to the whims of a demented lunatic in order to maintain proper and peaceful diplomatic and commercial relations with Lybia.

Given the turn of events (and our dear Sarko's unfortunate endorsement of the rebellion), it was time to do something to get rid of him. I hope this UN resolution will give enough freedom of movement to bring him out the scene.

The good thing about it is that neighbouring Arab and African nations are heavily involved in the diplomatic proceedings.

Quoting par13del (Reply 45):
Any chance they shot down the rebel MIG in error?

I doubt it. At that time military flights were only doing act of presence to try and impress Ghaddafi's troops. And in any case, the no fly zone applies to both parties...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Confuscius
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:07 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 47):
Colonel Nut Job

When Gaddafi took over Libya he was a Lt. Colonel. 40+ years later he's only been promoted once to a full-bird Colonel? Hmmm...   

I guess that's better than the former Staff SGT from Liberia.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
highlander0
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:24 pm

Italy is playing it cautious as Libya used to be a colony. Indeed, they had to pay reparations a few years ago over that very matter.

OR NOT as the BBC have just said. Pentagon calling the British, French, Canadian and Italian force as 'Odyssey Dawn'.

Pentagon update- 110 Tomahawks launched from Naval platforms.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:45 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 44):
I asked this rhetorical question over on non-av. What happens if the mad colonel decides to keep his air force on the ground but press ahead with the ground assault. To effectively engage targets on the ground in a rapidly changing battlefield you need boots on the ground to designate targets. Is NATO willing to take this step? What if a plane goes down in hostile or even "friendly" territory. What sort of CSAR assets does NATO have close enough to make a difference?

This is an operation pushed for by the Arab nations. It is led and started by the French and now has the USA and several other European countries backing it up. No it's not a NATO operation at this time. Just alot of countires that also happen to be part of NATO doing a non NATO operation.


That is'nt to say that NATO wont get involved at a later point.

Countries involved / getting involved in some form:

France
Denmark
USA
UK
Norway
Spain
Italy
Germany
Canada
Belgium
Greece
Qatar
Arab Emirates

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7556664

Quoting GDB (Reply 46):
Some observers suggest the no 'boots on the ground' will exclude SAS/SBS in the forward air controller role.
Since the UK government does not officially comment on SF operations they are not there!

For all we know several countries might already have specialforces or / and iteligence agents on the ground ...
 
highlander0
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:00 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 53):

Quoting GDB (Reply 46):
Some observers suggest the no 'boots on the ground' will exclude SAS/SBS in the forward air controller role.
Since the UK government does not officially comment on SF operations they are not there!

For all we know several countries might already have specialforces or / and iteligence agents on the ground ...

Indeed when the BBC stated from their live stream:

Quote:
2048: Al Jazeera TV says Libya's rebel military council is co-ordinating with the coalition following air-strikes in areas where Col Gaddafi's forces were present.

it surprised me that rebels would have the capability/skills/training to do so. Perhaps they were taught by others before the Resolution 1973 was brought in?
 
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par13del
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:22 pm

Quoting highlander0 (Reply 54):
it surprised me that rebels would have the capability/skills/training to do so. Perhaps they were taught by others before the Resolution 1973 was brought in?

Makes you wonder then who was flying the rebel MIG that was shot down.
Until proven otherwise, these are Libyan's looking at what is happening in the region and pushing for some semblance of democracy, there are Libyans who are in the armed forces, those who have retired from the armed forces, police officers, other civil servants and normal every day citizens who have decided to take up the fight, that we call them rebels does not mean that they have forgotton all their professional training. I'm certain the Libyan military trained in the use of radios, calling in air and artillery strikes and other military operations, after all, the west and east not only sells military equipment they also provide training in and out of country, besides, history has shown that in this day and age, cell phones are some times more reliable than encrypted radios when attempting to communicate with "other" forces on the ground.
 
11Bravo
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:13 am

Quoting highlander0 (Reply 54):
it surprised me that rebels would have the capability/skills/training to do so. Perhaps they were taught by others before the Resolution 1973 was brought in?

