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sovietjet
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:32 am

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Tue May 27, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 191):
1. Air superiority: Make sure that our troops don't have to face enemy CAS;

2. Interdiction: Make sure the enemy doesn't have the ability to easily resupply and reinforce their front line troops;

3. Transportation: Make sure our troops and their equipment get to where they need to be, along with all of their supplies;

Besides for maybe point 3, these are almost irrelevant when it comes to Afghanistan and all other recent wars.

Air superiority? Yes, the Taliban and insurgents have so many aircraft going up to challenge the coalition forces we need all the fighters and air-to-air assets we can send  

Interdiction? Front line troops? Maybe I am totally out of the loop here but AFAIK there is no "front line" in Afghanistan. Coalition forces get ambushed, and skirmishes occur but hardly ever is there a front line in the traditional sense that needs to be resupplied. They run away, hide, regroup and attack somewhere else. There's hardly "supply lines" running to the trenches at the front line.

Transportation? You are right. Our troops and equipment need to get to where they need to be safely. But when a group of enemy insurgents surprises them and corners them guess what they need? Oh yea, CAS. And what aircraft sits around able to loiter the longest in case that is needed? Oh yea, the A-10. Taliban don't care about air supremacy or supply lines. Their methods of guerilla warfare bypass the need for most of that.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3387
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Wed May 28, 2014 9:08 am

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 200):
Besides for maybe point 3, these are almost irrelevant when it comes to Afghanistan and all other recent wars.

We should not continue to think like we are going to fight like in past wars, but plan for the future conflicts. With Pacific Pivot, the anticipation is that we will be fighting nation-states, not insurgents.

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 198):
Oh come on, I called you out on your bluff and you know it! You tried to suggest that OEF was going on for a long time before A-10's arrived in theater when that is absolutely not the case, then try to back-pedal by saying, "...yeah, well so were the F-16's, F-15E's, etc." to cover your tracks.

And yet USMC Harriers of VMA-311, attached to the 15th MEU were operating in Afghanistan in December 2001 out of a forward base in Kandahar, and were operating off USN amphibs off the coast of Pakistan in October 2001, 6 months prior to the introduction of the A-10 to OEF, and it was another month before A-10's were actually in country.

And F-15E's and F-16's were operating out of Kuwait during OEF on the first night of conflict in Afghanistan! USN Hornets were dropping bombs in Afghanistan on the first night as well. For you to declare that:

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 194):
Um, A-10's were involved from the very start, flying missions out of a country close to Afghanistan until they could start operating from within Afghanistan.

Is a complete falsehood that is not supported by the USAF, and you know it. It took 6 months from the start of hostilities before the A-10 even arrived in theatre, and before then, the rest of the USAF, USN, and USMC had already shown up. The Marines got there first with their Harriers and were in country even before the A-10's arrived in theatre.

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 198):
You make attempts to portray the A-10 as being just an "average" CAS platform, as if having them in theater makes no real difference, and yet deep down you are afraid to admit that is not the case.

And yet there hasn't been a situation where the non-presence of the A-10 and the presence of other platforms would have resulted in mission failure.

And come to think about it, some in the USMC, Canadian Army and the British Army would rather not have A-10's flying support due to the number of high profile fratricide incidents with the A-10's.
 
tommy1808
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Wed May 28, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 201):
With Pacific Pivot, the anticipation is that we will be fighting nation-states, not insurgents.

Not Nation-States, one specific Nation State: Communist China. In that you are correct, that conflict will almost certainly not need the A10. A hell lot more F-22s might come in Handy though. Air defense against Chengdu J-20, once they are in service in numbers, supercrusing faster than the long-distance subsonic F-35 can dash might be an iffy proposition.

best regards
Thomass
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sovietjet
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:32 am

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Wed May 28, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 201):
We should not continue to think like we are going to fight like in past wars, but plan for the future conflicts. With Pacific Pivot, the anticipation is that we will be fighting nation-states, not insurgents.

