To mark the onset of serial production deliveries, Saab flew an eight-ship formation of test and serial Gripen Es for both Sweden and Brazil

SAS A340 wrote:

Sweden and Brazil will soon have a meeting regarding the military defense of some sort, Sweden needs the replacement of C-130H and Brazil wants more Gripen E.....golden opportunity for the KC-390 here. (only my opinion)

art wrote:

SAS A340 wrote:

Sweden and Brazil will soon have a meeting regarding the military defense of some sort, Sweden needs the replacement of C-130H and Brazil wants more Gripen E.....golden opportunity for the KC-390 here. (only my opinion)

How soon does Sweden need to replace C-130? I thought Sweden decided to upgrade the fleet to last until about 2030. I could understand negotiating an agreement in principle for Sweden to order some KC-390 for delivery late this decade and for Brazil to order more Gripen for delivery sooner than that.

It seems to me that SAAB would welcome more Gripen E orders and that Embraer would be extremely pleased to get more KC-390 orders after the cutback in the number ordered for the FAB. In any event Brazil cannot wait very much longer to order more Gripen unless it wants the Brazilian production and/or assembly lines to go quiet after 2025 (all 36 Gripen E ordered were scheduled for delivery before 2025 according to the link below).

https://www.flightglobal.com/brazil-fin ... 46.article

SAS A340 wrote:

The original plan was to have the Hercs flying to 2030 after well-needed upgrades. From what I have heard, that hasn´t gone according to plan. Let's say that you want 6-8 KC-390 fully operational, we are well within that timeframe with a couple of years overlap, its time to make a decision

art wrote:

SAS A340 wrote:

The original plan was to have the Hercs flying to 2030 after well-needed upgrades. From what I have heard, that hasn´t gone according to plan. Let's say that you want 6-8 KC-390 fully operational, we are well within that timeframe with a couple of years overlap, its time to make a decision

I guess that Brazil needs to order some more Gripen soon. If the C-130 update is causing problems, soon might be a good time to decide on ordering KC-390, too. Increased order quantities should result in a lower price, so both Embraer and SAAB products should become more competitive. OK, aircraft are costly but if you're going to buy them sometime anyway why not buy when the manufacturer badly needs more orders to get the unit cost down? KC-390/Gripen E offer a symbiotic gain, win/win for both countries, it seems to me.

art wrote:

I look forward to hearing what happens when the respective defence personnel meet up.

SeamanBeaumont wrote:

art wrote:

I guess that Brazil needs to order some more Gripen soon. If the C-130 update is causing problems, soon might be a good time to decide on ordering KC-390, too. Increased order quantities should result in a lower price, so both Embraer and SAAB products should become more competitive. OK, aircraft are costly but if you're going to buy them sometime anyway why not buy when the manufacturer badly needs more orders to get the unit cost down? KC-390/Gripen E offer a symbiotic gain, win/win for both countries, it seems to me.

Neither order would significantly increase the build rate, just extend the line. In that case no real reduction in cost.

art wrote:

SeamanBeaumont wrote:

art wrote:

I guess that Brazil needs to order some more Gripen soon. If the C-130 update is causing problems, soon might be a good time to decide on ordering KC-390, too. Increased order quantities should result in a lower price, so both Embraer and SAAB products should become more competitive. OK, aircraft are costly but if you're going to buy them sometime anyway why not buy when the manufacturer badly needs more orders to get the unit cost down? KC-390/Gripen E offer a symbiotic gain, win/win for both countries, it seems to me.

Neither order would significantly increase the build rate, just extend the line. In that case no real reduction in cost.

Mmmm... you think that the unit cost of producing 15 rather than 28 aircraft for FAB is the same? Subcontractors who agreed to a price of $x per unit for 28 units will accept the same $x per unit for 15 units? Same setup cost to recover over 15/28 of the original number of units. That = higher price to me.

The FAB (Brazilian Air Force) wants to buy another 30 Gripen fighters, almost doubling the fleet of 36 that are gradually arriving in the country. Meanwhile, he began to assemble the most modern and expensive arsenal of missiles that Brazil has ever had to equip the plane.

"Capacity-based planning takes us today, based on our employment assumptions, to 66 planes," Force commander Carlos de Almeida Baptista Junior told Folha.

The redesign reduces speculation of an ideal fleet of more than 120 aircraft, made since Brazil began discussing the acquisition of a new fighter in 2001.

More than 30 Gripen Es are now in various stages of the production process. Saab last October stated that full-rate production would be achieved this year, but has not disclosed its annual output target.

