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Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:18 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 8):
What a stupid practice, naming aircraft carriers after politicians. I vote for bringing back the Wasp and Hornet names.

To paraphrase Rickover (I think), insects don't vote.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Cadet985
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:01 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 15):
While I understand the desire to have another Arizona, it is not a carrier name. Submarines now bare the state names... Arizona is one name that should be left alone until she is totally gone.

By the time the ocean completely consumes the
 
Cadet985
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:23 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 51):
By the time the ocean completely consumes the

I have no idea what happened to my post, but it should have read...

"By the time the ocean consumes the sunken one, there may not be a US Navy."
 
Oroka
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:21 am

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 48):
Just ask those guys who got to sink the Mighty 'O' about how to do it right!!!

Yeah, but I doubt the team that sank the Oriskany would use torpedos, or Harpoons to sink the Enterprise.

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 48):
These boats have many many secrets that are best not known to those who have no 'need to know' if you know what I mean...

The ship would be stripped of pretty much everything of value, hazardous, or contain secrets. A ship of that size, with IIRC 6 nuclear reactors, will be a big job to strip before being disposed of in whatever manner.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:29 am

Quoting Geezer (Reply 44):
Sooner or later we're going to see a "U.S.S. Bill Clinton", or even worse, ( if that's possible ). a "U.S.S. Jimmy Carter" !

How about a U.S.S. Bush Jnr, now that would be a prime target for any self respecting terrorist.
 
jwenting
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:29 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 11):
If it's a Ford-class, it should be F-150, 250 and 350, or an LTD.

Thunderbird 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5  
I wish I were flying
 
studedave
Posts: 475
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting Oroka (Reply 53):
Yeah, but I doubt the team that sank the Oriskany would use torpedos, or Harpoons to sink the Enterprise.

As do I, but whatever they did- it worked pretty well, don't you think?
They must know something about how to get a boat to settle upright.

Quoting Oroka (Reply 53):
The ship would be stripped of pretty much everything of value, hazardous, or contain secrets. A ship of that size, with IIRC 6 nuclear reactors, will be a big job to strip before being disposed of in whatever manner.

You are not getting what I am saying. Stripping out all those items would be fine and dandy, but the design of the ship itself (especially the lower decks) is not something that the NAVY wants to be known. I can't go into much more detail then that~ sorry.
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 56):
You are not getting what I am saying. Stripping out all those items would be fine and dandy, but the design of the ship itself (especially the lower decks) is not something that the NAVY wants to be known. I can't go into much more detail then that~ sorry.

I'm pretty sure the Chinese and Russians have the plans of the Enterprise and Nimitz Classes, I doubt by now there is much about these vessels which remains secret. Enterprise is also rather old and outdated.
 
GDB
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:45 pm

Geezer, you remember that hack 80's Hollywood P.O.S. called Red Dawn , more to the point the remake?
I understand that the remake, with the USSR not longer around, features one of the USA's main trading partners and holders of a pile of government debt. the Chinese, as the invaders this time.
Hate to break it to you but they were complete fantasies, not grounded in any reality, at all.
See I'm just wondered where your frankly bizarre assertions about Carter handing the Panama Canal back to China.
When if fact in went back to country it's situated.
At the time, China was impoverished after decades of Mao. Did not stop a Republican US President opening up relationships with China when they were still firmly Communist, that was in 1972. I doubt Nixon offered then the canal either.

What's this?
http://navysite.de/ssn/ssn23.htm

A sub named after the former President, it respect for not only his office but what he did before becoming President in service of his country.

Now I know there is for some reason, a strand in the US political system and their followers which really seems to dislike facts, even simple ones.
Still, this whole Panama Canal was given to China is pushing the boundaries somewhat.
 
zanl188
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 58):
A sub named after the former President, it respect for not only his office but what he did before becoming President in service of his country.

FWIW IMHO: It's entirely possible, & in fact likely, that Rickover & Carter had SSNs named after them to eliminate the possibility of a major surface warship being so named. The SSN is, after all, designed to maintain a low profile.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:00 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 59):
FWIW IMHO: It's entirely possible, & in fact likely, that Rickover & Carter had SSNs named after them to eliminate the possibility of a major surface warship being so named. The SSN is, after all, designed to maintain a low profile

Carter maybe. Admiral Rickover however was a highly respected general officer who is instrumental in creating the US nuclear submarine fleet (more than the surface fleet, which though planned to become entirely nuclear in the 1950s and '60s of course never did, all but the carriers having reverted to fossil fuel drives, either diesel or turbojet engines).
Naming a submarine after Rickover is a way to honour that legacy, naming one after Jimmy Carter a joke on his sneakiness.
I wish I were flying
 
GDB
Posts: 13832
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:23 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 59):
FWIW IMHO: It's entirely possible, & in fact likely, that Rickover & Carter had SSNs named after them to eliminate the possibility of a major surface warship being so named. The SSN is, after all, designed to maintain a low profile.

