deltal1011man
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:26 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 13):
Well, it seemed a valid question. Perhaps not. As I stated, I have not read all the previous posts. Please forgive my asking.

Its just a touchy subject around here.

Google search for some of the threads and read over them, you will see why the mods have put a gag order on it.  
 
LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:50 am

Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 11):
Boeing should delay the flight testing of the civilian version, the B-767-2C as they have no orders for it, yet. Just meet the USAF contract, including the FAA certification first, then all of the USAF certifications.

The -2C is not a stand alone aircraft. It's a tanker minus the refueling gear and countermeasures system and an important part of the test program.
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queb
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 11):
The KC-46A has not been approved for LRIP yet. If that doesn't come soon from the USAF, Boeing will not be able to meet the first delivery in September 2017, just 18 months from now.

That will not be Boeing's fault.

LRIP USAF approval is not release because Boeing is late, that's Boeing's fault.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:32 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 16):

LRIP USAF approval is not release because Boeing is late, that's Boeing's fault.

LRIP contract will be awarded once Boeing reach milestone C in April. If Boeing miss that milestone, and the contract is held, then you can start throwing tomatoes.
  

bt
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LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:38 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 17):
LRIP contract will be awarded once Boeing reach milestone C in April. If Boeing miss that milestone, and the contract is held, then you can start throwing tomatoes.

Even if they don't get an LRIP award in April Boeing is still going to continue with production. At this point they can't afford not to. Not if they want to have any chance of delivering 18 tankers by Aug 2017.
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bikerthai
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 18):

Even if they don't get an LRIP award in April Boeing is still going to continue with production.

Either way, these contracts comes with funding risks. If not the supplier not meeting the milestones then it's the government not appropriating funds in time (sequester anyone?). They just have to deal with it.

bt
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queb
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:08 pm

the third one flew today

 
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Revelation
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:09 am

Bloomberg via ST quotes DCMA as saying Boeing will miss its first major delivery date for KC-46:

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...ry-date-for-tankers-pentagon-aays/

DCMA predicts seven months late on deliveries of the first 19 frames.

USAF estimates that Boeing will be $1.5B over budget after delivering the first four frames.
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flyingclrs727
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:05 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 6):
Is there any reason that the Pentagon chose the 767 over the A330, besides the political. I am really not up in all the capabilities because I am old.

The A330 has a much larger wingspan than the 767 and causes them to take more ramp space. These tankers are being bought to replace KC-135's. The 767 can fit in the same space as the KC-135 and can use the same facilities like hangers built for the KC-135 with minimal or no modifications. Considering all the infrastructure already in place at air force bases around the world, it's cheaper to build a fleet of tankers based on the 767 than the A330 to replace the KC-135.

[Edited 2016-03-22 19:19:51]
 
Ozair
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:07 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
DCMA predicts seven months late on deliveries of the first 19 frames.

USAF estimates that Boeing will be $1.5B over budget after delivering the first four frames.

Not unexpected really. Not sure how Boeing is going to recover those costs or will they simply write them off as has been the state of play lately.
 
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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:36 am

Quoting Ozair (Reply 23):
Not sure how Boeing is going to recover those costs or will they simply write them off as has been the state of play lately.

If they end up building 180 or more of them, they could recover it over the run as the production costs drop with experience. The USAF will also be buying plenty of ancillaries over the life of the frames.
 
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:22 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):
If they end up building 180 or more of them, they could recover it over the run as the production costs drop with experience. The USAF will also be buying plenty of ancillaries over the life of the frames.

I can't see the reductions coming from production, you would think that Boeing has squeezed all the efficiencies out of the 767 line already and any benefits are only going to come from a significant increase in production.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 24):
The USAF will also be buying plenty of ancillaries over the life of the frames.

Perhaps. It would be interesting to know if Boeing is making money from KC-135 support contracts or just keeping their head above water, given they are now competitive bid?
 
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bikerthai
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:46 pm

Quoting Ozair (Reply 25):
I can't see the reductions coming from production, you would think that Boeing has squeezed all the efficiencies out of the 767 line already and any benefits are only going to come from a significant increase in production.

That and coming down on the learning curve for the military portion of the production. Remember that the cost of the integrating the military hardware can be as much as the green airplane itself. For the tanker, it may not be as much as something like the P-8, but it could be significant.

How much of the $1.5 B has already been written off? Just concentrating on getting the planes delivered as best as possible and ship more sub-components production to India to reduce cost    

bt
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LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:08 pm

Quoting Ozair (Reply 25):
I can't see the reductions coming from production, you would think that Boeing has squeezed all the efficiencies out of the 767 line already and any benefits are only going to come from a significant increase in production.