I think you are arriving at conclusions not supported by any evidence. The Al Jazeera quote does not say that the rebels were doing anything besides "co-ordinating" with coalition forces. I would bet that allied FAC ops are being conducted by the allies (FAC aircraft, drones, and SF teams), not Libyan rebels.
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Spacepope
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:49 am

Libya is reported to have 400+ Scuds. Wonder how long till they are on their way to Sicily.
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highlander0
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 56):
I think you are arriving at conclusions not supported by any evidence.

It was intentional, I very much doubt that any foreign force would allow themselves to be caught in that position. Merely playing the Devil's Advocate.




Well, someone has to!
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:30 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 57):
Libya is reported to have 400+ Scuds. Wonder how long till they are on their way to Sicily.

Couldn't the CIWS and SM-(2?) systems be used to take care of at least some of those missiles, if the ships are off of Libya and not farther away in the Med? I know CIWS is meant for ship protection - can it be used to intercept missiles pass through the area as well?
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
rfields5421
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:43 am

Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 59):
I know CIWS is meant for ship protection - can it be used to intercept missiles pass through the area as well?

Not ballistic missiles - they are way too high in their flight profile.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 57):
Wonder how long till they are on their way to Sicily.

Lybia has the Scud B, which has a range of 300km, Sicily is 450km or more...
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Aesma
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:38 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
and really what gives us the right to do this? Can we bomb the crap out of France next week(month/year) when some protesters burn cars and get attacked by the police? The use of force shoudn't merely be a popularity contest. This isnt Jr High, this is real life.

If you replace France by Iraq, somehow it works, interesting, isn't it ? Wait ! There was no UN resolution, in that case.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 32):
You have just picked a side without knowing anything about one side. You have decided that tens of thousands of men should die for following the orders of thier commanders given by the legitimite ruler.

Well, we have journalists there since the first days (and probably not just journalists) so we know things. Besides, a lot of the men in Qaddafi's "army" are mercenaries from other countries, there is no legitimacy in one way or the other, only money.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:47 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 60):
Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 59):
I know CIWS is meant for ship protection - can it be used to intercept missiles pass through the area as well?

Not ballistic missiles - they are way too high in their flight profile.

Aren't the standard missile series meant to deal with that type of threat?
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:03 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 62):

If you replace France by Iraq, somehow it works, interesting, isn't it ? Wait ! There was no UN resolution, in that case

Doing the same wrong thing multiple times doesn't make it right.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:13 am




Quoting highlander0 (Reply 52):
Pentagon update- 110 Tomahawks launched from Naval platforms.
USS Florida has fired tomahawk missiles.

This officially marks the first time that an Ohio class submarine has fired in anger, and the world as we know it, did not end in the process!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/UH60PilotIraq/uss_florida.jpg
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AirRyan
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:37 am

Check out image #3 from the BBC link below, looks like USN EA-18G Growlers at Aviano, I didn't think they were activated and in the fleet just yet?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12794623

Overall, what an embarrassing response on part of the US leadership, back in 1986 it was France who protested the F-111 and A-6 strike on Libya that killed Qaddafi's daughter to the point that they even prohibited the strike aircraft from flying through French airspace, instead forcing them to refuel in the air several more times to make the mission from bases in England. Now, it's the French leading the air strikes, and even Canadians will be operating CAP missions over Libya, but we can't even get Super Hornets from the Enterprise to participate in the festivities?
 
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Spacepope
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:49 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 66):
Check out image #3 from the BBC link below, looks like USN EA-18G Growlers at Aviano, I didn't think they were activated and in the fleet just yet?

Posted that way back in reply 40.

Evidently, some things are on time in US military procurement.
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YVRLTN
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:14 am

What Obama said:

"We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people there will be no mercy"

Quoting par13del (Reply 42):
Good points but I think we still need to know why Libya. Other countries have had their citizens at war against each other and no one has been gung ho about doing anything to prevent it, how about Somalia, Yemen same continent right?