Which just illustrates the whole silliness around naming major warships after Presidents, with his history in the USN, naming a (rather unique) SSN after Carter at least has some historic resonance.
Nuclear subs are major warships, not many navies have them, they are Capital Ships too.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 60):
naming one after Jimmy Carter a joke on his sneakiness.

If anything, he was perhaps a bit too open, not 'sneaky' (Huh?)
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5352
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:16 pm

Quoting Oroka (Reply 53):
A ship of that size, with IIRC 6 nuclear reactors, will be a big job to strip before being disposed of in whatever manner.
Enterprise actually features 8 reactors.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 59):
It's entirely possible, & in fact likely, that Rickover & Carter had SSNs named after them to eliminate the possibility of a major surface warship being so named. The SSN is, after all, designed to maintain a low profile.
Quoting jwenting (Reply 60):
naming one after Jimmy Carter a joke on his sneakiness.

Or, less cynically, as tribute to the fact that he's been the only US President to be qualified in submarines.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Oroka
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:37 am

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:46 pm

Quoting StudeDave (Reply 56):
You are not getting what I am saying. Stripping out all those items would be fine and dandy, but the design of the ship itself (especially the lower decks) is not something that the NAVY wants to be known.

Unless there is some mega secret floor plan, what could possible be down there that they cant remove, or is already known. I cant see what could be down there after 50 years that is top secret and cant be stripped out. Reactors will be gone, the motors are half a century old, she was a one off design... THEN, after all that, you would have to be REALLY gutsy to dive INTO the bowels of a sunken CVN.

Anyone wanting to know the exact layout of the interior hull of a 50 year old ship probably has the funds to engineer it themselves (China, Russia, India).
 
WESTERN737800
Posts: 385
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:08 am

I think we should have twice as many carriers as we do. That would allow us to keep more of the cool names around. I cant imangine the Navy without the Enterprise. The Nimitz is one of my favorites, probaly from watching the movie The Final Countdown countless times. We should have a Midway and a Coral Sea. So many great ones, Forrestall, Indpendence, Ranger, Saratoga, Kitty Hawk, Constellation, America, JFK.
Bring back Western Airlines!
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:57 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
How about Mustang, Galaxie, Fairlane, or Crown Vic?

What if they choose Edsel...?
What the...?
 
GDB
Posts: 13832
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 64):
I think we should have twice as many carriers as we do. That would allow us to keep more of the cool names around.

If anything, there are going to be fewer carriers in the future. Budget reality and actual military needs, whoever is in the White House.
But I understand the desire to keep such grand old names as Enterprise .
(So ditch the political naming?)
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:55 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 66):
If anything, there are going to be fewer carriers in the future. Budget reality and actual military needs, whoever is in the White House.

sorry, but military needs require a certain number and even the current fleetsize is barely enough (and in wartime not enough) to meet the requirements.
To have 5 fleet stations, with 1 carrier on station at each, 1 going to or from station, and 1 working up or down, plus 1 carrier in long term maintenance (which is what the US carrier fleet was meant to do, and no longer can), there's a need for at least 16 carriers (I say at least, as this figure doesn't include a training carrier and overcapacity to employ in case of war when more than one carrier is required on a station for extended periods).
With the airwing of each carrier being ever more degraded, such multi-carrier deployments will only become more needed as a single carrier often can no longer carry out the mission it could have even during Desert Storm.
I wish I were flying
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:27 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 66):
If anything, there are going to be fewer carriers in the future. Budget reality and actual military needs, whoever is in the White House.

   See my post 4. I have consistently maintained on this board that you can only have a military that you can 9reasonably) afford. The US will definitely have fewer carriers on hand going forward.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 67):
sorry, but military needs require a certain number and even the current fleetsize is barely enough (and in wartime not enough) to meet the requirements.

Military needs are driven by political decisions. The decisions being taken now (w.r.t. budget/debt ceiling) and going forward will restrict American military capabilities for a long time.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
GDB
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:39 pm

Quoting jwenting (Reply 67):
sorry, but military needs require a certain number and even the current fleetsize is barely enough (and in wartime not enough) to meet the requirements.

What is the defined military threat? They exist, carriers have been busy enough.
The threat however is not an overtly hostile superpower with a large blue water fleet, that's 20 years gone.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6078
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:25 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 58):
I understand that the remake, with the USSR not longer around, features one of the USA's main trading partners and holders of a pile of government debt. the Chinese, as the invaders this time.