Most conflicts in the past 40 years have been more the type we see in Afghanistan. A war with a nation like China will quickly escalate to non conventional weapons.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 201):
And yet USMC Harriers of VMA-311, attached to the 15th MEU were operating in Afghanistan in December 2001 out of a forward base in Kandahar, and were operating off USN amphibs off the coast of Pakistan in October 2001, 6 months prior to the introduction of the A-10 to OEF, and it was another month before A-10's were actually in country.

USMC are always the first in. They pride themselves in that. It takes time for the A-10 squadron to work up, prepare for, and deploy when a war has just started. How long did it take for the first F-15 and F-16 squadrons to deploy there? I'm talking about fresh new ones, not ones already in the area or in Kuwait.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 201):
And F-15E's and F-16's were operating out of Kuwait during OEF on the first night of conflict in Afghanistan! USN Hornets were dropping bombs in Afghanistan on the first night as well. For you to declare that:

Those jets were already there anyway because of Iraq.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12500
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Wed May 28, 2014 6:16 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 203):
. A war with a nation like China will quickly escalate to non conventional weapons.

Nope. Chinas nuclear "minimal deterrent" policy would prevent that given the USAs vastly superior nuclear arsenal. USA/West vs. PRC is as unlikely to go nuclear as can be and might be the only conceivable conflict between nuclear armed powers that might have a chance to remain at a very low level of nuclear exchange even if it goes nuclear.

Best regard
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Thu May 29, 2014 12:05 am

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 203):
How long did it take for the first F-15 and F-16 squadrons to deploy there? I'm talking about fresh new ones, not ones already in the area or in Kuwait.

The 391st FS deployed with their F-15E's deployed to Kuwait in October 2001 in the immediate aftermath of September 11, and the 389th FS with their F-16's deployed to Qatar at the same time. Both fresh squadrons.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 203):
Those jets were already there anyway because of Iraq.

Nope, fresh jets deployed specifically for OEF. Both squadrons mentioned above deployed from Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho.
 
Cross757
Posts: 233
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Thu May 29, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 201):
And come to think about it, some in the USMC, Canadian Army and the British Army would rather not have A-10's flying support due to the number of high profile fratricide incidents with the A-10's.

Haha, now you are starting to make things up again. A-10's have not been the only cause of fratricide. And before you even think about putting blame on the A-10's, read some of the reports...the ground commanders in some cases were to blame for some of the fratricide events. But then you wouldn't know that because all of your "war" experience comes from articles you find the on internet.

So come to think of it, I notice you keep dodging my question...clearly no real experience of your own to offer up. Which is fine. Form now on whenever you say something about the A-10 or air combat in general, it will just look like "blah blah blah" to me. Go back to your video games and let the real warfighters handle the war business.
 
Scruffer
Posts: 110
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Thu May 29, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 206):
Haha, now you are starting to make things up again. A-10's have not been the only cause of fratricide. And before you even think about putting blame on the A-10's, read some of the reports...the ground commanders in some cases were to blame for some of the fratricide events. But then you wouldn't know that because all of your "war" experience comes from articles you find the on internet.

So come to think of it, I notice you keep dodging my question...clearly no real experience of your own to offer up. Which is fine. Form now on whenever you say something about the A-10 or air combat in general, it will just look like "blah blah blah" to me. Go back to your video games and let the real warfighters handle the war business.

The only people that would be able to offer up any authoritative opinion on this topic would be FACs that perform or call in multiple CAS strikes using multiple planes. I don't know your history but unless you are one of those and have seen/performed many CAS missions then you have no experience to call on, and what you say is the same as anyone else.

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 200):
Interdiction? Front line troops? Maybe I am totally out of the loop here but AFAIK there is no "front line" in Afghanistan. Coalition forces get ambushed, and skirmishes occur but hardly ever is there a front line in the traditional sense that needs to be resupplied. They run away, hide, regroup and attack somewhere else. There's hardly "supply lines" running to the trenches at the front line.