Seems Mugabe is still in power unmolested the last I checked. And the current news from Ivory Coast is currently flying pretty low under the radar...

So why only Libya? Is it OK if the people receiving no mercy under the tyrant are Zimbabweans, are their lives and liberties worth less? The obvious answer is yes because

1) they dont have anything the world needs

2) they are not actively / have a history of being engaged in sponsoring terrorism against the west and potentially have "Muslim Brotherhood's" come out of the woodwork who may breed fundamental Islamic radicals and

3) they are not strategically located in a vital shipping corridor and within missile distance of Europe. Simple why there are the double standards.

That being said, I believe the right decision has been made and we should fully support the brave men and women who are putting their lives on the line for others.

Back on topic, this certainly hi-lights the foolishness of defense cuts. Would be nice for the VC10 to be involved for the RAF as a swansong finale for the beautiful old girl.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
rfields5421
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 63):
Aren't the standard missile series meant to deal with that type of threat?



The Standard Missile, like the Patriot, was designed and speced to shoot down incoming aircraft. While it has a range of 90 to 200 nm based on the version, it is not designed for ballistic type projectiles. Those ranges are for engagement against aircraft and at a closer range cruise missiles - which are really low flying drone aircraft more than missiles.

The Patriot had extensive modifications to the guidance software before it was used with some success during the 1991 Gulf War to shoot down Scuds. The Patriot later also received physical modifications and additional software upgrades. It is presumed that the Standard Missile target acquisition and closing software have been modified to also function with an ABM capability, possibly also some of the enhancements for close target interception which have been added to some Patriots.

Even so, the Patriot has a very narrow targeting envelope and short engagement period and range. In general it is possible to intercept and destroy an incoming ballistic missile when that missile is targeted in the general area of the launch ABM system.

The optimized Patriot which is tweaked and updated for the ABM role only has a range of about 15KM - flying at Mach 3 against an unpowered target re-entering from outside the atmosphere at an extremely steep angle and similar Mach speed. I would assume the US Navy has some Standard Missiles with similar capability.

What they do not have, and apparently no one on the planet has, is the capability to launch a missile out of the atmosphere and guide it to intercept a ballistic missile hyperbolic flight path which crosses over the area of the launcher, but is targeted far outside the area of the launcher.

While Italy is not listed as having any Patriot batteries, I would think it safe to say some had been moved to Sigonella if the analyst believe that Libya has the ability to hit Sicily. There might also be an Aegis cruiser moved close enough to Sicily to be in the target envelope of any incoming ballistic missiles - thus able to provide some ABM defense.
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Shmertspionem
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:37 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 45):
Any chance they shot down the rebel MIG in error?

doesnt look like it - def shot down by rebels - they claimed so and no one has contradicted

Quoting GDB (Reply 46):
France confirms that first strikes have occurred against Libyan government vehicles, one confirmed destroyed.

Since Qaddafi's forces are now near the outskirts of Benghazi - I'd like to know what happens when things get into a merge. I think that's exactly what he wanted when he ignored his own ceasefire yesterday

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 48):
significant difference between "no ground forces" and "all means excluding foreign occupation".

Technically yes - they can deploy covert high-spec units to direct the planes - well the legal lacuna exists to do so. But the rebels simply aren't strong enough to hold out for very long. Also remember Qaddafi has cut off gas food and water. food can be replenished - water i doubt very much. IMO this is going to be one very long status quo enforcement - and after a while say 2 months to a year the rebels will be wiped out by irregular militia.

Remember gaddafi cant advance but neither can the rebels - at most they may have time to evacuate the leadership - and the people will be left to die.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 62):
There was no UN resolution, in that case.

