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flyingturtle
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:11 pm

parapente wrote:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Blue_Streak.JPG


Ahhh, the famed "Europa-Rakete" that was tested in Australia. First stage built by Britain. Second stage by France. Third stage by Germany.

They all exploded.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 am

 
tommy1808
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:44 am

flyingturtle wrote:
parapente wrote:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Blue_Streak.JPG


Ahhh, the famed "Europa-Rakete" that was tested in Australia. First stage built by Britain. Second stage by France. Third stage by Germany.

They all exploded.


David


The first stage worked fine though...

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:23 am

Re Dark Kinght.Seems Elon just went down to his Texas base.Again tweeting.Now it seems the Raptor engines have gone through a fundamental re design.But he didn't say what.Talks more about the sroperties of his cold rolled stainless steel alloy .Technically beyond me.
But it does appear he may well go for an Atlas ( Blue steel) style of construction ( which we know can be light)and appears to have very useful thermal properties.
As to what he is actually building down there it's hard to tell,look very 'Heath robinson'!
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:17 pm

To backuo tommy1808, that's true, the Blue Streak derived 1st stage performed.
So of course the UK government, encouraged by this, pressed ahead, with the success if Black Arrow and it's successful launch of the Prospero satellite in 1971, they already had the basis for upper stages for a now proven all UK launch vehicle. As for the Europeans, they gave up on it and the satellite launch business...................oh wait!

Good to see the Falcon 9 go yesterday, even without the 1st landing show this time.
Worth remembering the Space X sued the government after no contest deals for satellite launchers, the success of that legal challenge went up yesterday, likely saved and will save some tax $ in the process.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:51 am

I've no idea what we're looking at in Texas...

That 'Test article' looks more like a mock-up to me, and not a particularly good one at that. It almost looks like a crude model just quickly thrown together.
Then again, the photos aren't particularly good.

Do we know for a fact that this is the actual 'Grasshopper' prototype?

I like that it'll be made of SS now. Shiny... but then whatever happened to the massive mandrel they had assembled to build CFRP barrels?

I maintain that the development of this thing is all over the place, and seems quite disheveled. They seem to change their mind about major aspects of the design every other week. That must drive the engineers crazy. We're obviously nowhere near a design freeze yet.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:12 am

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comment ... s_correct/

All the questions and all the answers on one page relating to Elon's latest Q&A.

Re above it appears that 'the thing' in Texas is/will be a 'grasshopper '.They have applied for and got 2 licences.One for low level hops 200 odd feet and one for about 2,000 feet.The big news is the speed it's all supposed to be happening at.These 'hops' are scheduled for the Spring.Perhaps the autumn date given by Ms Shotwell was for a full sized BFS ( Starship).
Guess all depends on Jan firings of heavily revised Raptor engine.But if successful then I guess it's all just possible.

Re above giant carbon fibre Mandrill in LA docks ( and completed section).Yes it could now be redundant.On the other hand.Why should these sections not be for the booster ( super heavy) stage? This will not suffer any of the figh heat and temps of reentry.No more than say a Virgin Galactic plane thingy.Which is made from composite.Not saying that is the case ( may be a 360) but it's possible imho.Its the super high ( and repeated) re-entry temps that are the issue with the spaceship part.
He's clearly in a hurry to get those 4,000 plus Starlink sats up - and why not.Manned work will come far later imho.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:05 am

That thing is about 500 feet from my front door. They're trying to get permission for 5 kilometers, which is about as high as they can get without disrupting airline traffic.
Parapente might be right about the booster still being composite.
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:47 am

Nomadd wrote:
That thing is about 500 feet from my front door. They're trying to get permission for 5 kilometers, which is about as high as they can get without disrupting airline traffic.
Parapente might be right about the booster still being composite.