Much more was happening than just CAS in Afghanistan. There were many interdiction missions launched and successful during the many years of war. The Taliban has supply lines and lines of communication. They don't just appear out of thin air to initiate their ambushs.
 
Cross757
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:32 pm

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Thu May 29, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 207):
I don't know your history but unless you are one of those and have seen/performed many CAS missions then you have no experience to call on, and what you say is the same as anyone else.

To save you time from having to read through all the posts, my experience: A-10A/A-10C instructor pilot, around 1,400 hours in the jet (now close to 2,900 total mil time). Of the many, many troops-in-contact situations I have supported, I employed weapons on 27 of them. Mk 82, GBU, WP/HE rocket, and of course, the mighty GAU-8.
Good enough?

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 207):
They don't just appear out of thin air to initiate their ambushs.

Um yeah, actually, they do.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3387
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Fri May 30, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 208):
Um yeah, actually, they do.

And that's where you are wrong. The Taliban and their allies have arms caches, meeting places for their fighters to congregate and plan their missions. They also have supply chains where they get their ammunition, weapons and explosives, plus routes where they send new fighters from their recruiting areas.

Just because their supply chain and lines of communication aren't as visible, doesn't mean they don't have any. We've bombed the Taliban's supply chain and lines of communication early in OEF, driving them to hide them so they aren't as easy to spot.

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 206):

Haha, now you are starting to make things up again. A-10's have not been the only cause of fratricide. And before you even think about putting blame on the A-10's, read some of the reports...the ground commanders in some cases were to blame for some of the fratricide events. But then you wouldn't know that because all of your "war" experience comes from articles you find the on internet.

The A-10 is involved in more blue on blue incidents of a much more serious nature than any other platform.

And I read some of those reports. One, the Canadian board of inquiry report on the death of Pte. Mark Anthony Graham, was critical of the A-10 pilot's lack of experience, and said the incident could have been prevented, "had the pilot checked" his electronic combat display in the cockpit.

The report on the Blues and Royals incident was also critical of the pilots, stating they had "findings of cognitive and physical task overload, ineffective communication and failure to recognise identification panels by the two pilots." Furthermore, the British inquest found that the A-10 pilots were not cleared by the ground controllers to attack the spotted vehicles, nor reported the position of the vehicles they found to the ground controllers.

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 206):
So come to think of it, I notice you keep dodging my question...clearly no real experience of your own to offer up. Which is fine. Form now on whenever you say something about the A-10 or air combat in general, it will just look like "blah blah blah" to me. Go back to your video games and let the real warfighters handle the war business.

I see an issue with some people having some romantic attachment to a certain plane and do not look ahead to the next threat and challenges. It costs $$$$, folks. And we have to allocate those $$$ where they will do the most good in years to come and not prepare to fight the last war.
 
Cross757
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:32 pm

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Fri May 30, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 209):
And that's where you are wrong.

Try reading what I was replying to.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 209):
The Taliban and their allies have arms caches, meeting places for their fighters to congregate and plan their missions. They also have supply chains where they get their ammunition, weapons and explosives, plus routes where they send new fighters from their recruiting areas.

Just because their supply chain and lines of communication aren't as visible, doesn't mean they don't have any. We've bombed the Taliban's supply chain and lines of communication early in OEF, driving them to hide them so they aren't as easy to spot.