There was a retrospective resolution granting legality to that operation. In any case Dominique de Villepin made it abundantly clear that existing resolutions at the time provided enough legal cover since they did not specifically 'rule out" the use of force.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 17):
Dont be daft - it will be a cakewalk.

yes the military op will be a cakewalk - just like gulf war 1 was and 2003 was even more so .... the nightmare will be the peacekeeping cus this will be replaced with this
Quoting francoflier (Reply 50):
Yes, but none of those governments have openly threatened Western countries with state terrorism, not to mention that Ghaddafi's past foray into terrorism gives his threat plenty of credibility.

and what replaces him will be far far worse - when a govt is as tyrannical as qaddafi's the only opposition that survives are tough ruthless islamo-fascist types. Initially yes the rebel government will be all cuddly and moderate till they basically give way to Bolsheviks, anarchist, Robespierre type loonies.

true - but in the larger context what exact message does this send to Iran????? even if you give us your nuke programme - we will remember and when we get an opportunity we will destroy you. After all Libya was "WELCOMED BACK" into the international fold and past mistakes forgiven when it publically denounced its nuclear programme.

If anyone in Iran was advocating that they give up their WMD programme - they and their families are all on their way to Evin prison to be tortured and executed within the next few weeks.
Vi veri universum vivus vici
 
checksixx
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:13 am

FYI...Sep. 30 2009 -- EA-18G reaches IOC with VAQ-132 at NAS Whidbey Island WA.

Quoting Beta (Reply 49):
Is this the 1st time the EF-Typhoon has been used in combat mission over hostile territory with strong likelihood of air-to-air engagement?

I wasn't aware they were using any Typhoon's at all...

Quoting Beta (Reply 49):
while the USAF's shiny new toy, F-22s sit in the tarmac stateside.

As far as YOU know  
 
redcoat78
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:45 am

I spoken with a friend of mine a Tornado Pilot from 50° Stormo based at Piacenza AFB. They have been deployed to Trapani Birgi (Sicily) for possible actions over Libya

[Edited 2011-03-19 22:46:43]
 
tommytoyz
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:44 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 66):
Overall, what an embarrassing response on part of the US leadership, back in 1986

Back 25 years ago is back then. The now is now. I usually am on the side of pacifists, who say why do we need violence. But it is clear that sometimes, you just have no choice but to fight fire with even greater fire. I have learned that bullies only respond to their own bullying power to stand down themselves. Look at how Ghadaffi stood down after Reagan's F-111 raid, for instance.

Today, I am proud of U.S firepower and allied resolve to force down a violent bully, who slaughters anyone who stands in his way. "All evil requires, is for good people to do nothing."

That will always be true, IMHO.
 
GDB
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:46 am

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 70):

Since Qaddafi's forces are now near the outskirts of Benghazi - I'd like to know what happens when things get into a merge. I think that's exactly what he wanted when he ignored his own ceasefire yesterday

Your assuming that they will do that.
More likely that his armour and other assets outside will be targeted, Libya has some major population centers separated by great distances with only some highways to link them, so supply lines will be very long.
And urban warfare uses up ammo very quickly.
It's also likely the case that the intention is also as much about making his forces change sides/give up, remember at the start of the uprising quite a few did.
If you need to import mercenaries to impose your will on your own people than clearly you have distrust in your own armed and security institutions.

From a UK Ministry of Defence statement;


We have launched Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles from a Trafalgar Class submarine and Stormshadow missiles from Tornado GR4s. The fast jets flew 3,000 miles from RAF Marham and back making this the longest range bombing mission conducted by the RAF since the Falklands conflict. This operation was supported by VC10 and Tristar air-to-air refuelling aircraft as well as E3D Sentry and Sentinel surveillance aircraft.

That was a long old trip by the GR.4's, notwithstanding the circa 150 mile Stormshadow range.

[Edited 2011-03-20 01:59:31]

[Edited 2011-03-20 02:00:36]
 
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Mortyman
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:46 pm

Wikipedia is moving fast...


Libyan no-fly zone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_no-fly_zone

International reactions to the 2011 Libyan uprising:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ctions_to_the_2011_Libyan_uprising

2011 Libyan uprising:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_uprising
 
RaginMav
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:31 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 65):
This officially marks the first time that an Ohio class submarine has fired in anger, and the world as we know it, did not end in the process!

