catdaddy63
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:27 am

F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:47 pm

Two TUL based Oklahoma Air National Guard F-16's collided over southern Kansas earlier today, one aircraft crashed, one returned to base with wingtip damage. Minor injuries reported to the pilot that ejected.

Story here: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local...b-0e38-5eac-939e-f90fb27eb78f.html
 
Cadet985
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:18 am

Glad to hear that both pilots are okay.

Marc
 
ThePointblank
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:12 am

The Oklahoma ANG flies Block 42 birds. The bird that crashed was 89-019, delivered in 1990.
 
andrej
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:37 am

More info (and quite an informative website) at f-16.net


http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article4901.html
 
ThePointblank
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:10 am

Accident report is out, along with pictures of the damaged jet that managed to make it back:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...ter-half-its-wing-was-sheared-off/

Basically, miscommunication between the two pilots. One was an experienced instructor who elected to eject, the other was a relative newcomer to the squadron.

The pictures of the damaged jet really do drive it home:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2015/02/f-16-wing-missing.jpg&w=1484

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2015/02/f-16-missing-wing-2.jpg&w=1484
 
mrg
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:06 am

The pilots came out of it alive. One of the two planes made it back. Could have been worse.

Do you think that the AF will elect to repair the plane? It would be a pity if it were to be scrapped.
 
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Spacepope
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting mrg (Reply 5):
Do you think that the AF will elect to repair the plane?

Is it possible to rob a wing off of a retired F-16 in the boneyard?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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Aesma
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:22 pm

It's quite old and might never fly right again, I doubt it will be repaired.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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larshjort
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:20 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):

Is it possible to rob a wing off of a retired F-16 in the boneyard?


It is fairly easy to remove the wing. It is about 20-30 bolts + various Electric, hydralic and fuel connections. The big question is whether the wing attach point sustained any damage.

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
ThePointblank
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
It's quite old and might never fly right again, I doubt it will be repaired.

Meh, this airframe was only delivered back in 1990, so actually not that old. This is also a F-16 Block 42E, and appears to have the HAVE GLASS modifications as well. If they deem it worthwhile to fix, they will fix the jet.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:45 am

These guys stay busy too as they sit alert in Houston at EFD replacing the former 147 FW that is now 147 RW Preds.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
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ssteve
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 4):
Accident report is out, along with pictures of the damaged jet that managed to make it back:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...-off/

The pilot who ejected landed only 60 feet from the wreck. That's crazy.
 
A320ajm
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:00 am

Them pictures are scary! I don't know much about aerodynamics but I'm surprised that damaged wing supplied enough lift for the aircraft to land back at the airport. Great piloting!

A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
Ozair
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:50 am

Quoting a320ajm (Reply 12):
I don't know much about aerodynamics but I'm surprised that damaged wing supplied enough lift for the aircraft to land back at the airport. Great piloting!

For the F-16 the body of the aircraft provides up to 40% of the lift, hence with one wing and most of another there is enough lift generated. It becomes an issue of stability past that.

This Israeli F-15 landed without one wing...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/thomasdw/f15_wing.jpg

Story is here. http://theaviationist.com/2014/09/15/f-15-lands-with-one-wing/
 
ThePointblank
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:11 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 11):
The pilot who ejected landed only 60 feet from the wreck. That's crazy.

The thing is, the pilot that ejected could have very easily gone down with his jet. As per the report, he was spatially disoriented, and was unsure about what was going on with his aircraft, while trying to get some control input.

The only reason why he ejected was because the pilot that hit him screamed at him over the radio to eject as the other pilot saw he was out of control.

The report lays out the entire sequence of events:

http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftA...uments/2015/102014_F16C_Kansas.pdf
 
TheSonntag
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:04 am

Why are such reports unclassified? They seem to include a lot of information?

What will happen to the pilot MP-2 after such an investigation? Will he be allowed to fly in the future?
 
HaveBlue
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 11):
The pilot who ejected landed only 60 feet from the wreck. That's crazy.

That is incorrect, but an easy mistake to make. The ejection seat landed 60 feet from the wreck, the pilot (MP1 for Mishap Pilot 1) landed a quarter mile from where the MA1 (Mishap Aircraft 1) landed. That was significant because it showed that there was very little to no forward velocity to the aircraft. The pilots parachute, riding on the wind however, was different.

From the article:

"MP1 landed in his parachute approximately a quarter mile southwest of where MA1 hit the ground." (Tab V-1.7).

"The ejection seat fell within twenty yards of the
aircraft indicating little or no forward airspeed at the time of the ejection" (Tab H-14).
 
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Spacepope
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Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting Ozair (Reply 13):
This Israeli F-15 landed without one wing...

Pretty sure your first pic is edited, made for the dramatic retelling of the event on a Cable channel a few years back, not the incident aircraft.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
andrej
Posts: 1200
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:31 am

RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 17):
Pretty sure your first pic is edited, made for the dramatic retelling of the event on a Cable channel a few years back, not the incident aircraft.

IIRC that is a still from actual footage.

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 14):
http://www.airforcemag.com/AircraftA...uments/2015/102014_F16C_Kansas.pdf

Thank you very much for the link!
 
Ozair
Posts: 4052
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 17):

Pretty sure your first pic is edited, made for the dramatic retelling of the event on a Cable channel a few years back, not the incident aircraft.

Thanks, I didn't even realize but now you mention it you can see maybe the History "H" in the lower right.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 15):
Why are such reports unclassified? They seem to include a lot of information?

There is nothing specific or detailed on the tactics, techniques or procedures for operating the jet in anger which would be classified information. By releasing it at unclassified, they can get the widest possible dissemination and the whole aviation community can learn from the incident.
 
A320ajm
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 11:57 pm

RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting Ozair (Reply 13):

Thanks - that's really interesting!
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
29erUSA187
Posts: 1277
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RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:42 am

Quoting Ozair (Reply 13):

Holy crap. Wouldn't the hydraulic fluid bleed out of damaged tubes in the wings? How much aileron did the pilots have to use to counter that?!?
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3181
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: F-16's Collide Over Kansas

Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:12 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 21):
Holy crap. Wouldn't the hydraulic fluid bleed out of damaged tubes in the wings? How much aileron did the pilots have to use to counter that?!?

The F-15 has a triple hydraulic system, complete with valves that close if the system detects a section downstream of the valve drops below normal operating pressure. The system will self-test if it detects a drop in pressure, and keep the affected valves closed.

Furthermore, the F-15's hydraulic system is individually powered on both sides. The right side of the aircraft is powered by the left engine, and the left side is powered by the right engine. There is also a third loop that can provide power to the entire hydraulic system. As such, the F-15 can fly even if it looses 2 of the 3 hydraulic systems.

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