Once again, try opening your eyes when you read. I never denied any of this.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 209):
One, the Canadian board of inquiry report on the death of Pte. Mark Anthony Graham, was critical of the A-10 pilot's lack of experience
Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 209):
The report on the Blues and Royals incident was also critical of the pilots

And there are plenty of reports, including the blue-on-blue (British) in OEF in 2007 that placed the blame on the JTAC for passing his own coordinates as the target coordinates. Same for one in Iraq. The USMC commander was blamed for telling the A-10's that no friendly troops were beyond a certain gridline, and that everything beyond that gridline was enemy. That was not the case as he had lost track of his own troops. Regrettably, fratricide happens. Its part of the fog and friction of war. And CAS pilots are never cavalier about it, as it will always be the worst thing a CAS pilot could ever deal with. But I know how much you hate the A-10 and ALWAYS look for every little thing to be critical of it. Which is fine. It's easy to be critical when you have never been there, isn't it?

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 209):
I see an issue with some people having some romantic attachment to a certain plane and do not look ahead to the next threat and challenges. It costs $$$$, folks. And we have to allocate those $$$ where they will do the most good in years to come and not prepare to fight the last war.

...says the armchair general. Again.
 
Scruffer
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 3:12 am

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Fri May 30, 2014 8:34 am

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 208):
To save you time from having to read through all the posts, my experience: A-10A/A-10C instructor pilot, around 1,400 hours in the jet (now close to 2,900 total mil time). Of the many, many troops-in-contact situations I have supported, I employed weapons on 27 of them. Mk 82, GBU, WP/HE rocket, and of course, the mighty GAU-8.
Good enough?

No need to get defensive. Since you have experience in the plane, what percentage of the troops in contact missions you supported could have been carried out by another asset as efficiently as the A-10 if it had been there and you were not, be it drone, another piloted plane, artillery, helicopter?


The main thing is that the A-10 is going to be taken out of the USAF. When is the only question it will not last forever. What types of instances is the A-10 better than what other support is available?

Quoting Cross757 (Reply 208):
Um yeah, actually, they do

So you are telling me they have no supply chain?
 
andydtwnwa7
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:59 pm

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Fri May 30, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 211):
No need to get defensive. Since you have experience in the plane, what percentage of the troops in contact missions you supported could have been carried out by another asset as efficiently as the A-10 if it had been there and you were not, be it drone, another piloted plane, artillery, helicopter?


The main thing is that the A-10 is going to be taken out of the USAF. When is the only question it will not last forever. What types of instances is the A-10 better than what other support is available?

Your entire comment sounds like you are just trying to pick a fight. What's your point? The CSAF (a former A-10 pilot) of all people has even admitted that while other platforms CAN perform CAS, the A-10 is undoubtedly still the most EFFICIENT at it. Which should come as no surprise; it's a purpose-built CAS platform. The decision to cut it isn't stemming from the A-10 lacking in CAS capability, it was purely a numbers game. If you want a detailed answer behind the logic, watch the video I posted earlier.

As to your "it will not last forever" comment: nothing lasts forever. You can say the exact same thing about the F-35 and every other aircraft the US military has. All this comment aims to do is ruffle feathers. If your looking for constructive dialogue, at least read the entire thread first since the questions you posed have been answered/discussed by several already. If you're just looking to ruffle feathers/have a childish argument, then I'd recommend taking your comments to youtube or facebook.
 
Cross757
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:32 pm

RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Fri May 30, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 211):
No need to get defensive

Lol...get defensive?! Which part of, "To spare you have having to read..." sounds like getting defensive? I was trying to do you a favor. If I had said, "Go back and read all of the posts yourself...", now that would be getting defensive.

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 211):
So you are telling me they have no supply chain?

Not at all, so to clarify even though I thought it was already clear, I was responding to your sentence of:

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 207):
They don't just appear out of thin air to initiate their ambushs.

.
...which I assure you, they do. And these "logistics supply chains" you hear about are far more elusive and less "traditional" than you can imagine. It's not like our enemies there are diving down the road in big marked trucks from "Insurgency Depot".

Quoting Scruffer (Reply 211):
Since you have experience in the plane, what percentage of the troops in contact missions you supported could have been carried out by another asset as efficiently as the A-10 if it had been there and you were not, be it drone, another piloted plane, artillery, helicopter?

