UAE Signs For 2 Additional C-17's

ThePointblank · Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:06 am

This is part of a major UAE defence purchase, which include a deal with Airbus and Thales for a pair of military satellites and their control systems, and a deal with Agusta-Westland for 9 AW139 helicopters. This will bring the total fleet to 8 C-17's for the UAE.

From Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...fence-boeing-idUSKBN0LU1BL20150226

Quote:

One of the last to be announced at the biennial event was a 2.27 billion dirham deal with Boeing for the purchase of two C-17 military transport planes.

Buckeyetech · Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:36 pm

Great news for UAE! Let's see if the Kiwis follow suit!

http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive...202015/Kiwis-Considering-C-17.aspx

Max Q · Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:02 am

I thought all the white tails were spoken for, if not there can't be many left.

kc135topboom · Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
I thought all the white tails were spoken for, if not there can't be many left.

Boeing built 10 white tail C-17s. Eight of which are now spoken for with this UAE order. That leaves just two C-17s available for RNZAF if they want them, but if they want more than two, they will need to order them before the end of 2015. That is when Boeing will officially close the line.

It is interesting that NZ and the UAE are choosing the C-17, and not looking at the A-400M.

zeke · Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:21 pm

Guess the answer to the Delta dossier has been determined.

Kiwirob · Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:21 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):

Boeing built 10 white tail C-17s. Eight of which are now spoken for with this UAE order.

Are you sure 8 are spoken for

2 x Australia, some say 4 but not according to the Australian MOD wedsite
2 x UAE
1 x Canada

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
It is interesting that NZ and the UAE are choosing the C-17, and not looking at the A-400M.

UAE already had 6. NZ is tyre kicking.

Legs · Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5):

I've heard rumours of Qatar being interested in another 2, taking the total of sold or almost sold white tails to 7.

Revelation · Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting legs (Reply 6):
taking the total of sold or almost sold white tails to 7

Regardless, should it get to that, I can imagine USAF will find a way to shift some "flown only on Sundays" models to non-US approved purchasers. All the crooks, errr Congressmen, wanted was the A/C to be built so that the bacon would be brought to the home district. Now that the bacon's been consumed they won't give a damn if the frames get shifted to others outside the USA, IMHO.

Galaxy5007 · Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:23 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
but if they want more than two, they will need to order them before the end of 2015. That is when Boeing will officially close the line.

Most of the manufacturers of long lead items are already shut down and closed. Boeing will not be building anymore, regardless of anymore orders. The last C-17 is already done with major joining. It is supposed to take flight in July.

ThePointblank · Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 8):
Most of the manufacturers of long lead items are already shut down and closed. Boeing will not be building anymore, regardless of anymore orders. The last C-17 is already done with major joining. It is supposed to take flight in July.

Once that happens, it gets extremely expensive if one wants to restart production. Never say never, but only if someone pays a lot of money to have production restarted.

And that's why once an aircraft goes out of production, even if the tooling was stored and documents retained, they generally never build the aircraft again. The tooling is at most useful for doing large repair or overhaul work after that.

FlyingSicilian · Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:12 am

if I may hijack this thread

and ask the C-17 gurus,

what is the egg-shaped addition to the British C-17
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../c/cf/RAF_RAAF_USAF_C-17s_2007.jpg
just aft of the fore door with a circle-type port in the above photo (it seems there is a looking glass or some kind of small sensor to the left of the door as well)

Just curious.
FS

rwessel · Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:19 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 10):
what is the egg-shaped addition to the British C-17
AF_USAF_C-17s_2007.jpg" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../c/cf/RAF_RAAF_USAF_C-17s_2007.jpg
just aft of the fore door with a circle-type port in the above photo (it seems there is a looking glass or some kind of small sensor to the left of the door as well)

I think both of those are part of LAIRCM, a missile defense system. It's on some USAF C-17s as well.

Legs · Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:48 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 11):
LAIRCM

Yep, thats where a turret can be fitted, but isnt in this case.

ThePointblank · Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting legs (Reply 12):
Yep, thats where a turret can be fitted, but isnt in this case.

Issue has been production of LAIRCM; lots of demand, not enough production. As earlier production C-17's cycle through for depot overhauls, they will be fitted with LAIRCM in due time.

bunumuring · Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:52 pm

Hi all,

I believe that the RAAF will indeed take four whitetails, and not two. However, there has been the suggestion made to me by an RAAF pilot that the second pair will indeed be 'ANZACS', operated jointly with NZ. This may explain the jockeying of positions by nations anxious to grab some of these last planes and NZ's apparent interest in them.