Pics or it didn’t happen.
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:42 am

flyingturtle wrote:
parapente wrote:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Blue_Streak.JPG


Ahhh, the famed "Europa-Rakete" that was tested in Australia. First stage built by Britain. Second stage by France. Third stage by Germany.
They all exploded.

sure.
6 from 10.
bad enough.
Murphy is an optimist
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:44 am

Keep the pictures coming Nomadd -please! Obviously they are not nearly there yet ( no engines for instance!) but they might just put the top and the bottom together fairly soon.
My wish for this test veichle would be that they paint it in red and white check as in Tin Tin!
That would be fun since Musk has already stated that the full size craft cannot be painted at all - but will be shiny ( heat reflective) stainless steel which will be nice anyway.
Booster carbon? Another good reason is the phenomenal strength of carbon composite ( as well as lightness).You have to imagine the total weight of the stainless steel Starship itself plus all the fuel plus enormous cargo weight - all being transmitted directly through the body of the Stage one BFR. ( which has to take the stresses of landing too).Thats simply enormous.And it's gotta do it over and over again .Carbon composite would be a good choice IMHO.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:57 pm

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-m ... g-rapidly/

More from Musk.Even teslerati is sceptical.Liquid ( methane ie fuel) cooled stainless steel body for reentry! Still shooting for 2020 orbital !
He is admitting that the change ( to steel) is all about keeping to the time plan.Note he recently fired a bunch of senior exec's working on Starlink for being too slow.
Imho he wants those babies ( com sats) up there and he wants them up there fast!First mover advantage ( or is Blue Origin worrying him)
Still as a passive observer it's great.No human lives involved ( just launching thousands of sats) so not serious in that sense if something goes wrong.
Will deff' have to cross the pond to watch this baby fly! Just wish he would stop the illustrations with a 'greenhouse' on the top - just not ( imho) true.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:17 pm

DarkKnight5 wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
That thing is about 500 feet from my front door. They're trying to get permission for 5 kilometers, which is about as high as they can get without disrupting airline traffic.
Parapente might be right about the booster still being composite.

Pics or it didn’t happen.

Talk to the people who don't allow pics on this thread.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:22 pm

parapente wrote:
Keep the pictures coming Nomadd -please! Obviously they are not nearly there yet ( no engines for instance!) but they might just put the top and the bottom together fairly soon.
My wish for this test veichle would be that they paint it in red and white check as in Tin Tin!
That would be fun since Musk has already stated that the full size craft cannot be painted at all - but will be shiny ( heat reflective) stainless steel which will be nice anyway.
Booster carbon? Another good reason is the phenomenal strength of carbon composite ( as well as lightness).You have to imagine the total weight of the stainless steel Starship itself plus all the fuel plus enormous cargo weight - all being transmitted directly through the body of the Stage one BFR. ( which has to take the stresses of landing too).Thats simply enormous.And it's gotta do it over and over again .Carbon composite would be a good choice IMHO.

It makes sense. The booster doesn't have to worry about the high re-entry speeds like the spaceship does. But weight isn't as important on the booster either. 20 extra tons on the spaceship means 20 tons less payload. 20 extra tons on the booster would only be about 3 tons less payload.

I got the first pics, but have been gone for a week and will be gone for another week. Most go to L2 now because of an agreement with SpaceX.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:36 pm

Nomadd wrote:
Talk to the people who don't allow pics on this thread.


I vote for allowing pics in this thread. Definitely.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:36 pm

AirlineCritic wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
Talk to the people who don't allow pics on this thread.


I vote for allowing pics in this thread. Definitely.

Don't look at me! I wholeheartedly support more pictures!

I guess there is an agreement in place somewhere for some reason:

Nomadd wrote:
Most go to L2 now because of an agreement with SpaceX.


(What...? We're not geeky enough here?)
Image

Tugg
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:15 am

First time I've tried this in a while. I didn't realize things had changed.
The first is when it started. Everybody just saw a water tank. Not too exciting. Experts and people who thought they were smart made fun of anybody remarking that the tank was the same diameter as the spaceship.
The second is a composite of a recent photo I took of the Boca Chica pad site and a photoshop assembly of known BFH pieces by Jdeshetler in NSF. He did a whole lot better job than I did putting it together.

People have always been skeptical of Musk. I don't think he cares. His optimistic timelines seem to twist a lot of panties, but he eventually gets it done.

(photo by me)
Image

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index ... =47001.180
Image
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:24 am

Thanks Nomadd keep them coming! The composite phot is brilliant.Gives a clear sense of what is being constructed in Texas.
Btw what/who is L2?
I go to Reddit to try and understand the more technical bits that the experts are pondering/discussing.
Can't wait to see this baby 'hop'!
I note Spacex is talking with NASA about TUFROC for use on ( experts say) leading edges of 'wings'.
Was looking a picture of an X37. Of course it's different but still has to do a full speed reentry.Its 'wing' structures are different of course but I wonder whether it enters the atmosphere in a similar way to the computer diagrams that Elon has shown.