An easier way for me to answer that question is what percentage of TIC"s do I feel could NOT have been supported by anything but an A-10. Difficult to answer because there are so many variables involved in a TIC, but I could look at the number of times that the GAU-8 was the only real option available to help the friendlies break contact with the enemy due to the extremely close proximity of one to the other, and that would be roughly 20-25%.
But what you need to understand is the other great (I would argue) strengths the A-10 has that lends itself extremely well to a CAS fight and makes the A-10 so efficient at it. It's not about arriving on station, dropping a few bombs, and leaving 10 minutes later. The great loiter time of the A-10 is one. Coming off the tanker, I easily had 2 hours of "playtime" to be overhead before I even had to think about looking for another tanker; from experience, most F-16's I worked with had about 30 min, F-15E's maybe an hour. That's two hours of an A-10 being able to orbit overhead and build a comprehensive "picture" of what was going on down on the ground: location of friendlies, potential/probably enemy COA's and locations, terrain, threats, etc. The low speed which allowed us to fly in a relatively tight circle overhead meant that we could keep continuous sensor and eyeball coverage at all times, not just sensors. If a TIC suddenly broke out, I didn't have to always wait for a full 9-line, I could roll in and have 30-mm rounds on target within 15-20 seconds with my wingman just a few seconds behind that with the JTAC providing Type 1 control/clearance on final by looking at the nose position of my jet and knowing that my aim was on target. The ability to instantly react is a major strength, thanks to having my eyeballs on the target area as well. Or if I could fire a few WP rockets to mark an area, get corrections from the JTAC, and have my wingman once again correct his aim from there, within 10-15 seconds.
There were even a few times when I had to operate under an overcast layer of clouds in the Korengal Valley, constantly turning to avoid the mountains, which visually employing the gun. You won't see a B-1 or a B-52 doing that, which of course is not their fault, just a limitation because of their lack of maneuverability.
Most every other fixed-wing CAS platform is heavily dependent on their sensors, they have no visual employment option. When the weather or other environmental factors neutralize the effectiveness of those sensors, they now become dependent solely on what the JTAC can provide. That may be a digital 9-line that can be addressed using a JDAM, but what if it isn't? What if the threat to the friendlies is on the rooftop of a compound 20-30 meters across the road form them? What weapon do they have that can be used without an extremely high risk of fratricide? Not many. The GAU-8 can and has been used effectively with minimal (compared to other choices) risks to the friendlies...I know because I've done it. Is that always the case? Of course not. But is sure great to have the option if it in needed.
Some will make you think that the "gun is dead" and "not really used that much anymore" because there are smart weapons now. Funny, because we used the gun just about more than anything else from my experience. While smart weapons are indeed useful and are certainly changing the game, sometimes things just have to be solved with a gun.
CAS can not be neatly packaged and generalized like other missions such as DCA or air-refueling. I cringe when I read posts form people with zero combat CAS experience talk about how they think CAS works based on reading a document or something they found online. They will still inevitably offer up something that sounds like fact, or as if they know better than everyone else how CAS is done these days, but at the end of the day it will be nothing more than an opinion masquerading as doctrine. It sounds official, maybe will even contain quotes and references to official documents, but it still is not the whole truth. You have to be there and see it to understand it. Just like someone may be able to read an anatomy and physiology textbook and memorize it cover to cover, but that doesn't mean I would let that person perform open heart surgery on me, you know?
I understand the force has to modernize. There is no denying it. I just see little sense in retiring an aircraft from a mission it was designed to perform and has done a remarkable job of in order to preserve a mission that as of now, is not needed, and will be addressed by F-35, when it does become operational.
 
