Baexecutive
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Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:44 am

According to The Sunday Times, the fleet of 6 HS125 that make up the royal flight, are to be axed. It says no replacement is to be sought, any info on what they will use now? Virgin Trains lol.
 
Andy33
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:50 am

Quoting baexecutive (Thread starter):

Since the Royal Train still exists and is used, several members of the Royal Family are qualified helicopter pilots, and increasingly scheduled flights are used, probably no replacement is needed.
 
acelanzarote
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:09 pm

Maybe the Royals should just buy their own plane. Then then can do what they want without having to justify it all the time. Anyway where not these 125´s also used for other Government duties?
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 2):

Most if not all flights on these aircraft were made by politicians and high level MOD staff anyway, surely some destinations ie Air Force bases, remote airfields and for speed, therefore best use of time would merit a small transport fleet. Would an aircraft be chartered or are there any other transport aircraft such as the BAe 146 that wills be used instead?
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:27 pm

Don't worry because I'm sure the British taxpayers will keep them all in private jets and first class air tickets for some time to come. We won't see them on Easyjet, except for the occasional publicity stunt.
 
starrymarkb
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:31 pm

The Royals or the Ministers?

The Royals already put their travel out to tender anyway, which ever is cheaper gets used. (Private travel is at their own expense)
 
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par13del
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:33 pm

Anyone looking at the issue of maintenance and the high profile pax these a/c support?
What is the GA accident rate in the UK and EU in general?
 
BA0197
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 4):
Don't worry because I'm sure the British taxpayers will keep them all in private jets and first class air tickets for some time to come. We won't see them on Easyjet, except for the occasional publicity stunt.

On official state visits, the Royals are increasingly using BA (and BA's Royal Suite for Her Majesty) on scheduled services, saving the UK Taxpayer million of £'s over a few years. Private travel is at their own expense. They are simply fulfilling their duty as head of state and First class travel is appropriate for their position. What is so wrong with that?

I doubt you would be complaining if a CEO of a FTSE100 company was flying BA First, or indeed the President of Portugal.

The Royals in this country are, in my opinion, too heavily scrutinised for trivial issues such as F class travel. Any head of state deserves that. At least they are not flying two 742s every time they need to go anywhere. Great value for money IMHO.
 
ytz
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:40 pm

Netjets is a great substitute for official VVIP transport. Probably cheaper too.
 
lehovec
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 4):
Don't worry because I'm sure the British taxpayers will keep them all in private jets and first class air tickets for some time to come. We won't see them on Easyjet, except for the occasional publicity stunt.

Actually, prince Harry flew easyJet quite a few time with no media coverage. Last time about 6 months ago from STN to EDI.
 
vv701
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:58 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 4):
Don't worry because I'm sure the British taxpayers will keep them all in private jets and first class air tickets for some time to come. We won't see them on Easyjet, except for the occasional publicity stunt.

The Royal Household has to budget.

It does not receive any monies from the British taxpayer. Its income comprises 15 per cent of the monies generated by the Crown Estate. The other 85 per cent goes directly to the Treasury. The Crown Estate is run independently of both the Royal Household and the British Government by the Crown Estate Commissioners. It generated a profit of just over £240 million in the 12 months ending 31 March 2013. So the Royal Household received an income of around £36 million that year.

From this income the Royal Household pays for all travel. The rates charged when they use an aircraft of the 32 (The Royal) Squadron are £4000 per flying hour for the BAE 125 and £5000 per flying hour for the BAE 146. These charges are so high that the Royal Family rarely uses any of these aircraft. They therefore mainly operate for the Government with the most 'popular' route being Northolt to Brussels for EU meetings.

For the latest year I have seen data, 2010-11, the Royal Household only used 32 Squadron aircraft on two occasions. The Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall flew on a 32 Squadron BAE 146 to Madrid and Lisbon. There was also a one hour non-itemised flight by someone from the Royal Household on a 32 Squadron BAE 125.

It has been much more common to see the Queen and Prince Philip fly on a chartered, usually BA, aircraft while the rest of the Royal Family travel on scheduled flights.