It's about time we get some ROI on those tax dollars  

I've always thought the SSGN's were a particularly sneaky ace up our sleeve. Someone like Gadhafi gets a little off the straight and narrow, and he's got 154 Tomahawks up his you-know-what in a couple hours. And all that with little risk to guys like you, UH! Too bad it costs so much.
 
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Spacepope
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:02 pm

Saw on the news an AN-74 being used as a level bomber a few days back. Was Libya's transport fleet targeted in this first round of airstrikes? They should have had AN-124, AN-72/74, AN-26/32, IL-76, G 222, C-130...
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Beta
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting checksixx (Reply 71):
Quoting Beta (Reply 49):
Is this the 1st time the EF-Typhoon has been used in combat mission over hostile territory with strong likelihood of air-to-air engagement?

I wasn't aware they were using any Typhoon's at all...

I read somewhere (might be the BBC) and saw a squadron of EF-Typhoon was being prepped for the Libyan missions. May not be used in the initial strike stage, but strike package escorts or patrol? Don't know.

Quoting checksixx (Reply 71):
Quoting Beta (Reply 49):
while the USAF's shiny new toy, F-22s sit in the tarmac stateside.

As far as YOU know

Very true. I don't know, but I have not seen any press reports re. possible deployment of the F-22. I highly doubt it'll be used in this case. But I'd love to see a small detachment of 4-8 planes making its appearance. I understand there is a big risk and potential harm of having our "allies" learned some of the classified capability and tactics of the premier US fighter jets in an operational environment. But wouldn't it be a sight to see the Rafale, EF-Typhoon, F-22, F-15 all rumble and roar? They are some of the most beautiful fighter jets currently flying. Missing the Sukhoi-30. Does any East Euro. NATO allies have Su-30? That would make it the Olympic of top-class fighter jets.



Btw, how soon will we see this making its appearance   





[Edited 2011-03-20 10:29:16]
 
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Spacepope
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:56 pm

Quoting Beta (Reply 78):
Btw, how soon will we see this making its appearance   

News sites have photos of a U2 launching from Cyprus. Looks like the RQ-170 has its hands full further east.



[Edited 2011-03-20 11:09:31]
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GDB
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:10 pm

Quoting Beta (Reply 78):
I read somewhere (might be the BBC) and saw a squadron of EF-Typhoon was being prepped for the Libyan missions. May not be used in the initial strike stage, but strike package escorts or patrol? Don't know.

Deploying to Italy today. As are the Tornado's, yesterday's initial strikes by them from the UK using StormShadow missiles was part of the take-down of the major military assets of the regime.
3000 mile all round sorties are not something to be doing on a sustained period in a Tornado complete with three air to air refuellings.
Presumably, when the Tornados deploy also to Italy - with Typhoons providing top cover - the much shorter sorties times will involve using Brimstone missiles against targets like armour.

One gripe, what's with the name Odyssey Dawn ? Sounds like a low rent porn-star, or a bad Sci Fi novel, or a pleasure cruiser.
You just know that name came from the Pentagon!
 
wingman
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:41 pm

Very funny. It sounds like something Charlie Sheen would say to describe his mornings.
 
redcoat78
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:17 pm

The first three Italian Tornado had take off for their first strike mission with ECR equipment
 
11Bravo
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:55 pm

Quoting Redcoat78 (Reply 82):
The first three Italian Tornado had take off for their first strike mission with ECR equipment

You may want to consider NOT announcing the departure of combat aircraft enroute to Libya  
WhaleJets Rule!
 
bennett123
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:04 pm

I will be a lot more relaxed about the reaction in the Middle East when I see concrete involvement from Qatar and the UAE.
 
777
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:09 pm

A total of 6 Italian tornados have been involved in the operations today: 4 ECR and 2 as buddy-buddy tanker.
According to Skynews, all of them have completed the mission and have landed safely in Trapani AFB.
 
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Aesma
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:19 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 69):
While Italy is not listed as having any Patriot batteries

That's because they have Franco-Italian Aster 30 batteries, which can destroy medium range ballistic missiles.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:32 am

Quoting 777 (Reply 85):
4 ECR and 2 as buddy-buddy tanker.