While Boeing might have squeezed out all the efficiency out of the 767 line they still have a long way to go with the KC-46. The issues are not with things like the wing, landing gear, fuselage etc. It's with the wiring, avionics and all the other systems that make it a tanker.

Eventually they will get cost reductions from improved efficiency on KC-46 production. That's almost a given. Like with any other program there's a learning curve. It just happens that the learning curve on the KC-46 is a bit steeper.
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pygmalion
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:30 pm

The $1.5B was a government estimate of what the over run could be for what that's worth. Boeing said $766 million.

Boeing is building 767's at 2 a month. The wiring issues on the early frames wont affect the build rate nor will the contaminated fuel systems that slowed down the early frame. The Defense Contract Management Agency thinks 1 a month is high rate production.

From Bloomberg

Quote:
The planned delivery rate for the 18 aircraft “will be higher than that of typical mature programs during full rate-production” and could “strain resources for both Boeing and the government,” the Defense Contract Management Agency said.

17 airplanes in 18 months is not high rate for the 767 airframe... at least as long as Boeing has gotten the wiring issues all worked out. Since they are flying 3 frames with production wiring in the final configuration (barring any flight test failures for wiring which is unlikely at this point)... I don't see any issues preventing Boeing from hitting the Sept 2017 target.

1 a month rate might be high for the government.. but not for Boeing. 1/month is barely moving for commercial and the 767 is mostly a commercial frame.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:01 pm

Quoting pygmalion (Reply 28):
1/month is barely moving for commercial and the 767 is mostly a commercial frame.

Just had a "round table" with a higher level manager on my program and he explained some of the intricacies of production rate with respect to a militarized/commercial line. Yes, 1 a month would not be difficult for Boeing, but at a price. You want to keep your work flow steady. You don't want to ramp up to meet the 17 planes goal just to reduce you rate again after the initial buy. You have to figure in the rate of both the tanker and commercial frames and when the other customer needs their frame. Boeing can meet the higher rate, but it would cost them money to move people around and get buy in from their sub tier supplier. So if you are already losing money, you want to do everything to reduce that cost.

bt
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LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:53 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 29):
Just had a "round table" with a higher level manager on my program and he explained some of the intricacies of production rate with respect to a militarized/commercial line. Yes, 1 a month would not be difficult for Boeing, but at a price. You want to keep your work flow steady. You don't want to ramp up to meet the 17 planes goal just to reduce you rate again after the initial buy. You have to figure in the rate of both the tanker and commercial frames and when the other customer needs their frame. Boeing can meet the higher rate, but it would cost them money to move people around and get buy in from their sub tier supplier. So if you are already losing money, you want to do everything to reduce that cost.

Boeing already raised the rate to two an month and next year they will raise it to two and a half. Even then though they will not be able to deliver eighteen KC-46 tankers to the USAF by August of next year.
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INFINITI329
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:43 am

Looks like the KC-46 is unable to refuel C-17s currently, due to higher than expected boom axial loads

http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/bo...ker-issue-may-delay-001131426.html
 
Ozair
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:59 am

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 31):
Looks like the KC-46 is unable to refuel C-17s currently, due to higher than expected boom axial loads

While it isn't great news these types of issues are the whole point of the dev and test phase so better to find them here than when the aircraft is operational.
 
KC135Hydraulics
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:30 pm

My question is how were these loads unanticipated when the boom is just a revised KC-10 boom, which has proven more than capable of refueling C-17s in the past? From what I understand of the KC-46 boom, it's basically a KC-10 boom with some 21st century minor revisions. The basic structure and control system remain the same.
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INFINITI329
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:26 pm

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 33):
My question is how were these loads unanticipated when the boom is just a revised KC-10 boom, which has proven more than capable of refueling C-17s in the past? From what I understand of the KC-46 boom, it's basically a KC-10 boom with some 21st century minor revisions. The basic structure and control system remain the same.

That is the million dollar question. One would assume is should perform better than its predecessor.
 
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:57 pm

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 33):
My question is how were these loads unanticipated when the boom is just a revised KC-10 boom, which has proven more than capable of refueling C-17s in the past? From what I understand of the KC-46 boom, it's basically a KC-10 boom with some 21st century minor revisions. The basic structure and control system remain the same.

Imagine how bad things would be if Boeing didn't have all that tanker experience!   
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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:45 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
Imagine how bad things would be if Boeing didn't have all that tanker experience!    

At least they have enough experience to keep the boom on the plane...  
 
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747classic
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:24 am

According the following article Boeing's KC-46 aerial refueling tanker continues to be hampered by late supplier deliveries, according to a federal oversight report released Thursday.
“A key supplier is not delivering aerial refueling systems on time, which could affect the timely delivery of aircraft,” the Government Accountability Office report says.