Here, for example, is Prince William pictured on a crowded commuter aiurcrafrt in the USA when he attended the wedding of a friend in Texas:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...merican-airlines-article-1.1781300
 
NDiesel
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:14 pm

Coming to think of it, Prince William flew commercial today, NYC-IAD.

Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with aviation
 
ytz
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:36 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
The rates charged when they use an aircraft of the 32 (The Royal) Squadron are £4000 per flying hour for the BAE 125 and £5000 per flying hour for the BAE 146.

Wonder if they could get cheaper if they modernized to a new turboprop.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 8):
Netjets is a great substitute for official VVIP transport. Probably cheaper too.

A very valid point, as long as security issues are addressed.

There is also the "chipping in" side of it, Offical Royal visits require co op from both sides, "one does not imposes ones self on another country without request." So there will be an eliment of sharing the cost of the trip all round.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
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GCT64
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:55 pm

If you look at the annual report on Royal Travel:
http://www.royal.gov.uk/pdf/Annual%2...3-14/Royal%20Travel%20Appendix.pdf

You will see that no royal flights were taken on the RAF HS125s in the 2013-14 period.
6 flights were taken on the BAe146s
139 flights on the Royal Flight S-76
86 flights on charters (fixed and rotary wing)

Losing the 125s does beg the question of how the politicians and high-level military are going to travel when time is of the essence or the locations are obscure - presumably charters?

It is rather embarrassing to look at the German, French, Italian and Spanish fleets and compare them with the non-existent (heading to zero) RAF fleet.

[Edited 2014-12-09 09:56:16]
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:59 pm

Seeing the royals fly coach just shows how unimportant first class is for short-haul flying. No longer does flying first class imply any kind of personal status. It's probably best to look at where the royals are heading and staying (if you care about such things) to get a complete picture of their lifestyle.
 
B737900
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 5):
The Royals already put their travel out to tender anyway, which ever is cheaper gets used. (Private travel is at their own expense)

I wasn't aware that the royal family had any income of their own so whatever funds they expend are from the public purse. The royals are supported at the great expense of public who largely support their monarch. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:02 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13):
There is also the "chipping in" side of it, Offical Royal visits require co op from both sides, "one does not imposes ones self on another country without request." So there will be an eliment of sharing the cost of the trip all round.

It's beyond "sharing". Commonwealth countries who invite their monarch / royals for an official visit arrange travel and pick up the tab (eg., Canada sends its VIP Transport, New Zealand flies them on NZ, etc.). There are many threads where this is discussed.

The Royal Flight in question is for domestic ops (or possibly to European visits. I would imagine), in which case the royals would be representing the UK abroad. Can't see it being much use on a flight to any commonwealth countries (I doubt that the HS125 would be very comfortable TATL or TPAC - with all of the stops for fuel and/or to let the Corgis out to do their business).

Here is a question, I recall seeing pictures of the BAe 146 used as the Royal Flight. When did that change? Or am I losing it?
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:09 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 7):
The Royals in this country are, in my opinion, too heavily scrutinised for trivial issues such as F class travel. Any head of state deserves that. At least they are not flying two 742s every time they need to go anywhere. Great value for money IMHO.

Not to insult the Queen, she does not carry a bulls eye on her back or have the large amount of responsibilities world or nation wide as the President of the United States. Unfortunately the President has a need for two 747-200s along with a bullit proof car carried separately. Also, fuel for a return trip out of the United States has to be tankard in on a separate aircraft to guarantee that the fuel used on the presidential aircraft has not been tampered with. The Presidential 747s also have inflight refueling capabilities.
Where was George Bush after 9-11 started. Flying around in Air Force One, one of those 747-200s, so he was not a stationary target. One of the three hijacked aircraft was crashed into the pentagon, while the forth, flight 91, was believed to be on it's way to the White House or Capital building which were evacuated, until it was forced to crash in Pennsylvania by the passengers on the aircraft.
Where was the Queen or PM after this started? Similar crash attempts could of happened in Britain.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
StTim
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:20 pm

Maybe not as big a bulls eye but certainly would be seen as a high value target by many terrorist organisations.

