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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:27 am

zanl188 wrote:
Everything is stacked down in Boca Chica. I’d post a pix if I could.


It was. It's unstacked again. They never did get the gap all the way closed. It looks like a little adjusting is in order.

Image
 
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ITMercure
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:24 am

That thing sure looks like it comes from a 1949 SF comic book !!!
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:21 am

ITMercure wrote:
That thing sure looks like it comes from a 1949 SF comic book !!!


Von Braun & Ley will be doing the graveyard happy dance when this thing flies!
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parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:31 am

Confused! What's the point of stacking it all together when they haven't put anything. -like fuel tanks for instance - in it yet.Or is it ( as they have found out) simply for fit n' finish purposes and then it will be disassembled for fitting out?
But either way Buck Rogers eat your heart out ( or Dan Dare if you are British)!
Gotta take your hat off to this fella ,he keeps us all guessing and amused.But no doubt about it he is in one hell of a rush for reasons best known to himself.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:12 pm

It does look just bit of oh so hokey doesn't it? :-) It reminds me of that old Andy Griffith show "Salvage 1"
Image

But I gotta say, it also reminds me of the early days of flight when barn mechanics would cobble together planes just based on basic plans and math and their intuition and then fly them (or try to).

Of course I say "reminds me of" but it of course really isn't, it is a billion dollar task undertaken by thousands of degree'd engineers and highly skilled technicians etc.

Still it is showing that it is not only a job to be done by overly cautious, max profit demanding, military industrial complex embedded corporations.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:40 am

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-m ... e-by-june/

My God it's finished already and now Elon states the full sized one could be ready in June! Beyond belief really.
He is in a serious ( Starlink/SLS) rush!
And the confusion! Some have spotted full diameter 9 mtr tanks being welded on site -yet the craft has been welded shut.Others ( logically) believe they will 'simply' use F9 tanks and insert them from underneath.These engines may simply be placeholders.Either way it will need fuel! And clearly the main fuel storage tanks are on site.
Feb/March 'hop' really is looking possible.Hope nothing goes wrong as no time margin for error.
 
Trololzilla
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Successful launch of Iridium NEXT-8, the final Iridium launch. Another successful droneship landing, as well.
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:35 pm

Yes, enjoyed the show;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VshdafZvwrg

1st stage previously used last September, just under two years since the first of eight Iridium launches.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:32 pm

By the way, seven weeks ago the hopper looked like this. The speed with which these guy threw this beast together is unreal.

Image
Image
 
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ITMercure
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:03 pm

Meanwhile, SpaceX just announced they will furlough 600 people (10% of their workforce)...
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:37 pm

ITMercure wrote:
Meanwhile, SpaceX just announced they will furlough 600 people (10% of their workforce)...


Fire, not furlough. https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01 ... r-company/
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:23 pm

As always thanks Nomadd.I guess internal installation next.It looks like those rockets bells are placeholders but could be 110% wrong of course.

10% of the workforce -600 people. Mmmm big cut.Mind you if F9's B5's are economic to refurb multiple times then they just won't need the new build capacity.i guess Jeff B can always hire them when he's finished in court!
 
aviationaware
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:30 am

After having seen it many times and knowing how it works, it still fills me with awe and disbelief how they can land a rocket from space on what's basically no more than glorified helipad.

What also fills me with disbelief is how they can routinely manage such an awe inspiring feat yet can't seem to be able to get a stable camera connection to work. There must be ways.
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:27 pm

aviationaware wrote:
After having seen it many times and knowing how it works, it still fills me with awe and disbelief how they can land a rocket from space on what's basically no more than glorified helipad.

What also fills me with disbelief is how they can routinely manage such an awe inspiring feat yet can't seem to be able to get a stable camera connection to work. There must be ways.


Not a lot you can do about the blast of those rockets on landing affecting the signals from the camera on the drone ship.
It only affects the signal briefly, within seconds it is restored and the 1st stage can be seen on deck.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:46 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 00-million

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/11/1817 ... t-starship

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/18/1787 ... rew-dragon

A lot of interesting things going on at Spacex right now.
Obviously the break neck speed of the Starship hopper.Some have said that this us tied in with the recent round of additional funding,but that's pure speculation.
However the dropping of Goldman Sachs to handle it was a complete surprise.First it was for $500m then $750 then speculated at the end $250.As the terms of the loan were onerous.Who can exactly say as most is shrouded in secrecy.But Bloomberg and others have done some math on the company.
Whilst as J Shotwell always says-it is profitable but exactly by how much is v hard to say.Some have done fag packet calculations on income based on 20-24 ( absolute max) commercial flights per year.If they charge rough fully $60 m a flight they suggest that perhaps half ( max) is profit.So you get a number.Its nice but not such that you can build a Starlink and BFR programme on it.Which we know as Elon is constantly having to go to Wall Street for more loan money.
Note whether there really are a solid 24 commercial mission requirements ( they are never going to win all launches or anything like -govt's) is not proven either -and there is big competition on the horizon...