Whilst I know I am in a minority of one,I still think creating a Stainless steel scale second stage F9 with appropriate ' wing' appendages would be a good idea ( as Musk originally proposed) as no one has ever tried this sort of re entry with stainless steel.
But no doubt they know best.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:46 am

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aer ... it-someone

Worth a read imho.Oddly not so much about whether something will hit someone but the enormity of the task.Look at total mass compared to the space station!
But most of all - at the end,the timeline ( time box) he has been given to get all these sats up there. It's incredibly tight.The window starts this year!
Now one can see what the rush is both for the rocket and for the sats themselves.Very tight indeed.
He simply cannot do this with F9's.The race is on!
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:53 pm

Nomadd wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
That thing is about 500 feet from my front door. They're trying to get permission for 5 kilometers, which is about as high as they can get without disrupting airline traffic.
Parapente might be right about the booster still being composite.

Pics or it didn’t happen.

Talk to the people who don't allow pics on this thread.

That’s a thing? Mods, fix this please.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:18 am

DarkKnight5 wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
Pics or it didn’t happen.

Talk to the people who don't allow pics on this thread.

That’s a thing? Mods, fix this please.

It's already fixed. I was just out of date or mixing things up. (As usual)
L2 is the paid section of NasaSpaceFlight.com. Some of the photos were a little sensitive, so a lot of them started going there.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:11 pm

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/01/t ... opper.html

My God the space hopper has already got its engines fitted! Three of them.Were hidden behind the concrete skirt but it's now been moved.
The final stainless steel joining parts are also visible from a drone shot.
The speed of this assembly is simply stunning.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:23 pm

They actually cut about 4 feet off the bottom of the lower section after they lifted it off the concrete base. They're using the base to work on the shiny middle section now. Within a day, you'll start seeing photos of them polishing the dull lower section.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:45 am

Thx Nomadd,keep 'em coming when you have a chance.
I guess they haven't put any tanks in it yet - or plumbing etc so perhaps they need to leave it open to get decent access.
But who knows could already be stuffed!
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:36 am

It's coming together.
Image
 
ThePointblank
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:27 am

Dragon 2 has been rolled out and is now vertical on a Falcon 9 booster to Pad 39A at the KSC:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/space ... launch-pad

Launch is slated for no earlier than January 17th, but that date will probably slip due to the government shutdown.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:11 pm

Nomadd wrote:
It's coming together.


I still have trouble believing that this thing will get airborne...

It looks more like a shoddily built playground implement than a space gear testing article.

I'd love to be proven wrong.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:04 pm

The experts have noticed that the engine bells have a subtly change of angle part way down, meaning that they're what they call dual bells. They have fairly good performance at sea level through vacuum. If they're mockups, they're remarkably good ones.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:37 pm

I did see that mentioned somewhere.

I suppose they don't need anything terribly fancy if all they're going to do is short hops close to the ground, especially if the gimballing engines take care of all the steering needs.

If we're talking about the same well-informed youtuber, however, he also mentioned the fact that the fancy carbon propellant tanks were nowhere to be seen, and that the contractors that were seen on site appeared to be more versed in water tank building than rocketry... though you might know something about that if you live a stone's throw away from the site.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:54 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
It's coming together.


I still have trouble believing that this thing will get airborne...

It looks more like a shoddily built playground implement than a space gear testing article.

I'd love to be proven wrong.


I think it's important to remember that this vehicle is not intended to fly in space. It will only fly in the lower atmosphere. It only needs to model the physical properties of the BFS. No need for exotic materials. No need for the big carbon tanks, etc.
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:15 pm

Sure, but if even the internal components such as fuel tanks for the engines aren't going to be in there, then it's nothing but a fancy mass simulator. A very crude boilerplate at most.

And if it's just a massive paperweight sitting on engines, then what's the point of testing it, other than, maybe, the guidance system? There's no systems, no structure, very little that a computer simulation couldn't tell them.
The grasshopper was much closer to the actual Falcon than this.