One of the differences is that Queenie is head of state - not head of the executive.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 7):

The Royals in this country are, in my opinion, too heavily scrutinised for trivial issues such as F class travel. Any head of state deserves that. At least they are not flying two 742s every time they need to go anywhere. Great value for money IMHO.

Very well said. The Royal Family more than pay their way by promoting British tourism, products like Rolls Royce jet engines and many other items. They don't own the palaces anymore than the president owns the White House. They do not own the Crown Jewels--they are held in trust for the State. When the Queen shows up to view a new Land Rover facility sales skyrocket (and she herself drives one that is about 20 years old). The Royals do own a helicopter (it is painted a dark burgundy color) and is used by members of the family traveling on official business--and the Queen personally approves (or disapproves) of each request.

For many years now they have relied on two well-used BAE-146 aircraft of the Royal Air Force for short trips within the UK or Europe. The Queen is very frugal and monitors expenditures closely.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
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mariner
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting B737900 (Reply 16):
I wasn't aware that the royal family had any income of their own so whatever funds they expend are from the public purse. The royals are supported at the great expense of public who largely support their monarch. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sure they do, it is a very wealthy family. Princes William and Harry, for example, got £10 million - each - from Princess Diana's estate.

There is a difference between when the monarch is acting as Head of State and when acting as an individual and it's a complex formula worked out over the years.

Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace are owned by the nation, the monarch simply has use of them, but Sandringham and Balmoral are privately owned by the family.

When one of them goes on an official visit, the nation pays - when the Queen goes to Sandringham or Balmoral, she pays.

There's an entail on Sandringham though, it has to be owned by the head of the family - the reigning monarch. So Edward VIII inherited Sandringham from his father, but when he abdicated he had to sell it to his brother - the new king, George VI. Edward had no choice, and he always complained that his brother, the new king, didn't pay him enough.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
There's an entail on Sandringham though, it has to be owned by the head of the family - the reigning monarch. So Edward VIII inherited Sandringham from his father, but when he abdicated he had to sell it to his brother - the new king, George VI. Edward had no choice, and he always complained that his brother, the new king, didn't pay him enough.

The Duke of Windsor, formerly HM King Edward VIII was less than honest in his financial dealings with King George VI. This is documented in many books and films on the abdication.

The Queen does personally own Sandringham and Balmoral and they will pass to The Prince of Wales upon his accession to the throne. It will be interesting to see if he will want a personal aircraft since he is qualified as a Royal Air Force pilot in his own right. But let's hope that does not happen for many years.
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GDB
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 4):
Don't worry because I'm sure the British taxpayers will keep them all in private jets and first class air tickets for some time to come. We won't see them on Easyjet, except for the occasional publicity stunt.

Most long haul Royal trips are done mainly on BA, for state visits that will mean charting the aircraft, a 747 or 777, there are VIP kits for them to be installed when needed.
BA and it's predecessor in long haul, BOAC, have done this since the start of the current Monarch's reign.
There is no dedicated RAF long haul transport, they will have been used in past for the Royals but only as a tiny part of their role, they were not brought for VIP.
These days, as shown above, the modest (by the standards of other major EU nations at least), RAF short haul VIP fleet is also mainly used for non Royal taskings.

The UK is unusual for this, you see it when there is a summit in the UK, LHR housing various types of Air Force VIP aircraft which were brought for just that purpose.
Including from plenty of nations smaller in economy, or influence than the UK.
 
jetwet1
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RE: Cuts Hit The Royal Flight...

Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting B737900 (Reply 16):

I wasn't aware that the royal family had any income of their own so whatever funds they expend are from the public purse. The royals are supported at the great expense of public who largely support their monarch. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 10):
The Royal Household has to budget.

It does not receive any monies from the British taxpayer. Its income comprises 15 per cent of the monies generated by the Crown Estate. The other 85 per cent goes directly to the Treasury. The Crown Estate is run independently of both the Royal Household and the British Government by the Crown Estate Commissioners. It generated a profit of just over £240 million in the 12 months ending 31 March 2013. So the Royal Household received an income of around £36 million that year.

As posted here, the Royal family is a net contributor to the UK treasury.

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