So perhaps it's no surprise that 10% of the staff (600+ people) are going to be made redundant.It clearly means profit margins have to be improved to satisfy investors.
On top of that 7 very senior members of the Starlink senior management were fired just a few months ago as progress was not quick enough.Again that sends its own message about just what is critical.It all ties in with the hopper accelerated programme imho.
It's also worth reading exactly how Starlink is supposed to work.It could but it's ( laser broad band comm's between low earth sats) totally new and unproven.They have two space competitors and would be stupid to think the ground based giants of fibre optics will just pack up and go home.

The final. Article linked above I thought was interesting.Space tourism. This could be a very good way to increase gross income and profit imho ( and the Verge).
Elon hasn't mentioned a word about tourism. - and rightly so as the Dragon space capsule is not certified -yet.NASA never needed a 7 man capsule.4 was their request/demand.Spacex went for 7.At a totally rough number.If you charge $60m for a launch and you put in 6 tourists and one trained astronaut - at $10m a pop ,yup you get your $60m income and $30m profit.Of course it's far far more complicated than that!

But imho these 10 min parabolic high altitude rocket plane shots are a joke for $250k a pop. Now an hour circling the planet.Thats real space real astronaut stuff.And real time to take it all in.There are imho plenty of people who would willingly pay a load more than $10 m to really spend time in real orbiting space.
Don't think we will see/hear about it this year.Needs to get full NASA approval and full success.But after that? I can see that such a business could guarantee a min of 24 launches per year going forwards with any shortfall filled with these tourist flights.
Mind you it's still not nearly enough for BFR fullbdevelopment ( even Elon recognises the costs) but it could guarantee one source of income from the F9 programme.
Makes you wonder.If he really wanted loads of money quickly -say 2020/1 he could demerge the two/three projects into 2/3companies.SpacexFalcon and SpacexStarship and perhaps SpacexStarlink in the future.
The former simply becoming a commercial launch company.Its use for Mars will be over.Could be worth a load of money considering the profitability it could generate.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:13 pm

aviationaware wrote:
What also fills me with disbelief is how they can routinely manage such an awe inspiring feat yet can't seem to be able to get a stable camera connection to work. There must be ways.


I once inquired about a ship-based satellite link. As it turns out, the antenna accuracy required to maintain full bandwidth is ridiculously tight. We're talking about 1 degree, give or take. And even in optimal conditions, the bandwidth is not that high and given the complex antenna stabilization and aiming system required, the cost / kbps is ridiculously high.

It's not hard to see why the vibration caused by a massive landing rocket would be enough to overwhelm a stabilization system that's designed to cope with rough seas at most.

I suppose they could harden the whole thing and send the data via a relay ship nearby, but how much money do they want to spend on providing us with a few seconds of video that's of little operational use anyway?

What bothers me is that whereas the video link stops, the footage is recorded on the ship anyway. Yet they don't seem to bother to publish the landing videos afterwards. Unless I missed it.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:45 am

Francoflier wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
What also fills me with disbelief is how they can routinely manage such an awe inspiring feat yet can't seem to be able to get a stable camera connection to work. There must be ways.


I once inquired about a ship-based satellite link. As it turns out, the antenna accuracy required to maintain full bandwidth is ridiculously tight. We're talking about 1 degree, give or take. And even in optimal conditions, the bandwidth is not that high and given the complex antenna stabilization and aiming system required, the cost / kbps is ridiculously high.

It's not hard to see why the vibration caused by a massive landing rocket would be enough to overwhelm a stabilization system that's designed to cope with rough seas at most.

I suppose they could harden the whole thing and send the data via a relay ship nearby, but how much money do they want to spend on providing us with a few seconds of video that's of little operational use anyway?

What bothers me is that whereas the video link stops, the footage is recorded on the ship anyway. Yet they don't seem to bother to publish the landing videos afterwards. Unless I missed it.