They changed it to the North Koreans. Which makes it even more of a bizarre storyline.

Quoting GDB (Reply 61):
Which just illustrates the whole silliness around naming major warships after Presidents

IMO George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are deserving of having a carrier named after them. When you start naming them after recent presidents who most people have a memory of that smacks of politics.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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kc135topboom
Posts: 11194
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:43 pm

Quoting Geezer (Reply 44):
Sooner or later we're going to see a "U.S.S. Bill Clinton", or even worse, ( if that's possible ). a "U.S.S. Jimmy Carter" !

Sooner or later Bill Clinton will have some type of USN ship named after him, perhaps a screw tug (YFB).

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 45):
Both had SSNs named for them. Carter a Seawolf and Rickover a Los Angeles.
Quoting StudeDave (Reply 48):
Just ask those guys who got to sink the Mighty 'O' about how to do it right!!!
Quoting StudeDave (Reply 48):
But I'd venture to guess that was the last time it'll happen like that though. Think about it- even an oil burner like the xUSS America was sunk so far out so as to never be close enough for a dive team.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 54):
How about a U.S.S. Bush Jnr, now that would be a prime target for any self respecting terrorist.

Perhaps, but then again, I cannot think of any USN ship that isn't a target of interest of terrorists.

Quoting GDB (Reply 61):
Nuclear subs are major warships, not many navies have them, they are Capital Ships too.

In the USN, SSNs are major warships, just like the SSGNs, CGs, and DDGs. The only ships the USN has that are designated as Capital Ships today are the SSBNs and CVNs.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 62):
Quoting jwenting (Reply 60):
naming one after Jimmy Carter a joke on his sneakiness.

Or, less cynically, as tribute to the fact that he's been the only US President to be qualified in submarines.

Why is that a qualifer? There have been hundreds of great SSN/SSBN/SS Skippers that have not had a submarine, or destroyer named after them.

Carter was never in command of an SSN, or any other Naval vessel. He was only in the Navy for 10 years, including 5 years at the Naval Academy (one year of prep school), from 1943 to 1953. Carter avoided serving in both WWII and the Korean War by his almost continous requests for school, including his request and interview by Adm. Rickover. His most dangerous assignment in 1952 and 1953 in the USN was to help in working for the clean up crew after the accident at the experimental NRX reactor at Atomic Energy of Canada’s Chalk River Laboratories. He was discharged from the Navy in 1953 as a Lieutenant (O-3), after he resigned his commission.

Quoting jwenting (Reply 67):
To have 5 fleet stations, with 1 carrier on station at each, 1 going to or from station, and 1 working up or down, plus 1 carrier in long term maintenance (which is what the US carrier fleet was meant to do, and no longer can), there's a need for at least 16 carriers (I say at least, as this figure doesn't include a training carrier and overcapacity to employ in case of war when more than one carrier is required on a station for extended periods).
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 70):
IMO George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are deserving of having a carrier named after them.


We have named CV/CVNs after other Presidents that were also US Navy Officers, some even Skippers of warships. These include John F. Kennedy, who was a Skipper on a WWII PT Boat, Gerald Ford was a Navigator on a WWII CV, George H.W. Bush (Sr. Bush, or Bush 41) was a TBM Pilot off a WWII CV. Lincoln was never in the military, and Washington, like Reagan, and Eisenhower were in the military but not in the USN. But they (deservedly) also had a Nimitz class CVN named after them.
 
B727LVR
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:54 am

RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:11 am

Quoting Geezer (Reply 44):
Wisconsin

The USS Wisconsin was still on the active register all the way up to 12/14/2009. Even as a museum she is was in the ready reserve, and according to the volunteers could have been put back in service withing 30 days if needed. That was an interesting tidbit I leanred wile taking the tour.



I agree we need to get back to the more historic names four our carriers. I also agree that the Enterprise name should be kept, there is a lot of history there. How about USS Monitor or Merrimack? I know they are names of the first "Iron Clads," but the names have history, heck their name-sakes ultimately changed how ships were made at the time, so I think they would be fitting to the new carrier design.
I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
 
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dlednicer
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RE: Second Ford Class Carrier To Be Name JFK.

Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:15 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 71):
Carter was never in command of an SSN, or any other Naval vessel.

While not the commander, he was the Executive Officer of the USS Barracuda (SSK-1), the first diesel sub built after World War II. He also served as an officer on the USS Wyoming (E-AG17), USS Mississippi (E-AG128) and USS Pomfret (SS-391).

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