I had heard also, about a year ago, that Singapore was keen for a pair... But nothing of it lately.

And I still can't believe that Saudi Arabia, Japan and Israel didn't order some! They seem to be natural customers to me of such a plane.

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Galaxy5007 · Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 13):

Quoting legs (Reply 12):
Yep, thats where a turret can be fitted, but isnt in this case.

Issue has been production of LAIRCM; lots of demand, not enough production. As earlier production C-17's cycle through for depot overhauls, they will be fitted with LAIRCM in due time

Quoting rwessel (Reply 11):

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 10):
what is the egg-shaped addition to the British C-17
AF_USAF_C-17s_2007.jpg" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../c/cf/RAF_RAAF_USAF_C-17s_2007.jpg
just aft of the fore door with a circle-type port in the above photo (it seems there is a looking glass or some kind of small sensor to the left of the door as well)

I think both of those are part of LAIRCM, a missile defense system. It's on some USAF C-17s as well.

The majority of the C-17 fleet has had LAIRCM installed at this point. Yes there was some issues with demand and there was even a two year dry spell of no installations, but those issues have been resolved. The FMS jets that have had it installed were missing turrents for a while, but have been installed since then. I believe there is only around 20 USAF C-17s that still don't have LAIRCM installed. They have been shuffling them through the mod at a pretty good rate at both Kelly and WR.

Kiwirob · Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 14):
Japan and Israel didn't order some!

Japan is building their own, as for Israel the country is so small it's not worth it, nor do they really care about events outside Israel which don't directly concern them, they are not nice global players who would get involved with disaster relief like NZ and Aussie.

[Edited 2015-03-03 11:14:43]

bikerthai · Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 14):
Israel didn't order some!

I can see why Israel don't need the C-17. They do deploy beyond their border much. Within the border, the C-130 would be adequate.

bt

cargotanker · Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:40 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
they are not nice global players who would get involved with disaster relief like NZ and Aussie.

I'm sure this could devolve into quite a side thread, but I think almost all of Israel's defense dollars are spent on national survival, things like Iron Dome missile defense. Has New Zealand had a few thousand missiles launched at it in the last decade or so? Any suicide bombers? Any nations vowing to destroy New Zealand with nuclear weapons? Instead of comparing Israel to a soft and weak country like New Zealand you should compare it to another country that has fought 4 wars for national survival in the last hundred years and currently faces nuclear annihilation. Oh, you can't find any countries like that? Israel is the only one?

Also, your post is very uninformed. A quick google search of "Israeli Humanitarian Aid" returns quite a few examples of Israel assisting other countries with humanitarian aid. Places like Sri Lanka, Peru, Sudan, Haiti, Philippines, Burma, Georgia, Kenya, Somalia.

Maybe Israel understands that humanitarian aid is about a lot more than showing up with a flashy airplane.

Sorry to bust your prejudices.

INFINITI329 · Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 15):
USAF C-17s that still don't have LAIRCM installed.

How long does an install take? Can squadrons do this or do they have to go to a depot?

JohnM · Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:53 pm

LAIRCM is a pretty extensive mod. It requires a trip to a mod center to accomplish. Most TCTOs that are done by Maint Squadrons now are limited. There is a man hour limit that keeps the home station maintainers doing only small mods. The manning of today does not allow for lengthy TCTOs to be done. In the past huge TCTOs were done at home station by organic maintainers, but not much any more. A large mod can be done by contract field teams. Sometimes depot will do some, but they are limited by man hours also.

Kiwirob · Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:24 am

Quoting cargotanker (Reply 18):
Any nations vowing to destroy New Zealand with nuclear weapons?

There aren't any nations vowing to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons either.

Quoting cargotanker (Reply 18):
Maybe Israel understands that humanitarian aid is about a lot more than showing up with a flashy airplane.

On a per capita and total funding basis New Zealand provides significanlty more aid that Israel does. NZ is a good global citizen, Israel not so much.

I see a reason for NZ to operate C17's (or more likely A400's) I struggle with Israel needing them. If you don't like my opinion fine, I can live with that.

bikerthai · Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):

I see a reason for NZ to operate C17's (or more likely A400's) I struggle with Israel needing them.

Back to the topic at hand though. Operating C-17 for humanitarian reason really only needed for heavy equipment and the ability to get equipment into UN-improved facilities. If you don't have heavy equipment to deliver, it is easier and cheaper to get you crew and gear thru charter service. Besides I suppose if Israel need the service of a C-17 for humanitarian relief, all they have to do is call Washington D.C. and I'm sure the US Air force would gladly accommodate.

bt

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
On a per capita and total funding basis New Zealand provides significanlty more aid that Israel does.