See : http://www.theheraldbusinessjournal....rag-on-Boeing-KC-46-tanker-program

According Boeing the following suppliers are involved with the refulelling system :

- Cobham (Davenport, Iowa): Refueling systems, including wing aerial refueling pods and centerline drogue system

- DRS Laurel Technologies Inc. (Johnstown, Pa.): Aerial Refueling Operator Station (AROS)

- Moog Inc. : refueling boom actuators (Torrance, Calif.)

- Parker Aerospace (Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Utah): Refueling components including the receptacle door actuator, aerial refueling interface control system, and wing refueling pod hydraulic power packs

- Woodward Inc. (Skokie, Ill.): Several elements of the aerial refueling boom, including the sensor system, control unit, and telescopic and flight control sticks.

See : http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2011-06-...oeing-Names-KC-46-Tanker-Suppliers
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PC12Fan
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:22 pm

Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 31):
Looks like the KC-46 is unable to refuel C-17s currently, due to higher than expected boom axial loads

http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/bo....html

Try this one . . .

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201...-from-latest-Boeing-tanker-setback

Not much more info than already given though.
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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:53 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 37):
According the following article Boeing's KC-46 aerial refueling tanker continues to be hampered by late supplier deliveries, according to a federal oversight report released Thursday.

We know Boeing can have the 18 767-2C frames themselves completed within the contract date based on the production rate and FX's delivery schedule for 767-300Fs, so it makes sense that the hold-up is in outfitting them to the KC-46A specification and now it appears that said hold-up is being driven by the suppliers.

Be interesting to know if said suppliers would also have supplied the KC-45A with the same components, in which case the KC-45A might have been just as at risk of missing the delivery deadline even if Airbus Military had the base airframes completed by then, as well.
 
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kanban
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
Be interesting to know if said suppliers would also have supplied the KC-45A with the same components, in which case the KC-45A might have been just as at risk of missing the delivery deadline even if Airbus Military had the base airframes completed by then, as well

while it's fun to speculate, you're opening that wound again and we'll be in for more endless comparison drivel.
 
11Bravo
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:08 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
Be interesting to know if said suppliers would also have supplied the KC-45A with the same components, in which case the KC-45A might have been just as at risk of missing the delivery deadline even if Airbus Military had the base airframes completed by then, as well.

Whether or not the aircraft might have been more "on-time" still doesn't change the capability of the respective aircraft. The KC-45 is too large and expensive. It doesn't fit the mission requirement as well as the KC-46. It's unfortunate the KC-46 will be a bit late, but it is still the better choice for the USAF. I'd rather have the right aircraft a bit late, than the wrong aircraft on-time.
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Revelation
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:14 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 40):
while it's fun to speculate, you're opening that wound again and we'll be in for more endless comparison drivel.

I agree on both points.

Let's try to remember this is the "KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery" thread...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
now it appears that said hold-up is being driven by the suppliers

Which is interesting since the previous difficulties (wiring problem, fuel tank cleaning problem) should have given the suppliers some more slack to work with.

It ain't a KC-46 till all the parts are in it, and it's Boeing's name on the tin, so it's all Boeing's problem to sort out.
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:05 pm

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 33):
My question is how were these loads unanticipated when the boom is just a revised KC-10 boom, which has proven more than capable of refueling C-17s in the past? From what I understand of the KC-46 boom, it's basically a KC-10 boom with some 21st century minor revisions. The basic structure and control system remain the same.
Quoting INFINITI329 (Reply 34):
That is the million dollar question. One would assume is should perform better than its predecessor.

The axial load problem could be something as simple as a problem with the boom trim system, or even the load sensors. In either case it is just a matter of making the proper adjustments, adjusting the software, and no hardware changes. I really doubt this is a major set back. It is important to note there was no problem in the actual transfer of fuel to the C-17 at the maximum offload rate.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
Imagine how bad things would be if Boeing didn't have all that tanker experience!
Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
At least they have enough experience to keep the boom on the plane...

  

Quoting Stitch (Reply 39):
We know Boeing can have the 18 767-2C frames themselves completed within the contract date based on the production rate and FX's delivery schedule for 767-300Fs, so it makes sense that the hold-up is in outfitting them to the KC-46A specification and now it appears that said hold-up is being driven by the suppliers.

Be interesting to know if said suppliers would also have supplied the KC-45A with the same components, in which case the KC-45A might have been just as at risk of missing the delivery deadline even if Airbus Military had the base airframes completed by then, as well.

Good point, Stitch
 
UA444
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:13 pm

So the commercial version of this aircraft is known as the 767-2LK/C right?
 
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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:41 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 44):
So the commercial version of this aircraft is known as the 767-2LK/C right?

767-2C.
 
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747classic
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:01 pm

Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 4):
Where is #4, the second test B-767-2C? Both test KC-46As are there.