The problem is that they insist on using crappy Intellian ku band antennas. We finally got rid of ours and got SeaTels, which can handle ten times the vibration.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:48 am

Nomadd wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
What also fills me with disbelief is how they can routinely manage such an awe inspiring feat yet can't seem to be able to get a stable camera connection to work. There must be ways.


I once inquired about a ship-based satellite link. As it turns out, the antenna accuracy required to maintain full bandwidth is ridiculously tight. We're talking about 1 degree, give or take. And even in optimal conditions, the bandwidth is not that high and given the complex antenna stabilization and aiming system required, the cost / kbps is ridiculously high.

It's not hard to see why the vibration caused by a massive landing rocket would be enough to overwhelm a stabilization system that's designed to cope with rough seas at most.

I suppose they could harden the whole thing and send the data via a relay ship nearby, but how much money do they want to spend on providing us with a few seconds of video that's of little operational use anyway?

What bothers me is that whereas the video link stops, the footage is recorded on the ship anyway. Yet they don't seem to bother to publish the landing videos afterwards. Unless I missed it.

The problem is that they insist on using crappy Intellian ku band antennas. We finally got rid of ours and got SeaTels, which can handle ten times the vibration.


I'm not sure what system you looked at, but the stabilized ku band antennas use the same sat circuits you'd use on land. a 1 meter antenna usually brings in 3mbs. The ridiculously expensive ones are usually S band Inmarsat type that are priced at dollars per megabyte.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:04 pm

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-10-per ... -launches/

Teslerati's take on the 10% (600+) redundancies.For a website that loves Spacex ( and why not) there are some pretty harsh words on the way they went about it.
Equally important are the questions being asked by investors.It appears (Bloomberg) that Spacex is simply not profitable at the moment.
This move would ensure b/e or small profit.
Of course many might say that this is not the point right now.But...
They are now nearly launching commercially as many as the market will bear (20PA) and increasingly these are Flight proven.So the theory of refurbishment should be playing out about now,
Refurbing has only really been tried once- The Shuttle - and of course that didn't work out.But times have changed.But no one has any idea on refurb' costs at Spacex.
From an investors POV the 'prize' must (now) be Starlink.As 'money men' they really won't be the slightest bit interested in 'going to Mars' - no obvious ROI there.So the Starship 'pitch' 'must' be based on a commercial return.Are they thinking that this could be done ( but slower) using F9's? Who knows.Its not as if anyone else has a faster way of getting multi sat's up there fast.
As stated above one could float SpacexF9/FH on the market and raise a load of capital.But not The BFR project unless it's intrinsicly linked to Starlink.
Interesting times.He will need a load of wonga from somewhere pretty soon.The guesstimate cost of Heavy lift/Starship development is (Elon) approx $5billion.....
 
JHwk
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:53 pm

parapente wrote:
Teslerati's take on the 10% (600+) redundancies.For a website that loves Spacex ( and why not) there are some pretty harsh words on the way they went about it.

Yeah, sounds to me like a few senior people in HR needed to go, so they went for a pretty soulless approach. SpaceX has a lot of eyes and a lot of pressure on them to succeed, and a couple delayed launches can easily kill the year’s profit potential and damage investor confidence.

Was 2020 the year they expected a lull in launches?
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:42 pm

JHwk wrote:
parapente wrote:
Teslerati's take on the 10% (600+) redundancies.For a website that loves Spacex ( and why not) there are some pretty harsh words on the way they went about it.

Yeah, sounds to me like a few senior people in HR needed to go, so they went for a pretty soulless approach. SpaceX has a lot of eyes and a lot of pressure on them to succeed, and a couple delayed launches can easily kill the year’s profit potential and damage investor confidence.

Was 2020 the year they expected a lull in launches?


The layoffs were absolutely not handled well. The HR team in charge of it should be dismissed as well. They lost 12-24 hours of productivity and lost some mind share from all of their employees. As much as everyone thinks it may have been a culling of the weakest, there were probably whole departments with very good resources let go.

At least they all got 2 months severance in California. not sure about Texas or Florida.

