DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:26 pm

DarkKnight5 wrote:
zanl188 wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
Why?


A. The recovery ship has a helo pad. This is not strictly needed for medical evacuation purposes.
B. Depending on the location of the recovery area, it could be days before the recovery ship can return to port.


A. The helo is there for emergencies and probably monitoring the capsule while the boat approaches.
B. The helo is awfully helpful if there is a need to get the crew to shore more quickly than the boat can manage.
C. The article says the preferred strategy is to pick the capsule up using the boat and the helo is for emergencies.

If you think about it, the capsule should float without much risk of sinking as long as it stays sealed. But when you open that door it’s like popping a bubble and all that buoyancy disappears if water gets in. It’s much safer to egress the crew on a dry deck.


Here’s another article that pretty much says it all.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a24735688/spacex-go-searcher-rescue-ship-astronauts/
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:55 pm

DarkKnight5 wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
zanl188 wrote:

A. The recovery ship has a helo pad. This is not strictly needed for medical evacuation purposes.
B. Depending on the location of the recovery area, it could be days before the recovery ship can return to port.


A. The helo is there for emergencies and probably monitoring the capsule while the boat approaches.
B. The helo is awfully helpful if there is a need to get the crew to shore more quickly than the boat can manage.
C. The article says the preferred strategy is to pick the capsule up using the boat and the helo is for emergencies.

If you think about it, the capsule should float without much risk of sinking as long as it stays sealed. But when you open that door it’s like popping a bubble and all that buoyancy disappears if water gets in. It’s much safer to egress the crew on a dry deck.


Here’s another article that pretty much says it all.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a24735688/spacex-go-searcher-rescue-ship-astronauts/


After rereading the thread, I think I misunderstood your first post and it spiraled from there. We probably actually agree on the helo’s purpose.

Unrelated:
Story about SpaceX seeking a $750 million leveraged loan today to fund development no doubt.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spacex-loan/spacex-seeks-750-million-leveraged-loan-idUSKCN1NB2G4
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:07 pm

parapente wrote:
And no doubt a very thorough wash down of the capsule with fresh water (and no doubt more!).
Reusing these babies is going to be quite a breakthrough in economics.One assumes the heat shield will be replaced each time?
Why is it the Russians could always land on land? I assume the greater space available.It must make things so much easier for them.


Soyuz only returns the smallish crew seating area while the "dining room" stays in orbit.
Apollo and now Orion return the full habitat one larger than the other.

Soyuz final landing phase is retro rocket controlled. malfunction and you really get the boot.
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aviationaware
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:14 am

So excited for the unmanned flight test of Crew Dragon in January! Hope it stays on schedule.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:45 am

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-miniat ... elon-musk/

And just we thought we had a handle on what Spacex was doing you get this series of major announcements!
When they achieve so much so quickly it's easy to downplay just how huge these leaps are.Incredible team.

But in a way I am glad they are testing first with a scale BFS.Doesnt sound too Musk like but perhaps even he considers going direct to a full BFS too much of a leap.Anyway he's busy at the moment building the first stage BFR which will keep him busy.

Certainly imho the visual idea of a mini BFS on top of a F9 will look fantastic.Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 am

parapente wrote:
Certainly imho the visual idea of a mini BFS on top of a F9 will look fantastic.Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.


You sure the final BFR sample will not be the size of a battery driven girls friend :-?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:46 pm

WIederling wrote:
parapente wrote:
Certainly imho the visual idea of a mini BFS on top of a F9 will look fantastic.Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.


You sure the final BFR sample will not be the size of a battery driven girls friend :-?

Well he's made flamethrowers so who knows what other side products he will make! :mischievous:

Tugg
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:56 am

parapente wrote:
Sounds as if they are fairly well down the line already.