The second test B767-2C is now at the flight line and did some HF communication tests and will be active soon.



Original uploaded by : Matt Cawby : see : http://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/718672302284472321

Aircraft data : L/N 1067 C/N 34054 B767-2LKC N463FT 11-46003 USAF KC-46A (VH003) EMD3
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kanban
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:46 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 44):

767-2C-E-I-E-i-O      
 
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747classic
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:45 pm

L/N 1097 C/N 43550 B767-32SF N134FE FEDEX (VT585) observed at the flight line at April 09, conseq. the seventh KC46 must be now at the Final Assembly line.

Original uploaded by WoodysAeroimges, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/woodysaeroimages/25736659773/

L/N 1098 C/N 41855 B767-2LKC USAF KC-46A (VH007) LRIP1
L/N 1099 C/N 42722 B767-3S2F N135FE FEDEX (VT586)
L/N 1100 C/N 41856 B767-2LKC USAF KC-46A (VH008) LRIP1
L/N 1101
L/N 1102 C/N 41858 B767-2LKC USAF KC-46A (VH009) LRIP1
L/N 1103
L/N 1104 C/N 41859 B767-2LKC USAF KC-46A (VH010) LRIP1
L/N 1105
L/N 1106
L/N 1107 C/N 34106 B767-2LKC USAF KC-46A (VH011) LRIP2
L/N 1108
L/N 1109 C/N 34107 B767-2LKC USAF KC-46A (VH012) LRIP2

[Edited 2016-04-10 07:47:24]
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UA444
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:06 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):

767-2C.

Customer codes are still present it seems. LC customer code.
 
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747classic
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:43 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 49):
Customer codes are still present it seems. LC customer code

The subtype is 767-2C , with Boeing customer code LK for the USAF- KC46A
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hilram
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:47 pm

Is the (civilian) 767-2C available for order to regular customers now?
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:07 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 51):
Is the (civilian) 767-2C available for order to regular customers now?

Yes.
 
LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:51 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 51):
Is the (civilian) 767-2C available for order to regular customers now?

No it is not.
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kanban
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:53 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 53):

I believe it is available to order but not certified yet for delivery..
 
LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:25 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 54):
I believe it is available to order but not certified yet for delivery..

It is not available for order. All a -2C is is a KC-46 minus the mission systems. All the associated wiring, structure, hydraulic runs etc are there.
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747classic
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:15 am

The first Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP1) KC46A fully painted at the fueldock.



Original uploaded by WoodysAeroimages, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/woodysaeroimages/26429085081/

Aircraft data : L/N 1091 C/N 41852 B767-2LKC N842BA 16-46005 USAF KC46A (VH005) LRIP1
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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zeke
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:30 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 37):

Nothing to worry about there is another off the shelf boom that has been cleared against the F-15/16/22 C17 and Wedgetal. There is a viable alternative.
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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:59 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 55):
It is not available for order. All a -2C is is a KC-46 minus the mission systems. All the associated wiring, structure, hydraulic runs etc are there.

That does not preclude it from being available for civilian sale. Boeing has listed it on the official price sheet (though with the notice that one should contact their Boeing sales representative) and in 2012 the US Air Force's KC-46 programme manager - Major General Peter Bogdan - talked up commercial sales of the plane for possible customers including FedEx and UPS.
 
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kanban
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:09 pm

I recall reading that when certified Fed EX will switch future freighter procurement to the 2C leaving Boeing with only one 767 fuselage type on the line.
 
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747classic
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 59):
I recall reading that when certified Fed EX will switch future freighter procurement to the 2C leaving Boeing with only one 767 fuselage type on the line.

FEDEX 767-300F aircraft are mostly volume limited and not weight limited, why would FEDEX choose for an other subtype with less cargo volume.
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angad84
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:37 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 60):
FEDEX 767-300F aircraft are mostly volume limited and not weight limited, why would FEDEX choose for an other subtype with less cargo volume.

Because they may be cheaper if they are in full rate production for the USAF?

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Stitch
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:53 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 60):
FEDEX 767-300F aircraft are mostly volume limited and not weight limited, why would FEDEX choose for an other subtype with less cargo volume.

The 767-2C would have been perfect as an A310-200 and A310-300 replacement, but those are almost all phased out.

It's a fair bit closer to the A300-600F in terms of volume than the 767-300F.
 
LMP737
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RE: KC-46 Production, Testing And Delivery Part 4

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 58):
Major General Peter Bogdan - talked up commercial sales of the plane for possible customers including FedEx and UPS.

Would either UPS or Fed Ex want an airplane with the number of differences that the 767-2C/KC-46 has with their current fleet of 767F? Do they want to lug around all the added structural weight that the 2C has which cuts into the amount of cargo they can fly.

[Edited 2016-04-18 21:50:25]
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