You know you've achieved noteworthy status when you can sell apples to Washington State

bt

bunumuring · Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:40 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
Japan is building their own, as for Israel the country is so small it's not worth it, nor do they really care about events outside Israel which don't directly concern them, they are not nice global players who would get involved with disaster relief like NZ and Aussie.

Ah yes, but I mean over the past decade or so... Japan may be building it's own mini-me C-17 now, but look how long the other nations have flown theirs. Look at how Australia immediately deployed some c-17s with specific aid to Japan after the tsunami and then let the Japanese 'use' them for a short time for their own predetermined humanitarian aid program. Likewise, I could imagine Israel using a couple to quickly move large 'things' around the nation, using desert strips if necessary. The C-17s revolutionized Australia's transporting capability and mission profile after being C-130 based like Israel's is now. I just think they would have been a great addition (albeit admittedly a 'luxury') for both nations.

And for what it's worth, I really hope Australia and NZ do jointly purchase and operate a C-17 or two for humanitarian aid.... And name the plane(s) 'The Spirit of ANZAC'...

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Alfons · Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22):

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):

I see a reason for NZ to operate C17's (or more likely A400's) I struggle with Israel needing them.

I've seen a documentary of NZ lately in the german TV. So beautiful and peacefully. High mountains capped with snow, and 100 miles on the east and west, the beach. And inbetween, sheeps. A place to die for. You could fly C-17's with flowers painted all over, would look great, and fit.

Alfons

Kiwirob · Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:30 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 23):
Likewise, I could imagine Israel using a couple to quickly move large 'things' around the nation, using desert strips if necessary.

You realise how small Israel is right, you could probably move big and heavy stuff just as quickly and efficiently on a truck.

bunumuring · Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 25):
You realise how small Israel is right, you could probably move big and heavy stuff just as quickly and efficiently on a truck.

Lol, yes, you are right. It is a small country, with(I believe) relatively good roads.
As to NZ painting C-17s with flowers... I would suggest an 'all-blacks' scheme on one and sheep on the other... Or alternatively, a dragon along one side and scenes from LOTR along the other... Of course, Maori designs would be great too, and definitely more PC!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

aklrno · Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22):
You know you've achieved noteworthy status when you can sell apples to Washington State

You do understand that apples are a seasonal crop, picked in late summer and early fall? If you want fresh apples in the spring and early summer you get them from the opposite hemisphere. Washington apples can be found in New Zealand now, but they will be replaced by New Zealand fresh picked apples soon. Maybe already.

Back on topic, I can't see how RNZAF can afford to buy C-17s. I wonder if they can land at many of the small South Pacific airports that the NZ army often flies to. I would think some newer C-130s would be more appropriate.

Kiwirob · Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting aklrno (Reply 27):
Back on topic, I can't see how RNZAF can afford to buy C-17s. I wonder if they can land at many of the small South Pacific airports that the NZ army often flies to. I would think some newer C-130s would be more appropriate.

I think we can afford them, it's more a case of do we really want or need them. It's been mentioned that if C-17's are purchased we would also buy C-27's or the like. I don't for one minute think we will purchase more C130's, it's an old design, it's also too small, NZ wants to be able to transport an NZLAV or NH90, they can't do this in a C130, they can in an A400 or C17.

kc135topboom · Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:57 pm

The RNZAF would also use any C-17, KC-390, or A-400M purchase to replace all 5 C-130Hs and 2 B-757s

The RNZAF is a shell of its former self, having just a total of 28 fixed wing aircraft. Only the 6 P-3K2s could be considered as combat aircraft, the rest being trainers and cargo/transports. The have no fighter, attack, or bomber aircraft. The RNZAF also flies 34 helicopters of various models on various missions.

Kiwirob · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:12 am

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 22):
You know you've achieved noteworthy status when you can sell apples to Washington State

New Zealand supplies about 10% of the worlds export apples.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
The have no fighter, attack, or bomber aircraft.

To be frank we don't need them.

cargotanker · Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:17 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
The RNZAF is a shell of its former self, having just a total of 28 fixed wing aircraft.

But they're such good "global citizens"

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 30):
They have no fighter, attack, or bomber aircraft.

To be frank we don't need them.

You don't, if you're a small geographically isolated country that has larger, better nations nearby that will protect you. Most countries don't enjoy such advantages.

Kiwirob · Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting cargotanker (Reply 31):
Most countries don't enjoy such advantages.

There are a number of countries in Europe which also enjoy the same advantages. Belgium, Ireland, immediately spring to mind.

UAE Signs For 2 Additional C-17's

UAE Signs For 2 Additional C-17's

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