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dfwjim1
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Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:20 am

I was just looking at photos of the Iranian Air Force in the photo database and a couple of questions came to mind:

1). In the event of an attack by Israel and/or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities would Iran's fleet of F-14s, F-4s and
F-5s be able to hold their own against the attacking aircraft?

2). How does Iran manage to keep their U.S. made warplanes flying and combat ready?

Thanks for the info.
 
Ozair
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:32 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
1). In the event of an attack by Israel and/or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities would Iran's fleet of F-14s, F-4s and
F-5s be able to hold their own against the attacking aircraft?

They would try but I doubt they would be effective. Not enough flight hours, poorly maintained equipment and little motivation to die are probably the top three reasons.

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
2). How does Iran manage to keep their U.S. made warplanes flying and combat ready?
The United States has foiled a plot to export F-5 fighter jet engines and parts to Iran to help the Iranians upgrade their depleted air force. Two arms dealers who live in France are behind the plot. One of them, a Belgian national was arrested on Friday in New York. The other, an Iranian national is still at large.
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com.au/...ls-plot-to-export-fighter-jet.html

An Israeli man was arrested at Ben-Gurion Airport Monday and is expected to be extradited to the US where he has been charged with selling arms — including spare parts for fighter jets — to Iran.

Eli Cohen, 64, was arrested by Israeli forces at the request of the US while attempting to flee the country. The Department of Special International Affairs filed a request with the Jerusalem Magistrate’s Court Monday to extend his remand, to grant the US more time to formally file for extradition. The court approved a two-day extension on Cohen’s arrest on Monday afternoon.

Cohen was indicted last week in a federal court in Connecticut for illegally exporting spare parts for F-4 and F-14 combat aircraft to Iran, illegally moving military equipment out of the US, and money laundering.


http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli...or-allegedly-selling-arms-to-iran/
 
ThePointblank
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:37 am

I would never discount the capabilities of the Iranians. Pre-revolution, a lot of resources were spent on developing Iran's ability to overhaul and maintain their Air Force domestically. While the Revolution, and the subsequent sanctions have put a damper on their capabilities, they still have a lot of capability to maintain their aircraft domestically.
 
tommy1808
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:00 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
1). In the event of an attack by Israel and/or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities would Iran's fleet of F-14s, F-4s and
F-5s be able to hold their own against the attacking aircraft?

Simple answer: no.
Long answer: it depends on what kind of attack it is and how you define "hold their own". We can be sure that Iran is aware of its equipment shortcomings and will try to come up with tactics to address that which can work to some degree (see Vietnam). Their presence would make the job more demanding, more dangerous and more expensive, but ultimately i don´t think they´d have a chance to stop bombs from dropping on their intended targets, but they may buy time to disperse important material and personnel. The advantage they do have is their rather mountainous terrain, which can somewhat counter AWACS (just like the Austrian AF go the drop on AWACS supported F-16s in their decades old Drakens). That they will be getting their S300 now will also help.

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bennett123
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:23 am

Also do not forgot the effect on morale and fighting spirit when the war comes to their country.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:53 am

And don't forget ground based stuff. IIRC Russia is going to ship them the S-400s they bought before the last major sanctions. Put some of those around facilities likely to be bombed and you'll probably lose a jet or two or have to commit a very obviously large force.

Anyways, the chance of Iran being attacked is less likely that the US complaining to Saudi about their human rights record. It just isn't worth it unless you're a war hawk.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:07 am

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 5):
Anyways, the chance of Iran being attacked is less likely that the US complaining to Saudi about their human rights record. It just isn't worth it unless you're a war hawk.

I wouldn't discount Israel going it alone, without US sanction.
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting ZaphodHarkonnen (Reply 5):

And don't forget ground based stuff. IIRC Russia is going to ship them the S-400s they bought before the last major sanctions.

It'll probably be the SAM threat that makes it interesting. Point of clarity, the Russians are going to send S-300s, not 400s. The ones built before sanctions have all been scrapped in Russia, they will supply the latest builds instead.
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ThePointblank
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Sat May 02, 2015 6:28 am

Quoting spacepope (Reply 7):
It'll probably be the SAM threat that makes it interesting. Point of clarity, the Russians are going to send S-300s, not 400s. The ones built before sanctions have all been scrapped in Russia, they will supply the latest builds instead.