A first example of the fighter to be completed in Brazil will enter final assembly next year.

The initial project predicted that the planes would be designed and assembled in Brazil, but under a new argument the eight fighters will be produced entirely in Sweden.

Baptista Jr [Commander of the air force] explained that the idea now is to promote the national production of the single seat version (F-39E), which allows more planes to be made in Brazil, with greater participation of other companies.

A Saab confirmou que as negociações para o segundo lote de 26 caças F-39 Gripen E/F com a Força Aérea Brasileira (FAB) já foi iniciada.

Gripen E performs first Meteor missile test shot

SAAB is celebrating another milestone in the Gripen program: the production of the first forward fuselage of the Gripen E fighter at its factory in Brazil. This is the most complex part being produced in the country and required effort and specialized knowledge from professionals to complete it.

The forward fuselage of the aircraft is the cell where the pilot sits. In it are installed the ejection seat, flight controls such as joystick and pedals, the canopy, the AESA radar, the cabin displays and all the aircraft's avionics.

The part was finished in the last week of October and will be sent to Sweden to compose the global supply chain for the production of the next fighters, since the structures produced in Brazil or in the headquarters are identical and can be installed in any Gripen aircraft.

SAS A340 wrote:

Even ahead of Sweden it seems

art wrote:

SAS A340 wrote:

Even ahead of Sweden it seems

I think that around 2016(?) the Swedish government pushed back delivery to SwAF by a year.

By the way, I recall that when the order for 60 Gripen E/F for SwAF was placed there was an option for 10 more. Has that been sunk by the retention and upgrading of the C/D fleet? I would have thought that with a war on in Ukraine and with Sweden joining NATO because of it, Sweden would be looking to enlarge its Gripen E fleet.

Brazil plans to invest 52.8 billion reals (U.S. $10.6 billion) for research, development and equipment acquisition efforts for its military, including nearly doubling the size of its Gripen fighter fleet...

Brazil plans to invest 52.8 billion reals (U.S. $10.6 billion) for research, development and equipment acquisition efforts for its military...

The minister also pointed to another program under PAC: the purchase of nine C-390 Millennium planes — initially known as KC-390 — produced by Embraer, along with the development of a refueling version of the model.

art wrote:

I wonder how useful F-39 is to Brazil at the moment. Scheduled deliveries according to

https://www.defesanet.com.br/destaque/n ... eevaluate/

2022 04
2023 04
2024 03
2025 02 (plus 02 two seaters)
2026 06 (plus 04 two seaters)

How useful to an air force is such a small number of aircraft delivered over several years? More than 4 years from first delivery to getting enough for a squadron seems like a very long time to me.

GDB wrote:

Brazil does not face any obvious short to medium term threats.
They need a fighter, never that many and tend to run them to the end of their effective lives, as with the Mirage 111’s and F-5E’s.

Saab and the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) have entered into an agreement regarding new functionalities and adjusted delivery schedules for the Gripen E and Gripen C/D. The agreement relates to the period 2023-2030...

Production of around 30 Gripen E aircraft are currently underway, which means that Saab has started manufacturing of close to one third of the fighters currently in the order backlog.

Saab and the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) have entered into an agreement regarding new functionality and adjusted delivery schedules for Gripen E and Gripen C/D. The agreement relates to the period 2023-2030 and the order value is approximately SEK 5.8 billion.

Two governments and two aircraft manufacturers from each country, Embraer and Saab, are negotiating a new procurement model. Delegations from both countries are at the stage of completing discussions regarding the mechanisms and agreements that will be reached.
On April 11, Embraer and Saab agreed to jointly offer the C-390 Millennium to the Swedish Air Force and possibly other countries, discuss options for integrating Saab technologies on the Brazilian airlifter, and collaborate on future fighter technologies.
Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva received a delegation of Swedish authorities and businessmen on November 23.
According to local media, the delegation discussed Brazil's purchase of the second batch of F-39 Gripen fighter jets and the sale of the KC-390 multirole transport aircraft to the Swedish Air Force.

Saab’s Johan Segertoft, head of the Gripen business unit, explained exactly why the changes had been made:

“At an early stage in the development process, an opportunity was identified to improve Gripen’s heavy load-carrying capabilities, as a clear benefit to future operations. A decision was made to implement this enhancement as quickly as possible. We have made updates to the software and some modifications affecting canard and elevon surfaces. These changes bring immediate benefits, prove our ability to reliably deliver growth, and consistently improve aircraft’s potential for the future.”