Maybe with some money and lending for the BFR/Starship they can get some back and recruit more talent.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:22 pm

The saved money is small fry.fact.Its more about a guaranteed return on capital.Showing what they are prepared to do to get it.The money men always get what they want and he needs them -- badly.
Hopefully they will. all be ok ,the market is hot for their talent right now.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:45 am

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starsh ... ests-near/

The speed at which 'things change' at Spacex is really defies gravity.Wake up this morning to discover the whole concept of the rocket factory in the Port of LA has been simply 'dropped'.Going to move production to Texas.Watchout Nomadd they are coming big time.So I guess the giant mandrill is going to be shipped via barge to Boa.As the 'Super Heavy is to be built there.Or who knows scrapped altogether and make it out of stainless steel as well ( only kidding).
Even yesterday there was news.They has disassembled the hopper rocket and were busy removing the (dummy?) engines.Going to add tanks and real engines when they've been test fired ( next week?).
Timelines for the 'real thing' Starship still remain incredibly soon -months.
Don't get it myself,but enjoying the ride it's boys own comics come to life.
What NASA must think - compared to SLS God knows.Its takes a decade to reuse something that already existed a decade before that! They should of course be totally embarrassed but sadly you know I don't think they are. ( probably angry that Spacex shows them up for what they are).Oh then there is always 'one further delay' ( with apologies to S Jobs) -whilst Boeing and Lockheed stuff more taxpayers bills into their pockets!
Still I'm not paying so not my problem,I stuff money into Brussels pockets instead!
 
ThePointblank
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:03 am

parapente wrote:
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-super-heavy-production-texas-transplant-hop-tests-near/

The speed at which 'things change' at Spacex is really defies gravity.Wake up this morning to discover the whole concept of the rocket factory in the Port of LA has been simply 'dropped'.Going to move production to Texas.Watchout Nomadd they are coming big time.So I guess the giant mandrill is going to be shipped via barge to Boa.As the 'Super Heavy is to be built there.Or who knows scrapped altogether and make it out of stainless steel as well ( only kidding).
Even yesterday there was news.They has disassembled the hopper rocket and were busy removing the (dummy?) engines.Going to add tanks and real engines when they've been test fired ( next week?).
Timelines for the 'real thing' Starship still remain incredibly soon -months.
Don't get it myself,but enjoying the ride it's boys own comics come to life.
What NASA must think - compared to SLS God knows.Its takes a decade to reuse something that already existed a decade before that! They should of course be totally embarrassed but sadly you know I don't think they are. ( probably angry that Spacex shows them up for what they are).Oh then there is always 'one further delay' ( with apologies to S Jobs) -whilst Boeing and Lockheed stuff more taxpayers bills into their pockets!
Still I'm not paying so not my problem,I stuff money into Brussels pockets instead!

Elon Musk is saying the reporting is incorrect:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1085679367374524417

Elon Musk
‏Verified account @elonmusk
Replying to @Teslarati

The source info is incorrect. Starship & Raptor development is being done out of our HQ in Hawthorne, CA. We are building the Starship prototypes locally at our launch site in Texas, as their size makes them very difficult to transport.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:09 am

parapente wrote:
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-super-heavy-production-texas-transplant-hop-tests-near/

The speed at which 'things change' at Spacex is really defies gravity.Wake up this morning to discover the whole concept of the rocket factory in the Port of LA has been simply 'dropped'.Going to move production to Texas.Watchout Nomadd they are coming big time.So I guess the giant mandrill is going to be shipped via barge to Boa.As the 'Super Heavy is to be built there.Or who knows scrapped altogether and make it out of stainless steel as well ( only kidding).
Even yesterday there was news.They has disassembled the hopper rocket and were busy removing the (dummy?) engines.Going to add tanks and real engines when they've been test fired ( next week?).
Timelines for the 'real thing' Starship still remain incredibly soon -months.
Don't get it myself,but enjoying the ride it's boys own comics come to life.
What NASA must think - compared to SLS God knows.Its takes a decade to reuse something that already existed a decade before that! They should of course be totally embarrassed but sadly you know I don't think they are. ( probably angry that Spacex shows them up for what they are).Oh then there is always 'one further delay' ( with apologies to S Jobs) -whilst Boeing and Lockheed stuff more taxpayers bills into their pockets!
Still I'm not paying so not my problem,I stuff money into Brussels pockets instead!



The Raptor engines that are currently in aren't dummy but were earlier development models. Probably fitted for dimension checks and PR.

As for NASA the problem there is their money comes from the US Congress with so many requirements it's a mess. Now it would've probably taken NASA longer than SpaceX but that would be more of an organisational culture when it comes to safety. But the bigger issue slowing down NASA is the way the US government has acted for so long. It's something that can be fixed but qould require some hefty cultural changes in the US and especially at the leadership levels.

In fact you can look at the ESA and Arianespace who aren't going for massive reusability in the Ariane VI but that's for a specific set of requirements that come from the investors (governments). Arianespace's primary reason for existing is to maintain Europe's independent access to space no matter what happens with current allies like the US. So the cost equations start looking very different.