ThePointblank
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:03 am

The House Appropriations Committee has killed an amendment that would kept A-10's flying for another year:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...-Easily-Kill-Measure-Save-10-Fleet

Quote:
WASHINGTON — US House appropriators on Tuesday killed an amendment that would have kept alive the Air Force’s A-10 fleet, becoming the first defense panel to endorse the service’s cost-cutting plan.

The House Appropriations Committee broke with the House and Senate Armed Services committees, which last month used budgetary cuts from elsewhere in the Pentagon’s budget to keep the A-10s flying for one more year.

The amendment to keep the A-10, offered by Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Ga., was shot down via a show of hands, with 13 members voting for it and 23 voting to kill it.

It would have transferred from other parts of the Air Force’s operations and maintenance account $339.3 million “for sustainment of A-10 aircraft operations.”

He and other panel members voiced support for the amendment despite the air service’s wishes to retire the aging fleet to save money, arguing no other aircraft can perform the close-air support mission like the “Warthogs.”

Defense subcommittee Chairman Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, R-N.J., however, warned if the panel backed the amendment, the Air Force next year would propose cutting other fleets like its B-2 bomber or F-16 fighter — or retiring them completely.

Frelinghuysen said retiring the A-10s would save “billions, not millions.”

Defense subcommittee Ranking Member Rep. Pete Visclosky, D-Ind., said Air Force leaders have said the A-10 would not be among their priorities if the service suddenly got more funding.

He also told his colleagues “we are the Appropriations Committee, we have to pay for things,” suggesting the proposed offset was not budgetarily sound.

Additionally, the House Appropriations Committee approved funding for 12 EA-18's that the USN had on it wish list, 38 F-35's, 4 more than requested, refueling for USS George Washington, more money for KC-46A, and the USAF's Long Range Bomber Program:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ves-Massive-Pentagon-Spending-Bill

Quote:
Aided by $2.1 billion worth of items the committee identified within the Pentagon’s spending request that it could avoid funding, including $592 million that the Pentagon overestimated it needed for civilian personnel costs, it was able to overturn some proposed weapon system cuts and add funds for platforms the military did not request.

Case in point: electronic warfare aircraft for the Navy.

The sea service’s 2015 request did not ask for any E/A-18G Growler electronic warfare jets, but the full panel signed off on its Defense subcommittee’s proposal to shift $975 million for 12 Growlers the Navy publicly admitted it really wanted but excluded from its request.

The committee shot down an amendment, offered by Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Ga., that would have blocked an Air Force plan to retire its A-10 fleet to cut costs. It was defeated, with 13 yays and 23 nos, via a show of hands.

It would have proposed transferring from other parts of the Air Force’s operations and maintenance account $339.3 million “for sustainment of A-10 aircraft operations.”

The vote made HAC the first congressional defense panel to endorse the service’s A-10 retirement plan.

The panel’s bill, which should be on the House floor before the chamber’s annual August recess, would provide the Pentagon $91.2 billion to send to arms manufacturers. That would be $1.6 billion more than the Obama administration requested.

Specifically, it calls for $5.8 billion next year to buy 38 Lockheed Martin-made F-35 fighters, four more than requested.

Following the lead of the House and Senate Armed Services committees, the House Appropriations defense subpanel wants to maintain an 11-aircraft carrier fleet. It found $789 million to shift toward refueling the USS George Washington, which would keep that number of flattops in the active rotation.

In another win for Boeing, the bill includes $1.6 billion for the Air Force’s KC-46A aerial tanker program.

In addition to the aerial tanker and F-35, the bill would fund the Air Force’s new long-range bomber program, the Navy’s unmanned carrier-based drone aircraft initiative, the sea service’s next-generation submarine, the Army-Marine Corps Joint Light Tactical Vehicle effort, the Navy’s P8-A multimission maritime aircraft initiative and the RQ-4 Triton drone aircraft program for the Navy and Air Force.
 
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seahawk
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RE: ACC Commander On Upgrades/Cuts- F22,F35,A10,U2

Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:46 am

Good news for the USAF.

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