Those S-300's will be an absolute nightmare once the Iranians get a hold of them. RUSI did an article talking about the implications of the Iranians getting a hold of S-300's, and the gist of it is, they could close down practically every major air corridor over the Gulf, and the systems, if strategically placed, will have enough range to cover Kuwait and a good portion of the UAE, including two airbases, plus Dubai:

http://www.rusi.org/publications/def...s/ref:A554385A7EAF10/#.VURtTZN5hdx
 
Alfons
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Sat May 02, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 8):
they could close down practically every major air corridor over the Gulf, and the systems, if strategically placed, will have enough range to cover Kuwait and a good portion of the UAE, including two airbases, plus Dubai:

if they are such a nightmare, then they probably won't arrive at their destination intact. They are expendable military materials anyway...
 
11Bravo
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Sat May 02, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 8):
Those S-300's will be an absolute nightmare once the Iranians get a hold of them.

I think you over-estimate the threat and effect of these systems. The S-300 is very dangerous when operated by well trained crews in an environment with minimal SEAD threats. If the US were to mount a comprehensive attack on Iran's air defense system, I wouldn't care to be anywhere near the S-300 radars and C3 centers when they were turned on. I'm not saying these systems are not a threat, they clearly are given the right circumstances, but the US and Israeli SEAD capabilities are very daunting. Hopefully we won't have to find out.
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LMP737
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Sun May 03, 2015 6:14 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
1). In the event of an attack by Israel and/or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities would Iran's fleet of F-14s, F-4s and
F-5s be able to hold their own against the attacking aircraft?

Never discount a potential foe. With that said the F-5 has no BVR capability so you can probably discount them. While the F-14 in it's day was a formidable opponent Iran's fleet of them are a bit long in the tooth. I question how mission capable the AWG-9 on their birds are. And even if they are mission capable the AWG-9 always had a problem with ground clutter and they have no AIM-54 in inventory anymore.

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
2). How does Iran manage to keep their U.S. made warplanes flying and combat ready?

Along with getting back channel parts along locally produced parts they probably fly aircraft that would be sitting in the hangar any where else.
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spudh
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
I was just looking at photos of the Iranian Air Force in the photo database and a couple of questions came to mind:

1). In the event of an attack by Israel and/or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities would Iran's fleet of F-14s, F-4s and
F-5s be able to hold their own against the attacking aircraft?


Everyone seems to forget that they have a lot of experience of air combat from the Iran-Iraq war. Yes they almost wiped out their capability to fight in the post revolution purges but by the end of the Iran-Iraq war they had re-instated many of the Shahs officer corp (at least those that were not killed) and had their western equipment still in some degree of combat capability right up to the end of the war. At one stage they had over 20 Tomcats operational (25% of the fleet) at a time when the US had close on 50% of their fleet grounded. (albeit a grounded USN F-14 was probably still in a higher state of combat readiness than an operational IRAF F-14)

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):



2). How does Iran manage to keep their U.S. made warplanes flying and combat ready?

They ran huge drives in the universities and through industry (I think they even called them Jihads) to learn how to manufacture spares for their US fighters. I think by the end of the war they were pretty self sufficient with the F-5, even going on to develop that twin tailed technology demonstrator.

I think some of their biggest issues with the F-4 were tyres.

On the F-14 they couldn't get batteries for the AIM-54 and those they didn't use died on the shelf but they claimed many kills for the phoenix.

They tried replacing the AIM-54 with a russian SAM ( I have a photo in a book somewhere from the test programme but don't know if it ever succeeded.

The AWG-9 I believe was only kept operational through canabalising dead F-14's.
Really don't know how they dealt with the TF-30's shredding themselves. US attrition related to the TF-30 was pushing 15% (including flat spins) but maybe they flew them harder.

I thought that the F-14's would all be dead by now but I've been looking at Khatami airport on Google Earth over the years and on the latest aerial shots from Bing and Google there are at least 10 F-14's still being moved around the place anyway.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Iranian Air Force Questions

Thu May 07, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
1). In the event of an attack by Israel and/or the United States on Iran's nuclear facilities would Iran's fleet of F-14s, F-4s and
F-5s be able to hold their own against the attacking aircraft?

It'd be over pretty quickly if it was a F/A-18 or F-22 against one of these. However, if it was an F-35....  

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