To be honest I'm not sure.
They wanted to go straight to building the thing, now they're talking extra steps, such as doing a scaled down version, as if to validate the concept. This sounds like more work and more time to me as they'll want to finalize those tests before they freeze the ever-changing design on the BFR/BFS/whatever-they-call-it-this-week, and the start of inevitable delays to the program.
Then again they've always been extremely optimistic with their timelines.

DarkKnight5 wrote:
C. The article says the preferred strategy is to pick the capsule up using the boat and the helo is for emergencies.


I believe this was the strategy for Apollo / Gemini as well. The physicians preferred that they would not make strenuous efforts right after re-entry, especially after a long stint in zero-g and wanted them to stay in the capsule until they got picked up by the ship if it was safe to do so. If they landed too far or if the capsule started taking on water, then they would of course get out of there and get a ride on the chopper. The frogmen were the first ones on the scene and ready to assist, as I suppose will be the case with Dragon / Orion.

This is interesting however as, if memory serves, the longest stint on orbit that ended in a splashdown was done by the Skylab 4 crew who spent close to 2 months up there.
ISS astronauts routinely spend much more time than this up there and they often look a bit 'worse for wear' and require a bit of assistance when they come out of the Soyuz capsules. I wonder whether they'd be able to get out of a floating capsule in a hurry if things went wrong quickly. The chopper would take a few minutes to get there at best.
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:59 am

Francoflier wrote:
To be honest I'm not sure.
They wanted to go straight to building the thing, now they're talking extra steps, such as doing a scaled down version, as if to validate the concept. This sounds like more work and more time to me as they'll want to finalize those tests before they freeze the ever-changing design on the BFR/BFS/whatever-they-call-it-this-week, and the start of inevitable delays to the program.

Well I'll believe that when I see that. They keep doing what they need to do and have tested scaled versions before (grasshopper). And for this development in particular, this is for human rated flight. So can't fault them testing in smaller steps.

Tugg
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parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:06 am

Musk appears to be going direct for the 'real thing' when it comes to the BFR ie first stage.We have even soon first 'carbon barrels' coming off his giant mandril.This is because he is confident with this stage and its engines.However even here he intends ( I believe) to start off with some 'hops'.
The BFS is different.No one has ever tried to do this before really.The space shuttle being the closest thing I guess.This is the veichle that needs to be able to land on Earth and indeed Mars with (many) people on board.
I think this is a very smart way of testing the concept.Particularly the all moving 'drag fins' and indeed the ablative heat shield which are the two critical new pieces of technology.
Shame it won't include the vertical landing part would have been very 'Tin Tin and he would love that! Perhaps he should paint the upper half and fins in cheque red and white!
On a more serious note.
The transfer from the super high AOA scrubbing off supersonic speed to the final engine burn 'tail down' will be quite a tricky and very fast manoeuvre I would have thought.One imagines that this will be tested too even if the veichle ends up crashing into the sea at the end ( as I guess it has to - a shame).
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:33 am

Addendum-sorry.
Reading the forum on Space News it seems the general and sensible view is that this mini BFS second stage will be returned 'intact ' probably by parachutes.The ( obvious) reasoning being that they can then study the physical article for wear and tear etc etc.This Seems a Sensible answer imho.
Another nice though was that if there was felt to be a need to actually land it vertically the mini BFS could be lofted up on a F H thus leaving enough second stage fuel for a vertical powered landing.Expensive test no doubt ( although everything should -in theory - be recoverable for reuse.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:29 pm

Falcon9 now certified as a category 3 launcher by nasa.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/42387-spacex-falcon-9-rocket-nasa-certification.html

The LSP certification ladder only goes up to Category 3, which is reserved for the most dependable launchers. These rockets are expected to have a demonstrated reliability of 90 to 95 percent, according to LSP officials.

For comparison, Category 2 vehicles — the level attained by the Falcon 9 in 2015 — are expected to ace their missions 80 to 90 percent of the time.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:42 am

But never before (other than Shuttle) have we seen rockets reused.In Spacex's case over and over into unknown technical territory.Does it keep this rating very time?
I fully understand why a brand new and ground tested one will get this rating though.Just sayin'.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:41 pm

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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:00 pm

Another successful launch!
And a third successful landing for this F9 booster!

Congratulations yet again SpaceX!

Tugg
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zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:27 pm

Saw the launch from Titusville. It’s becoming routine, at my location I was the only one watching....
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 am

Tugger wrote:
Another successful launch!
And a third successful landing for this F9 booster!

Congratulations yet again SpaceX!

Tugg


I believe core 1047 has only flown once before (Telstar 19V in July), which would make this its second landing.

The next mission, however, should see core 1046 (the first block 5 booster) lob the SSO-A into orbit in a few days from Vanderberg. That will be the third mission for booster 1046, and I believe they will land it as well for a third time, on 'Just Read the Instructions' this time of course.

Another space milestone from SpaceX, coming up!
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:49 am

Congratulations, SpaceX! It looks so easy...
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:17 pm

I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.
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JetBuddy
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:33 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.


Yep, I noticed that as well during the live coverage. I've tried watching it at 0.25x speed several times, but it's difficult to see what it is. It looks like a triangle-shaped structure, at first it looks dark against the background of the earth.. but at the last moment when it passes the camera it looks white or gray.
 
mxaxai
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:56 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.

If you look closely between 19:59 and 21:00 on the left side, you can see lots of small particles passing by the booster (or originating from it, not sure). Maybe it's ice that formed prior to launch, stayed on the rocket during the launch and started thawing in space? The booster would be nearly empty and in direct sunlight, so many parts that were previously cooled by LOx would heat up quickly.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:11 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I re-watched the Es'Hail-2 launch video that SpaceX put on Youtube, and at the 21:00 mark exactly, on the left pane where you can see the booster falling back towards the atmosphere just prior to its re-entry burn, you can see a near miss with an unidentified object of respectable size...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTbzc-BqKs

That has me a little baffled.It's too low and slow to be an orbiting object and too high to be a flying one, so it has to come from the Falcon itself.

My guess is that it is an object that came loose from the rocket assembly at stage separation and followed the same ballistic trajectory slightly ahead of the booster, but started slowing down faster than the heavier booster as it hit the atmosphere and got caught up by it...

Any other guesses?

Interesting shot in any case.


I noticed it too. I thought it might be a piece of ice from a thruster , or maybe a plug to cover the RCS thruster nozzle before first use, like the popcorn bags the shuttle used. I also guessed it came off the rocket, but I assumed it was intentional because of the low relative velocity to the booster. Would love to solve the question officially.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:23 pm

https://spacenews.com/op-ed-moon-direct ... our-years/

Anybody got any views on this? I note the NASA moon orbiting base concept has just under enormous criticism both on timing and cost grounds.This appears to be a fast and cheap alternative?
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:21 am

 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:04 pm

Even the name is changing:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46274158

'Starship'? Really?
What happened to all the cool Sci-Fi inspired names?
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DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:53 am

Francoflier wrote:
Even the name is changing:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46274158

'Starship'? Really?
What happened to all the cool Sci-Fi inspired names?


Maybe Starship will be the type of vehicle but each one will have its own name, like the shuttle.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:03 am

Now 'mini BFS' has gone presumably along with the recently announced 'winged' upper stage.So that whole venture lasted just a few weeks.
He says they now have a new (third?) design for the upper stage that is excitingly 'counter intuitive '.Mmm maybe,I would just settle for it 'working'.
I think we can totally throw away all his recent timelines - even though he says these changes ( cancelling the short lived mini BFS) was to speed up the main meal.
It may be impossible to create a single craft that can land vertically through a thick atmosphere ( Earth) a thin atmosphere (Mars) and no atmosphere (Moon).
Still guess just have to wait to see what his Startreck inspired 'Starship' looks like.Mind you,thinking about it ,the Starship (Enterprise) never did land on any planet surface now did it?? Perhaps he accepts it requires a third stage to do this? I wonder.
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:22 am

parapente wrote:
......... ,the Starship (Enterprise) never did land on any planet surface now did it??


Veridian III ?
OK, it was a "you have to walk away" from kind of landing. :-)
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DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:04 pm

parapente wrote:
Now 'mini BFS' has gone presumably along with the recently announced 'winged' upper stage.So that whole venture lasted just a few weeks.
He says they now have a new (third?) design for the upper stage that is excitingly 'counter intuitive '.Mmm maybe,I would just settle for it 'working'.
I think we can totally throw away all his recent timelines - even though he says these changes ( cancelling the short lived mini BFS) was to speed up the main meal.
It may be impossible to create a single craft that can land vertically through a thick atmosphere ( Earth) a thin atmosphere (Mars) and no atmosphere (Moon).
Still guess just have to wait to see what his Startreck inspired 'Starship' looks like.Mind you,thinking about it ,the Starship (Enterprise) never did land on any planet surface now did it?? Perhaps he accepts it requires a third stage to do this? I wonder.

That’s not what I took from the reporting I’ve seen. Here’s my take:

1) F9 second stage will not receive further development to make them all reusable.
2) a one-off mini-BFS will be made to test reentey and will launch atop F9, maybe they make two to figure out the reentry protocol.
3) they’re re-naming it starship but nobody has suggested it’s going to resemble something from Star Trek. The design will necessarily change as its developed.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:58 pm

WIederling wrote:
parapente wrote:
......... ,the Starship (Enterprise) never did land on any planet surface now did it??


Veridian III ?
OK, it was a "you have to walk away" from kind of landing. :-)


Voyager did, all the time it seemed for a while. And they kept using the same animation sequence also :D.

This renaming business, The ship is onto the 4th name and I'm feeling apathetic now.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:32 pm

Apathetic.Sadly I fully understand - I wish I didn't.Love the guy but he's an egotistic motormouth.Any 'normal' person would shut up.Let his hard working engineers/designers plough through the options and when everyone ( not just him) is ready ,announce it.Its sad and pathetic school boy stuff.Sorry don't wish to use such words.
One has to hope that the heavy lift first stage is untouched by all of this.Particularly as they have commenced fabrication.Note they 'blew up' a carbon vessel that was built to the original wider diameter.Once again too much too early.
Seems to have totally stopped the 'test' F9 second stage re entry veichle.Ok fine if you are 100% confident.But I'd his 'starship' ( my God that was a stupid comment he made - it's never going anywhere near other stars)
If it remAins a two stage concept then he still has to find a way of ablaiting the enormous kenitic energy stored on the vessel.Its got to be drag reduction of some kind. To date both designs have had some sort of 'non lifting wing' to scrub off the speed energy.I don't see another way.
Still just have to wait.Hes told us three times now what he's not going to do,perhaps now might be a good time to finally say what might work.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:47 am

parapente wrote:
Mind you,thinking about it ,the Starship (Enterprise) never did land on any planet surface now did it??

Sure it did, at the end of Star Trek Generations. Not a great landing, but they walked away.
https://youtu.be/jcDiZPJ0V0E
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:58 am

Re above -nice link.Well Elon did say it was a counter intuitive method ( of landing) so perhaps we shouldn't disregard this method!!
His tweets are getting so manic you just never know.He's gotta stop smoking weed!
But on a slightly more serious note it was indeed those words that puzzle me.
Humans have been landing craft back from space for 50 odd years and in different ways.They have been doing the same on Mars ( and Venus).Many of the best brains of their generation worked on it.Spacex is also staffed with really clever people.
But it would be extraordinary if they have come up with a brand new counter intuitive method of landing on both Earth and Mars.But maybe they have and good luck to them.
Clearly the last part is a vertical landing via rocket engines ( and thus take off again later).So it's the bit before that. Anyway we have a different Mars soft landing to look forward to ( fingers crossed) next week.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:42 pm

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-licens ... -campaign/

Addendum.Now they are definitely going to do what Elon said they definitely did not need to do! BFS Grasshopper tests ( both low and high altitude test powered landings ( he said they had got vertical landings sorted - it was the re entry bit that was problematical).These tests are to be conducted (Boa Chica) with a BFS prototype (Starship I guess).But right now no one outside Spacex knows what it even looks like.Still scheduled for late 2019 apparently.
 
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:17 am

While we wait for the thrice-delayed SSO-A launch (first time a booster will be launched and landed 3 times), NASA has seemingly managed to put an end to Musk's day of public marijuana use...:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/29/181 ... ure-review

Lol. NASA, it seems, is still quite old-school when it comes to recreational drug use. I can see where they come from, and agree that it was not a particularly smart stunt by Elon, but times, they are a-changin'...

What bothers me is that NASA's spokesperson goes on talking about workplace and safety culture. Come on, NASA, if there is one organisation that should base its judgement on science and facts, it would be you.
I'm not sure what this little public display would do to encourage SpaceX engineers to suddenly start coming to work intoxicated or to become drug abusers.
I suspect that while NASA would obviously never encourage the consumption of any drug or alcohol (and nor should SpaceX), they certainly wouldn't stop their engineers from drinking recreationally.

He goes on mentioning Apollo 1, Challenger and Colombia... none of which had anything to do with alcohol or drug use but, on the contrary, were poor decisions made by very sober NASA personnel that overlooked safety in the name of time and commercial pressure. That's just daft.

Safety culture in any safety sensitive business, especially that of flinging people into space, is extremely important but they'll have to do better than that if they want to convince me that this is not just NASA being run by a bunch of old white collar babyboomers stuck in the Christian conservative world of their upbringing.



Anyhow...
Just launch this thing already.
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parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:31 am

Francoflyer.I fear the whole space programme is getting highly political.For decades NASA has been in a cosy relationship with the likes of Boeing/Lockheed.Their overpricing/spending of taxpayers money is simply eye watering.This includes military launches as well.Along comes Elon and Spacex and shows the World the truth about what's going on.The price differentials are wider than the Grand Canyon!Top of this overspending list (for NASA) must come the SLS.
From a commercial launch POV it's hard to see why anybody would use anything but the F9.This could obliterate the old cosy duo - so now it goes political.Elon's a smart boy you won't see him with a joint in his hand again.
I note some guy has come up with a Moon direct programme using the FH.It won't happen of course but it would save the US taxpayer $ Billions and billions.The whole idea of an orbiting Moon /space gateway is pretty flawed frankly.And doesn't get you one step closer to Mars.
Just a vast waste of money.But if they don't build it there is absolutly no reason for the SLS -not that there ever was.

So we wait on Spacex and the Starship.Has he reverted to aluminium? Just have to wait and see I guess.One must assume that whatever changes he announces it will be the last ones.Of course it's all ( for him) about going to Mars but --If it does work, going to the Moon ( and back) should be a doddle and what a great way to test all the systems.This will not be lost on NASA/Boeing/Lockheed.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:57 am

parapente wrote:
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-license-application-bfr-spaceship-hop-test-campaign/

Addendum.Now they are definitely going to do what Elon said they definitely did not need to do! BFS Grasshopper tests ( both low and high altitude test powered landings ( he said they had got vertical landings sorted - it was the re entry bit that was problematical).These tests are to be conducted (Boa Chica) with a BFS prototype (Starship I guess).But right now no one outside Spacex knows what it even looks like.Still scheduled for late 2019 apparently.


That’s not what he said. My understanding is grasshoppers we’re planned all along.

He said they didn’t need to test propulsive landing from orbit as they know how to do it, in relation to the small-scale modified F9 Starliner model they were going use to test the actuated wings and things as they scrubbed off speed in the upper atmosphere.

Grasshopper tests are for testing engine gimbaling and throttling managed by the flight Management computer under actual flight conditions.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:03 am

Francoflier wrote:
While we wait for the thrice-delayed SSO-A launch (first time a booster will be launched and landed 3 times), NASA has seemingly managed to put an end to Musk's day of public marijuana use...:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/29/181 ... ure-review

Lol. NASA, it seems, is still quite old-school when it comes to recreational drug use. I can see where they come from, and agree that it was not a particularly smart stunt by Elon, but times, they are a-changin'...

What bothers me is that NASA's spokesperson goes on talking about workplace and safety culture. Come on, NASA, if there is one organisation that should base its judgement on science and facts, it would be you.
I'm not sure what this little public display would do to encourage SpaceX engineers to suddenly start coming to work intoxicated or to become drug abusers.
I suspect that while NASA would obviously never encourage the consumption of any drug or alcohol (and nor should SpaceX), they certainly wouldn't stop their engineers from drinking recreationally.

He goes on mentioning Apollo 1, Challenger and Colombia... none of which had anything to do with alcohol or drug use but, on the contrary, were poor decisions made by very sober NASA personnel that overlooked safety in the name of time and commercial pressure. That's just daft.

Safety culture in any safety sensitive business, especially that of flinging people into space, is extremely important but they'll have to do better than that if they want to convince me that this is not just NASA being run by a bunch of old white collar babyboomers stuck in the Christian conservative world of their upbringing.



Anyhow...
Just launch this thing already.


Spot on. Also the quote had a word of interest that I want to highlight.

“Musk won’t be smoking pot publicly again.” Pats self on back to congratulate himself...

So they don’t care if he blazes himself into oblivion privately. The US government’s weed policies are so out of whack with modern society it’s ridiculous.
 
DarkKnight5
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:36 pm

Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:07 am

parapente wrote:
Francoflyer.I fear the whole space programme is getting highly political.For decades NASA has been in a cosy relationship with the likes of Boeing/Lockheed.Their overpricing/spending of taxpayers money is simply eye watering.This includes military launches as well.Along comes Elon and Spacex and shows the World the truth about what's going on.The price differentials are wider than the Grand Canyon!Top of this overspending list (for NASA) must come the SLS.
From a commercial launch POV it's hard to see why anybody would use anything but the F9.This could obliterate the old cosy duo - so now it goes political.Elon's a smart boy you won't see him with a joint in his hand again.
I note some guy has come up with a Moon direct programme using the FH.It won't happen of course but it would save the US taxpayer $ Billions and billions.The whole idea of an orbiting Moon /space gateway is pretty flawed frankly.And doesn't get you one step closer to Mars.
Just a vast waste of money.But if they don't build it there is absolutly no reason for the SLS -not that there ever was.

So we wait on Spacex and the Starship.Has he reverted to aluminium? Just have to wait and see I guess.One must assume that whatever changes he announces it will be the last ones.Of course it's all ( for him) about going to Mars but --If it does work, going to the Moon ( and back) should be a doddle and what a great way to test all the systems.This will not be lost on NASA/Boeing/Lockheed.

As with any new design, changes will occur constantly right up until the first flight. That what development is.

SpaceX has a very public history of continuing to upgrade and change vehicles after introduction, and I expect the same for BFS and ultra heavy or whatever they’re being called.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:58 pm

That's true Dark Knight5.But to build it in the first place you have to have at least a first fixed design.This would not be worth mentioning if it wasn't for the extraordinary short lead times he speaks of.At this point in the stated development the fundamental design should be fixed.However I agree better to change it now than later!
Other online writers have raised an eyebrow over the 'materials' change.It is pure speculation on their part that he may have abandoned carbon for aluminium.But if it was true it would represent a huge waste of time and money - but we don't know.
I wonder whether the 'sticking point' is the penultimate part of a Mars landing due to the much thinner (4%?) atmosphere.Yes perhaps 90% of the energy will be scrubbed off- just as NASA does with drag.And yes the very last part would be by chemical rocket - just as NASA does .But to loose that last bit of the reentry energy NASA always uses a parachute.Cant see Spacex doing this - yet if you don't - you have to use a lot more of that most precious of all things -fuel.Gotta slow it down somehow in that thin atmosphere.
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:27 pm

Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:47 pm

Congrats SpaceX with the third launch and landing of this specific booster. What a workhorse!
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:48 pm

casinterest wrote:

Ho lee cow.... Wow that was awesome.

I kept thinking "Don't blow up, don't blow up, don't blow up....." as it ascended. It is amazing to begin to think we will have "routine" space access in the future.

And then watching the very normal landing on the drone ship.... Just wow. We are at the beginning of routine space access, making orbit and outer space just another destination for a scheduled flight service.

Congratulations (yet again!) to SpaceX and the entire team there!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:54 pm

Wow, that footage of the first stage!
They are making it almost routine but still thrilling each time.
Feather in the cap for the the 3rd use of that booster too.
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:56 pm

Tugger wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Ho lee cow.... Wow that was awesome.

I kept thinking "Don't blow up, don't blow up, don't blow up....." as it ascended. It is amazing to begin to think we will have "routine" space access in the future.

And then watching the very normal landing on the drone ship.... Just wow. We are at the beginning of routine space access, making orbit and outer space just another destination for a scheduled flight service.

Congratulations (yet again!) to SpaceX and the entire team there!

Tugg


And we get to do this again tomorrow from Cape Canaveral for CRS-16.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:17 pm

Any word on how the fairing recovery attempt went?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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QuarkFly
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:51 am

Francoflier wrote:
Any word on how the fairing recovery attempt went?


Bad, but maybe good news...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939

"Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim."
Elon Musk
Always take the Red Eye if possible
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:39 am

Great to see they aced another launch and touchdown- particularly as this booster was 'pre loved' for the third time.But yup seems like the catcher 'mit' boat just doesn't work however big you make it.Cant say they didn't try their hardest.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-ceo-el ... sed-catch/

But as above it looks like strategy No2 is coming into play.In many ways the whole returning of these giant fairings has been an outstanding success.This time they brought both halves back from outer space to a gentle touchdown in the sea.Thats an incredible achievement.
It also appears that they can return them accurately enough to land within a few 100 meters of the mother ship. This means it's only in the water for a very short time.It really can't be very hard to ensure that the outer shell is salt water proof.
However the inside must be harder.If they can achieve proofing the inside then clearly all is not wasted and they can simply pick them up and give them a 'wash and brush'.
In some ways ( once they achieve this) it's is the end of a chapter.Full recovery and reuse of the first stage booster and third stage fairings.
Elon has announced some time ago that they have given up on trying to recover the second stage from orbit.So the Falcon 9 development programme is now essentially complete.It will simply run as a very efficient business machine,particularly ( cross fingers) when it achieves a full NASA 'man rating' early next year.
They could do more with FH but again Elon has stated that they don't intend to ( man rate) and concentrate on the Starship programme.However it's (FH) always there If needed.
Quite how any other space organisation can compete with the efficiency of the Falcon system I do not know considering all others are expendable systems.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:22 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
Bad, but maybe good news...


Thanks.

parapente wrote:
But as above it looks like strategy No2 is coming into play.In many ways the whole returning of these giant fairings has been an outstanding success.This time they brought both halves back from outer space to a gentle touchdown in the sea.Thats an incredible achievement.


Indeed. It would be funny to see them come to the realization that letting them splashdown near a boat might be infinitely easier and make them only marginally more difficult to refurbish.

Just Scotchgard them before launch and Bob's your uncle...



Meanwhile, in Florida:

https://spacenews.com/experiment-issue- ... o-the-iss/

:eyebrow: ...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.

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