No KC-767 action yet?
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
Beta
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:56 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:27 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 87):
No KC-767 action yet?

That's what I am wondering as well. I know the Italian has taken some delivery, but don't know whether they are ready for use yet, or still in the work-up process. Obviously it would be a good publicity coup for Boeing if they were ready for use in this operation.
 
Bureaucromancer
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:17 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:45 am

Any chance we might see one of the Italian carriers doing anything? Harriers don't seem like the best aircraft for this, but I'd love to see those ships used.
 
scrubbsywg
Posts: 1097
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:35 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:14 am

i have a dumb question: How does Canada get its CF-18's from Canada to whatever European base they are operating out of?
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3337
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 90):
i have a dumb question: How does Canada get its CF-18's from Canada to whatever European base they are operating out of?

A ferry flight flying with a CC-150 Polaris MRTT of course, and a couple of stops on the way. Backed up by a supply train of a pair of C-17's carrying all of the equipment as well.
 
777
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:20 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 87):
Quoting 777 (Reply 85):

No KC-767 action yet?


AFAIK it has not been certified for operational use yet
 
777
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:26 am

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 89):
Any chance we might see one of the Italian carriers doing anything? Harriers don't seem like the best aircraft for this, but I'd love to see those ships used.


The only thing we know is that the Garibaldi carrier with some 8 AV-B and some EH-101 on board is operating now in the war zone between Sicily and Libya.
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 4555
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:05 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 91):
A ferry flight flying with a CC-150 Polaris MRTT of course, and a couple of stops on the way. Backed up by a supply train of a pair of C-17's carrying all of the equipment as well.

There was an AN-124 that flew CFB Trenton to Germany yesterday, May be unrelated...
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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Mortyman
Posts: 5772
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:40 pm

On march 19th 2011 the Norwegian government authorized The Royal Norwegian Air Force to head for Libya and prepare for missions there. Norway has approved 6 General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon fighters and necessary personnel. The fighters headed for Greeece today and will operate from the Souda Air Base in Souda Bay on Greece .

http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/03/20/n.../muammar_kadhafi/kadhafi/15879797/


See 5 of the 6 F16 take off from Bodø Airport in the far north of Norway earlier today here:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nordland/1.7557891

What a sight ! - What a sound !


The Norwegians has prepared for an up to 3 month long mission for starters
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:28 pm

FOX footage yesterday showed EA-18G's preparing for operations from "Italy". Could have swore I saw the "Rooks" emblem on the tail although hard to see if it was VAQ-141 . Definitely "growlers" no doubt about it.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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Mortyman
Posts: 5772
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 95):
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nordland/1.7557891

What a sight ! - What a sound !

This video of the Royal Norwegian Airforce F16's taking off today is so cool ! Anyone know what the first aircraft is carrying in the video tht has the orange colour ?
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:05 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPhMr2_rAA

Growler's ... and looks like 1,000lb and 500lb JDAMS.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: U.N. Security Council Approve No-fly Zone In Libya

Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:17 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 50):
Yes, but none of those governments have openly threatened Western countries with state terrorism, not to mention that Ghaddafi's past foray into terrorism gives his threat plenty of credibility.
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 68):
So why only Libya? Is it OK if the people receiving no mercy under the tyrant are Zimbabweans, are their lives and liberties worth less? The obvious answer is yes because

1) they dont have anything the world needs

2) they are not actively / have a history of being engaged in sponsoring terrorism against the west and potentially have "Muslim Brotherhood's" come out of the woodwork who may breed fundamental Islamic radicals and

3) they are not strategically located in a vital shipping corridor and within missile distance of Europe. Simple why there are the double standards.

There is one country who does fit all of the above - and more. IRAN.

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 70):
true - but in the larger context what exact message does this send to Iran????? even if you give us your nuke programme - we will remember and when we get an opportunity we will destroy you. After all Libya was "WELCOMED BACK" into the international fold and past mistakes forgiven when it publically denounced its nuclear programme.

A horrible foreign policy blunder.

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