I honestly believe this is just an effort to assuage Musk's impatience. Again, I'd love to be wrong (and usually am).
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:15 pm

Great photo Nomadd.Thx.The sheer speed of development.
I have read about the dual bell chamber which (I believe) has only been theorised but never built so no doubt testing it would be a good idea.
In another article they stated that Spacex had only landed using 3 engines once or twice as is tricky ( usually use one engine) so can see the merits of testing that.
In yet another article they noted that the new ( far more powerful) engines will need to be throttled ( back) to just 20%. This again is inherently difficult ( experts say) and indeed 'no' engine ( rocket) has ever been throttled back this far stable Or unstable.So plenty to test - no doubt more.
But
There is one area that won't be tested here.Its probably the key technology and absolutly no one has even theorised it let alone tested it.
That is
1. Using polished stainless steel as a primary heat barrier AND cryogenically cooling it from the inside using fuel.Ths sounds dauntingly complicated and tricky.But
2. On top that you have to keep the craft on exactly the right AOA ( critical) ths s to be achieved by moving forward canards and rear ' wing/tail'. This s a whole degree of difficulty more than the space shuttle AOA management for instance.

I guess there is simply just no way of 'prototype testing' it just doing it.Wow,now that will be something to see in 2020. God luck to them if they can pull it off.Its one hell of an ask imho.

Btw the full sized Starship will not be the one usually shown with a greenhouse and multi windows.It will be the cargo ship first shown launching a giant satellite in an early illustration but not repeated recently.Thats the badly that will have to launch a huge amount of Starlink satellites over perhaps 4 years f launches.
Humans will come (far) later imho.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:26 pm

It really does look like something from Flash Gordon or Tintin.

Looking forward to seeing this thing fly. As weird as it will be having grown up on a diet of Space Shuttle, Soyuz, Delta IV, and Falcon 9.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:39 am

They answered the question about the dull lower section. The water towers Caldwell builds are 9m bases, which is perfect and hold 2,000 ton water tanks. And they don't have 200,000 gallons of fuel tanks here for nothing. This guy will have colonies in Andromeda and people will still scoff at him because they just can't believe things don't have to be done the way they've always been done.
Image
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:59 am

A photo of the tanks.

Image
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 am

Francoflier wrote:
Sure, but if even the internal components such as fuel tanks for the engines aren't going to be in there, then it's nothing but a fancy mass simulator. A very crude boilerplate at most.

And if it's just a massive paperweight sitting on engines, then what's the point of testing it, other than, maybe, the guidance system? There's no systems, no structure, very little that a computer simulation couldn't tell them.
The grasshopper was much closer to the actual Falcon than this.

I honestly believe this is just an effort to assuage Musk's impatience. Again, I'd love to be wrong (and usually am).


It will be very useful to test never before flown engines: their performances throttling, and their gimbaling. Testing is never useless.

It could also help demonstrate that this thing is more than a paper rocket and therefore help in fundraising.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:07 am

DarkKnight5 wrote:
It will be very useful to test never before flown engines: their performances throttling, and their gimbaling. Testing is never useless.


I agree, but I still think much of that engine testing can be done on the test bench.

DarkKnight5 wrote:
It could also help demonstrate that this thing is more than a paper rocket and therefore help in fundraising.


:checkmark: I really believe that this is the main point of this thing.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:00 am

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comment ... ess_steel/

Quite a nice vid from Scott Manley.He's a real engineer and he is totally confused! So I guess we all are - just the way Elon likes it.Which is fine it's his project.
Stainless steel on the lower section.Couldnt find the explanation but it looks like extremely thin sheets on top of everyday metal.The upper section looks similar construction.therefore 'looks only' but so?
Elon says that they are functional engines comprising of Starship parts ( the double bell?) and innards from elsewhere ( F9 parts?) and that the full engine is to be tested soon.
He is certainly suggesting that this is not a 'boilerplate mock up' but something that will actually fly in test hops.Clearly ( based on his dates) it has to be the latter.The former is silly anyway.
Scott mentioned that Spacex had recently missed out on various potential funding allocations.Wonder what they were.Is NASA/Gov't playing hard ball ( no doubt with a little prodding from Boeing/Lockheed!)

Problem perhaps for Elon is that if you were an investor you would be 'over the moon' with what the F9 ( block5) is achieving commercially and if you want more ,well there is always the ( already successful) FH which gets 3 more flights anyway this year.That covers all ( all) commercial requirements.So why invest more in a non profit venture BFR to Mars? Answer -you don't .Would you? ( remember investment is about return on capital and nothing more).
Perhaps he can persuade them that Starlink 'only' happens with the Starship (in cargo mode).Only thing I can think of.
 
maxter
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm

maxter
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:11 pm

Will have to get the steam iron out and get rid of the creases to make it look as good as that.But it will be great anyway!

Just a small thought
.I wonder whether they could test their idea of special polished stainless steel as the primary re-entry material/heat barrier - cryogenically cooled by rocket fuel inside by -
A reworked Dragon supply re entry craft.They simply 'have' to test this system it's never been done before and he would never 'waste' a Starship and just 'hope' the system works. The existing ( but modified with internal tank) re entry Dragon capsule might be fine for this use.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am

maxter wrote:

They have the dishes reversed in that render.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:44 am

The upper sections are just very thin stainless sheets over light frames. The lower is something like 16mm steel with a lot of structure inside. The flight engines are being made in Hawthorne now and should be ready for testing shortly. The ones in the hopper are development engines that won't fly.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:02 am

As always thx for info Nomadd.Looks like your home town is going to the centre of interest over the next 6 months.I bet there are loads of journo's down there already!
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:49 pm

https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/sat ... ot-so-much

For those interested in Starlink.Gives an idea on just what a 'bet the farm' concept it is.
Admire his xxxxx,this is no walk in the park.More a winner takes ( or looses) all. Clearly v complicated technology.

Couple of other articles ask 'why the rush' regarding Starship hopper.The guys down in Texas are working 24/7.
One answer is clearly this Starlink project.
The other may ( may) be to launch Starship proper before the SLS - rendering it redundant at birth.
Take your pick or both.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:58 pm

Information from hopper testing could affect final BFS design, so they'd need it as soon as possible. There are a hundred things you can't get from a test stand, but only from flight testing.
 
parapente
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:40 pm

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon ... near-miss/

Interesting I thought.As an ex paraglide pilot (10 years) this 'should' be possible.'Spot' landings are not that hard but of course the 'computer' is on board rather than remote which clearly makes a difference.It is of course a far far bigger thing to spot land ( size of a bus).
Looking at the footage once the boat is outside the flight line for landing they are somewhat doomed.Boats can't go sideways! But if lined up on the flight path it should be possible I would have thought.
However accepting that it clearly is difficult ( too difficult?) then the more recent idea of saltwater proofing the fairing for a short duration might be the more practical route long term.
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:37 pm

parapente wrote:
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-fairing-recovery-progress-reveal-mr-steven-near-miss/

Interesting I thought.As an ex paraglide pilot (10 years) this 'should' be possible.'Spot' landings are not that hard but of course the 'computer' is on board rather than remote which clearly makes a difference.It is of course a far far bigger thing to spot land ( size of a bus).
Looking at the footage once the boat is outside the flight line for landing they are somewhat doomed.Boats can't go sideways! But if lined up on the flight path it should be possible I would have thought.
However accepting that it clearly is difficult ( too difficult?) then the more recent idea of saltwater proofing the fairing for a short duration might be the more practical route long term.


Parapente’s link contains video of a fairing dropped by helicopter. Mr Steven attempts recovery of same.

Precision para-drop equipment exists in the military world. Is the system SpaceX is using developed in house? Or was it brought in from the outside?
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parapente
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:59 pm

Don't suppose anyone knows where/who developed it.But with such a huge mass slung so far underneath it can't be very east to manoeuvre .
To state the blindingly obvious.
The craft must fly dead upwind to create nice solid lift and slowest approach.there should be no thermic activity ( not counting sea thermals ) to effect the ( known) sink rate.
Get the craft over the net from the stern and then stall the parafoil.
But clearly they can't.There will be a reason of course.But even on this 'copter drop the boat was not properly aligned and was manoeuvring like mad at the end.It wasn't as close as it looked imho.
Perhaps better to soft land it nearby have a crane ready and pick it up super quick with a ton of fresh water to spray it down.
Coat the inside with good ol' WD40!
It's gotta be ok with fresh water as the 'shell' is exposed to the elements for the journey home - it does rain! But as any sailor would know you are definitely going to get some (salty) sea spray anyway,just impossible to avoid on a choppy sea ( they are a long way out).
They will of course have factored this in so it must be quite resilient to this already surely.
Personally would love it if they can retrieve/reuse the fairing as that would complete the F9/FH programme.They are not going to proceed with any second stage recovery and I'm not surprised considering the logistics.
Totally rewrite the economics textbooks of rocketry whatever others build- that is disposable - so crude in comparison.
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:43 pm

I should think the best approach would be to have Mr Steven stationary. Then have parafoil aimed at fixed target. This is how the military systems work.
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zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:31 pm

Everything is stacked down in Boca Chica. I’d post a pix if I could.
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