Anyways, SpaceX is gambling on this. Most any other company leadership would probably at least take a breather for a year or two once cornering the market like they did. However this is an argument to me why engineers/dreamers should be in the leadership role. They keep pushing companies to new heights while the MBA leaderships squeeze the company for funds for investors. Though in the case of SpaceX the company was smart and has someone very capable handling the day to day operations. I honestly believe if it wasn't for the leadership of Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX would've burnt out years ago now. She's managed to focus the company on having a revenue stream before going onto the crazy next thing that Musk wants to try yesterday.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:16 pm

I agree that Gwynn Shotwell deserves a medal! She definitely keeps the company on track - but also backs Elon's dreams.Hell of a balancing act imho!
I aslso read Elon's correction (later).But the discussion forums are all confused about one thing.If 'build' is not at POLA then where and indeed how?
Yes it makes sense to keep development at Hawthorne as Elon stated.This is where all the expertise is both for engines and rockets.Its also where their metal foundry is.And of course the Starship is now going to be made primarily of metal as is Falcon.So all the right tooling.

But from what I have read in the discussion forums you could never transport a Starship let alone the even larger 'super heavy' booster.

So if they are not constructing at Port of LA and not at Hawthorne then where.Miami was dismissed as - as far as anybody knows the BFR is not ( ever?) flying fron Canaveral.
That only leaves Boca.But right now there is no factory there or anything like it ( think of their stated timelines).So everybody seems somewhat confused!
Could they make it in 'parts' in Hawthorne an 'assemble' in Boca a little like they have just done? I did see an aerial photo of additional Spacex land a mile or so away that was being levelled-perhaps that's the place.

Spacex is definitely looking to streamline operations extensively,perhaps money is getting tight?
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:56 pm

SpaceX is a business that needs to make money, unlike some companies with infinite money available from sales of overpriced stock.
Boca chica is coming along. The pad is starting to look like something more than a dirt pile. Those are 13,000 gallon LNG tanks. They look a lot bigger when they're not sitting next to 95,000 and 80,000 gallon LOX and Methane tanks.
The ship is apart again and the engines are removed. They're getting ready to put the upper fuel bulkhead on and build the bottom and middle bulkheads from beneath. The "engines" were pretty much the part that attaches to the thrust structure and a sea level cone with a mock-up cone extension for fitting everything together. They didn't want to build around flight engines, which aren't quite ready anyhow.

Image
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:01 pm

Are these various tanks sized for test hopping or the 'real thing'? They look enormous so I imagine it's the latter.BTW do they have to truck/tank in all these various gasses.If so must require a gullet of tankers would have thought.Guess there must also be some massive chilling plant as well.

Saw a drone picture of what looked like a large dround area ( owned by Spacex) about a mile or so down the road that was being levelled.Nomadd have you seen this?
Is this ( if true) the hew assembly area I wonder?
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:35 pm

Those are the little tanks. There are 95,000 and 80,000 gallon LOX and Methane tanks still sitting near the tracking dishes. The ones in the photo are only 13,000 gallon cryo. This is at the launch pad near the beach.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:54 am

Thx Nomadd.Went back to your November picture for the other tanks.Its hard to get an idea of scale but they must be enormous.
Noticed another picture on Teslerati of a FH side booster being transported yesterday.Its easy to see why this is the absolute max one could move by road ( imho).
I guess they will make it clear fairly soon on where the BFR is to be made/assembled.Clearly the engines and systems at Hawthorne which makes sense.As for the 'big bits' will just have to wait and see.

A little tid bit that I found interesting.
Was reading about Lockheed Martin's proposals for Mars which they released about 12 months ago.As those that follow these things will know they see things differently.Their Mars lander would be a smaller craft that shuttles between orbit ( Mother ship/station) and the surface.It has 4 integrated wings/feet/speed ablating fins.Call them what you want.Again the concept is very similar indeed to Spacex Starship -one side -two 'wings' and the associated surface would take all the heat on reentry.Then ( as Spacex) land vertically via rocket motors on the 4 legs.
Now here's the interesting bit.

It states that since this craft is to be used many multiple of times ( a shuttle) the heat shield is to be made of --- metal - and non ablative!
Ever heard that more recently!
Both of them must work closely with NASA.Somewhere along the line there has to have been some crossover of ideas/information.

No doubt about it - at least publicly-Lockheed had realised first that ( at least for Mars work) a metal heat shield was the only way to go.
Spacex has simply extended this idea to cover the much thicker atmosphere of Earth.
Will see if I can find the link.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos