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epten
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Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:03 am

Since Russian air force begun operations in Syria, couple of videos emerged that seem to show bombs missing their target. A video of a bomb exploding accurately under the cross is yet to be seen.

What do you think? Am I missing something or, perhaps, western guiding systems are - in fact - considerably more advanced?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russian-jets-strike-command-centre-syria-090737916.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiA0JUdWR6M
 
Ozair
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:16 pm

Quoting epten (Thread starter):
What do you think? Am I missing something or, perhaps, western guiding systems are - in fact - considerably more advanced?

Western systems are probably more accurate, especially if the Russian munitions are Glonass guided. I'm more concerned about who the Russians are bombing than their apparent lack of accuracy...
 
Luxair
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:42 pm

Quoting Ozair (Reply 1):

Indeed, I've just read that the Russians are bombing Syrian insurgents however mostly avoiding IS targets, if true WTF are they doing?
source: Reuters http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...a-airstrikes-idUSKCN0RW0W220151002

opposite to Reuters news report the Washington Post is reporting this "Russian warplanes strike deep inside Islamic State’s heartland"

source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russian-warplanes-strike-deep-inside-islamic-states-heartland/2015/10/02/ace6dfcc-6866-11e5-bdb6-6861f4521205_story.html

confusing isn't it?
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:42 pm

Quoting Luxair (Reply 2):
if true WTF are they doing?

They are supporting Assad. Assad is being attacked by both ISIS and Western backed rebels . . .

I see this as a potential benefit for the US as it may drive some of the Islamist (non IS) rebels to be more friendly to the US just to get some air cover.

Remember all the worries about the stolen Man Pad SAM's falling into the wrong hands? What ever happened to them. Seems to me what quantities in stock are now depleted and potential terrorists would have a hard time getting their hands on a working missile to take down an airline.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
epten
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:51 pm

Although I'm sure that this thread has a potential to develop in a super-interesting general discussion about the political and military situation in Syria, my question was purely about the technology used. Thanks in advance!
 
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moo
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting epten (Thread starter):
Since Russian air force begun operations in Syria, couple of videos emerged that seem to show bombs missing their target. A video of a bomb exploding accurately under the cross is yet to be seen.

From the thread in Non-Aviation, the video is being taken by Russian drones, and is not the boresight video of the targeting aircraft, so the bombs not exploding directly under the crosshairs on screen has nothing to do with accuracy...
 
epten
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 5):
From the thread in Non-Aviation, the video is being taken by Russian drones, and is not the boresight video of the targeting aircraft, so the bombs not exploding directly under the crosshairs on screen has nothing to do with accuracy...

I understand, thank you.

What about the first video, taken in IR range? It is quite obvious that while the crosshair is aimed at the building, the bomb explodes further away into empty terrain.
 
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moo
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:22 pm

Quoting epten (Reply 6):
What about the first video, taken in IR range? It is quite obvious that while the crosshair is aimed at the building, the bomb explodes further away into empty terrain.

After reviewing the footage, I would disagree with you - there is no evidence that the intended target is what is under the cross hairs seen, and we also don't get a good view of what is actually hit.

Also, LGBs arent 100% accurate even for western forces - they were only 90% accurate during the 2002 Afghanistan offensive, which meant that several hundred weapons were off-target...
 
mbg
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:40 pm

Well either the last bomb missed its target or Russian were targeting a field next to a few buildings.
 
bhill
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting epten (Reply 6):
What about the first video, taken in IR range? It is quite obvious that while the crosshair is aimed at the building, the bomb explodes further away into empty terrain.

it was defecting.....
Carpe Pices
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:21 am

1. Russia is mostly using dumb bombs, usually FAB-500 and FAB-250 and Bunker buster variations of these. Though the Su-34 were spotted carrying KAB-500S which are pretty much like a JDAM.

2. The video doesn't come from a targeting pod, is fimed from a drone with a human operator on the ground, not from the planes. For whatever reason, the operator doesn't seem to have a clue...

3. The Russians wouldn't publish such videos if they were actually missing their marks so badly, just on a PR basis alone.

4. Russia is there to support Assad, which means the West's imaginary moderates are targets too. Keep in mind that many of those FSA territories actually belong to Al-Nusra, Ahrar ash-Sham, etc. The only true moderates in this conflict are the Kurds and NATO doesn't seem to mind Turkey's insistence on bombing them while providing support for islamist groups.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:23 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 10):
2. The video doesn't come from a targeting pod, is fimed from a drone with a human operator on the ground, not from the planes. For whatever reason, the operator doesn't seem to have a clue...

That's correct. The cross air you see is merely the center of the camera's field of view. Its probably a drone camera. Targeting cameras have much more information on the sides and bottom.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 10):
. Russia is there to support Assad, which means the West's imaginary moderates are targets too. Keep in mind that many of those FSA territories actually belong to Al-Nusra, Ahrar ash-Sham,

I've questioned how either they or us can identify whose who. No one but Assad's troops even wears a uniform?

Quoting moo (Reply 7):
Also, LGBs arent 100% accurate even for western forces

lol, LGB's aren't used for what is essentially close air support. That would be quite costly for a already stretched Russia. The LGB is riding the reflection as well so targeting grass fields isnt going to give you much signal. You want a structure of some sort.
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:24 pm

Anyway, if this had happened on a Russian Airstrike in Syria we wouldn't hear the end of it...

Quote:
Doctors Without Borders Hospital Hit During U.S. Airstrike in Afghanistan, 19 Killed
http://gawker.com/doctors-without-bo...l-hit-during-u-s-airstr-1734454502
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:09 am

Su-34 with two GPS guided bombs underneath

They have been used to hit targets in Raqqah

Su-30SM have been spotted doing CAP with an unusual load of 4x R-27(probably ER), 2 R-73 and two EW pods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSXuNTwnxuI

[Edited 2015-10-03 21:10:57]
 
Stealthz
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 12):
Anyway, if this had happened on a Russian Airstrike in Syria we wouldn't hear the end of it...

I am tending to think this was an accident BUT (And this is going to sound callous) collateral damage is part of war.
If the bad guys are going to seek refuge in hospitals and schools then the hospitals and schools might get hit.
The "bad guys" need to know taking human shields will not work.
I tend to think that the West's squeamishness about collateral damage has caused a lot of the failed campaigns of the last half century.
Let's see over the next few weeks if Russia shares this squeamishness(they will for a few days to exploit the "moral high ground")
This post is likely to get me flamed off the site
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
Stealthz
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 13):
Su-30SM have been spotted doing CAP with an unusual load of 4x R-27(probably ER), 2 R-73 and two EW pods.

Good to see them bring them back to base though, having seen pics of recent coalition Air-to-Air loadouts in the area this has the potential to turn really ugly!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
bennett123
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:03 pm

I suspect if the enemy kept well away from civilians that would reduce civilian casaulties.

It would also make it easier for Assad or NATO to wipe them out.

Regrettably, they are not THAT dumb.
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:27 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 15):
Good to see them bring them back to base though, having seen pics of recent coalition Air-to-Air loadouts in the area this has the potential to turn really ugly!!

There were reports of an incident between the Su-30SM's and some Israeli F-15I's, but the only sources were very sketchy blogs.

The russians have started to use Kh-25 laser guide missiles as they were spotted being loaded on a Su-24 in Latakia



Plus the Russian MoD reported the employment of the bigger Kh-29L from the Su-24 and Su-34 platforms

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Kh-29L_(1).jpg/1280px-Kh-29L_(1).jpg

And also Bunker Buster bombs and Anti-bunker Cluster bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc6_WOKXVFg

There are reports that Iraq has asked Russia to bomb ISIS targets within the country as well.

[Edited 2015-10-04 13:38:13]

[Edited 2015-10-04 13:39:25]
 
Ozair
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 13):

Su-30SM have been spotted doing CAP with an unusual load of 4x R-27(probably ER), 2 R-73 and two EW pods.

That is representative of a typical A2A load for a Russian Flanker. Why do you think it is an unusual load?

Quoting stealthz (Reply 14):
I tend to think that the West's squeamishness about collateral damage has caused a lot of the failed campaigns of the last half century.

I don't think so and certainly not over the last 50 years, perhaps the last 15... Even then, the use of schools or hospitals may have prevented a few strikes but in the long run many of these individuals are still struck. To be effective the insurgents need to leave these locations eventually. Persistent UCAV coverage and the use of smaller weapons also makes these types of attacks more precise and possible at all hours of the day.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 16):
I suspect if the enemy kept well away from civilians that would reduce civilian casaulties.

It would also make it easier for Assad or NATO to wipe them out.

Afghanistan has a perfect example of this. After several years of laying low in 2006 the insurgency picked up. The Taliban, for an unknown reason, began the spring fighting with larger formations of troops conventionally attacking Coalition targets. The Taliban suffered significant losses as NATO had trained and its weapons were optimized to fight this type of conventional war. I remember a US General commenting on how easy it was to destroy these massed formations of troops. The Taliban obviously didn't fight that way for very long.
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting Ozair (Reply 18):
Why do you think it is an unusual load?

Because of the russians custom of mixing 2 Semi-active/Active + 2 IR BVR missiles

Going out with a full Semi-active/Active and no R-27T in the loadout is unusual.
 
dfwjim1
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:23 pm

A little off topic but could Russia's bases in Syria be subject to attack via airstrikes by anti-Assad forces?
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 20):
A little off topic but could Russia's bases in Syria be subject to attack via airstrikes by anti-Assad forces?

There were two attempts with Grads against the base in Latakia. The first one caused the Russians to move their planes to the other end of the runway and cover them with nets. The second strike, just about 2 or 3 rockets managed to land anywhere near the vicinity of the base.

Since then, the Russians have Mi-24 on patrol pretty much 24/7
 
Ozair
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 19):
Going out with a full Semi-active/Active and no R-27T in the loadout is unusual.

Probably wise given the operating environment though. There are enough aircraft flying around, both military fighters/bombers and civilian transports that if for some reason they did launch a missile the semi-active AA-10 A/C would be a better option and no chance that the B/D tracks on the wrong target.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:29 am

Quoting stealthz (Reply 14):
am tending to think this was an accident BUT (And this is going to sound callous) collateral damage is part of war.
If the bad guys are going to seek refuge in hospitals and schools then the hospitals and schools might get hit.
The "bad guys" need to know taking human shields will not work.

Are you seriously advocating the deliberate killing of innocent civilians for the sake of getting to the 'bad guy' who's hiding behind them?

This is not callous, no. This is way beyond that...
If you are going to be as heinous as the terrorists, why fight them at all? You might as well join them.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:43 am

The accuracy is aided by weather forecasts.

Russian TV: Weather forecast 'favourable' for air strikes on Syria [Video]
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russian-tv-...le-air-strikes-syria-video-1522538

A Russian state TV presenter has detailed on air the "perfect weather forecast" for the country's ongoing campaign in Syria in what seems a bizarre excess of support for President Vladimir Putin's new military operation.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
dahawaiian
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:21 am

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 24):
The accuracy is aided by weather forecasts.

Russian TV: Weather forecast 'favourable' for air strikes on Syria [Video]
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russian-tv-...le-air-strikes-syria-video-1522538

A Russian state TV presenter has detailed on air the "perfect weather forecast" for the country's ongoing campaign in Syria in what seems a bizarre excess of support for President Vladimir Putin's new military operation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/05/middleeast/syria-russia-airstrikes/

If the weather is so good, how does that explain the recent incursions into Turkish airspace that the Russians have blamed on allegedly bad weather? Great weather for accurate airstrikes, but not great for accurate navigation near the Turkish border?
Some of videos I have seen show a whole lot of dirt being kicked up and not much else. Their interpretation of accurate seems to be a bit different from ours apparently.
 
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par13del
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 25):
Some of videos I have seen show a whole lot of dirt being kicked up and not much else. Their interpretation of accurate seems to be a bit different from ours apparently.

My whole take on the accuracy issue will be the results on the ground, if the Assad forces start gaining ground and the various rebel groups all start coming together to complain about the Russian involvement, I will say their strikes are very accurate.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 25):

If the weather is so good, how does that explain the recent incursions into Turkish airspace that the Russians have blamed on allegedly bad weather?

A radio report I heard says that the weather excuse the Russians used is the wind direction (south) as Latakia airbase is not terribly far from the Turkish border - though it's still 30 km or so, and thus a crap excuse. The same report said the Russians have an ELINT aircraft in place and that they're probably probing Turkish/NATO air defeces.

This sounds very plausible to me - it would be out of habitual interest and quite unrelated to their mission in Syria.

I have a question - how did the Russian combat aircraft reach Latakia? Unless they came by ship, they must have overflown either Turkey or Irand and Iraq, likely with permission and Western knowledge because opposing both IS and Assad isn't going to work.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
sovietjet
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 27):
I have a question - how did the Russian combat aircraft reach Latakia? Unless they came by ship, they must have overflown either Turkey or Irand and Iraq, likely with permission and Western knowledge because opposing both IS and Assad isn't going to work.
http://theaviationist.com/2015/09/23...ans-deployed-28-aircraft-to-syria/
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 27):
they must have overflown either Turkey or Irand and Iraq, likely with permission and Western knowledge because opposing both IS and Assad isn't going to work.

Through Iran and Iraq. I doubt the Iraqi government would request NATO permission about whether to allow the planes or not, let alone Iran...

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 25):
Their interpretation of accurate seems to be a bit different from ours apparently.

I guess they haven't found a MSF hospital yet.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 29):
I doubt the Iraqi government would request NATO permission about whether to allow the planes or not, let alone Iran...

I thought Iraq was supposed to be a US ally.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:33 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 30):
I thought Iraq was supposed to be a US ally.

At this point in time, they are closer to Iran than they are close to the US. Which is ironic because Saddam hated the Iranians...and the Saudis
 
dahawaiian
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:08 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 29):
I guess they haven't found a MSF hospital yet.

Again, we hit what we aim at more often than not. It doesn't look like you are disputing that.
Tragic incidents like this are an unfortunate fact of war, and I think Russians like you would agree.
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting dahawaiian (Reply 32):
Again, we hit what we aim at more often than not. It doesn't look like you are disputing that.

Sure. Thing is, I don't see the russians releasing videos of their air campaing if they would be missing the targets as much as people seem to be thinking.

Particularly with some of the bunker busting bombs they are deploying, including rocket propelled ones.
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:27 pm

Today was a landmark even for the conflict and the russians. The Caspian Sea fleet launched an attack on Syria using Kalber LACM.

26 Missiles were launched from the corvettes of the fleet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMasnaAf_H4

http://i.imgur.com/dFrOXgf.jpg
 
epten
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:58 pm

 
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zeke
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 33):
Sure. Thing is, I don't see the russians releasing videos of their air campaing if they would be missing the targets as much as people seem to be thinking.

Well they have shown there systems are accurate enough now to bomb somewhere in Syria, and even to bring down an unarmed subsonic airliner.

World class stuff.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 36):

Just like those awarded heros in the USS Vincennes, shooting down those swing-wing A300...

Or bombing trains with refugees, or Hospitals. Top notch stuff.
 
bennett123
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:21 am

This is an interesting thread.

Both parties have screwed up and shot down airliners in the past.

Best to leave that for Non Av.
 
epten
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:10 pm

Misidentifying the target is not the same as missing the target. A wrong target can be hit with a very high precision.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 38):

Both parties have screwed up and shot down airliners in the past.

Yes, when pulling these anecdotes, consider whether the mishaps was:

1) Intentional
2) Non intentional due to bad intelligence.
3) Intentional but just missed due to technical issue.

Lets keep the list down to item 3 

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 40):
Yes, when pulling these anecdotes, consider whether the mishaps was:

1) Intentional
2) Non intentional due to bad intelligence.
3) Intentional but just missed due to technical issue.

So none of these shootdowns were intentional, the A300 was incompetence, right?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 20):
A little off topic but could Russia's bases in Syria be subject to attack via airstrikes by anti-Assad forces?

By whose air force? The Arabs (KSA, UAE ?). I seriously doubt it. The first move the Russians made was to place a Naval force off Latakia with a air defense system based off the S-300. Plus there is a land based S300 in the vicinity. It is well protected from any air attack. It will also shoot down cruise missiles either flying past it or at it.

Apparently, part of the reason the S300 is so effective is that there is a fully automatic mode. It will shoot down everything in its zone without the right IFF code if set to do so. There is no room for operator error or hesitation in other words.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 37):
Just like those awarded heros in the USS Vincennes,

Right, even worse they never mention theft Iran was only sold the F14A model which does not have a ground attack or naval attack capability. Something the NAVY surely knew given they designed and flew the plane. What would a F-14 do? Strafe them with 20 mm guns? Come on. Even with the misidentification it was ludicrous. Plus the plane was climbing.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:12 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 41):
So none of these shootdowns were intentional, the A300 was incompetence, right?

For the sake of the subject matter, if the shoot down was intentional, then the accuracy of the missile would not be in question.

If the shoot down was not intentional, then there would be issues with bad intelligence, negligence, etc. The missile did what it was supposed to do.

We now should be talking about a bomb hitting a hospital when it was targeting a supply dump next door.

But I guess you are right, with all the conspiracy theorist around, who know if the "miss hit" was intentional or not.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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moo
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:06 pm

Not sure we have had this posted yet:

Col. Steve Warren, spokesman for Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR), 2015:

Quote:

Col. Warren went further to castigate Russia for its use of one particular type of ordinance: “You know, there’s been reporting that the Russians are using cluster munitions in Syria, which we also find to be irresponsible. These munitions have a high dud rate, they can cause damage and they can hurt civilians, and they’re just, you know, not good.”

State Department spokesperson Rear Admiral John Kirby, August 2015:

Quote:
stated that the administration had “discussed reports of the alleged use of cluster munitions with the Saudis” and considered them “permissible” if they are “used appropriately and according with those end-use rules.”
http://blogs.cfr.org/zenko/2015/10/2...or-ignores-indiscriminate-bombing/

Both views compared to...

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, April 2003:

Quote:

WASHINGTON — The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff defended the U.S. military's use of cluster bombs in Iraq, saying Friday that only 26 of the devices, which shower "bomblets" over a target, fell in civilian areas and that there was only one case of death or injury to a noncombatant.

Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, the nation's top military officer, did not provide details on that single case.

His remarks came amid persistent reports from Baghdad that children and other civilians are being killed or maimed by bomblets that did not explode when they hit their initial targets but did when people stumbled across them later.

"Coalition forces used cluster munitions in very specific cases against valid military targets and only when they deemed it was a military necessity," Myers said.

He said about 1,500 cluster bombs were used in the war and the 26 dropped in populated areas were aimed at military targets the Iraqi regime placed near civilians.
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/apr/26/news/war-cluster26
 
Acheron
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RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:07 pm

Well, if the US is that worried about cluster munition, they should walk the walk and sign the treaty banning them.

Until then, is all just hot air.
 
epten
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:12 am

RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:01 am

Are there any *independent* reports about the accuracy of the Russian ship-launched cruise missiles? You know, the ones launched from the Caspian sea?
 
WIederling
Posts: 9986
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 41):
So none of these shootdowns were intentional, the A300 was incompetence, right?

The perpetrator(s) got hung with medals. The Iran Air shoot down was intentional/welcome IMHO.
Murphy is an optimist
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9501
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:34 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 12):
Anyway, if this had happened on a Russian Airstrike in Syria we wouldn't hear the end of it...

Quote:
Doctors Without Borders Hospital Hit During U.S. Airstrike in Afghanistan, 19 Killed
http://gawker.com/doctors-without-bo...54502

Yes, there seems to be a deafening silence around that attack. And it was not hit during the air strike, but purposefully by the air strike, as the surrounding area was not hit, perfect targeting.

[Edited 2015-11-15 00:29:06]
 
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winterlight
Posts: 1432
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:57 am

RE: Russian Bombing Accuracy In Syria

Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:48 pm

At least Russia are doing something and not pretending like the US.
Question everything. Trust no-one.

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