vr773
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:10 am

Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:53 pm

keesje wrote:
German STH Helo Competition May Face One-Year Delay
http://aviationweek.com/defense/german-sth-helo-competition-may-face-one-year-delay

It seems very much political at this stage. Objectively an updated Chinook seems a very strong contender. But there's LM, Airbus Militairy, Airbus Helicopter, the French, Trumps priorities..


I think it's too early to say it's political - it's more procedural. The 2019 budget simply hasn't been finalized in time for the initially planned RFP submission.

I agree with you though that it may become political quickly as soon as the public learns that the only two products are American. In that case, the strategy will likely be to simply wait out the Trump administration. Technically, the current CH-53 can still fly until 2030 so the ministry doesn't feel as much pressure from the Bundeswehr yet.
 
texl1649
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:30 pm

I’d be fine with a roto forum but it’s a bit ironic for you to claim it will be apolitical as you’ve typed Trumps name more times than any other single poster by far about commercial and military topics.

Nothing in your aviation week link even indirectly makes it sound like politics is involved, it’s just Boeing pointing out how great their product and support are for this bid.
 
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keesje
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:42 pm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:51 pm

keesje wrote:


It is unfortunate but it is the sign of the time that many here in the states have learn to ignore what President Trump says. We just wait to see what he does and then try to react to it.
Foreign leaders should probably do the same. Just like any publicity seeking blowhard, if everyone ignore him, he may just go away, or at least change his strategy and be a little more diplomatic.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:08 am

keesje wrote:


It has nothing to do with Trump. The whole 2019 budget has not passed the parliament yet. So logically you can not sign contracts or even a fully binding biding process, when you need money contained in the 2019 budget.

https://de.reuters.com/article/deutschl ... EKCN1M621F
 
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seahawk
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:33 pm

And fresh from Berlin: "Next year's defense budget has now been established at 43.22 billion Euro, nearly a billion more than the original plan from May. More importantly, it includes authorization to commit to various major procurement projects extending over multiple fiscal years, including the future Heavy Transport Helicopter until 2031, multi-role Eurofighters to replace Tranche 1 aircraft until 2029, Multi-Purpose Combat Ship 180/F 126 until 2028, and German-Norwegian cooperation on the Type 212 CD submarine. If there are delays resulting in money not being used for those at particular points, it can be reshuffled into procurement of MEADS." International Press should have it soon.

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/vertei ... t-101.html
 
texl1649
Posts: 700
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:18 pm

Admittedly naive question: would the avic heavy lift helo have a shot here by any chance?

This program has changed over the last two years and admittedly may be years from a flyable model, but the growth to 42 tons sure seems to imply capability to carry the loads needed here. It should be at a fairly advanced state of engineering by now. I still think this is Sikorskys to lose though.

http://aviationweek.com/vertical-flight ... ceddcde16e
 
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N328KF
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Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:48 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Admittedly naive question: would the avic heavy lift helo have a shot here by any chance?

This program has changed over the last two years and admittedly may be years from a flyable model, but the growth to 42 tons sure seems to imply capability to carry the loads needed here. It should be at a fairly advanced state of engineering by now. I still think this is Sikorskys to lose though.

http://aviationweek.com/vertical-flight ... ceddcde16e


There are a variety of reasons why this won't happen, but setting aside issues of national security (the main reason it won't happen), Lockheed and Boeing are both essentially done with their work, with Boeing having a shipping and proven product. Risk and supply chain are nonissues for their offerings.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
mxaxai
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:10 pm

And now it's pretty much firm. 5,6 billion € ($ 6,4 billion) are allocated for the new helicopter until 2031.
https://www.aerobuzz.de/militar-news/hu ... h-starten/
 
texl1649
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 pm

Thx. I agree it would be an incredible long shot. I'd just like to see (emotionally) the sino Russian aviation sectors build out and see a competitive international market, long term. This really is a short term need though for Germany. It's costing them a fortune keeping only about a third of those birds mission capable.
 
Ozair
Posts: 3109
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:18 am

Looks like the heavy lift RW program continues. US$6.3 billion is a decent investment and should see quite a large order.

Timeline for German heavy-lift helo unaffected by budget ‘drama’

Germany’s delay in agreeing a defence budget should not impact the country’s efforts to procure a platform to replace its ageing CH-53G/GS/GA heavy-lift helicopters, an official from one of the two competing bidders told Jane’s on 27 November.

Speaking to Jane’s at the Berlin Security Conference, Frank Crisafulli, business development lead for heavy-lift helicopters at Sikorsky, said that the delay ahead of the 2019 defence budget being finally approved by the Bundestag budget committee earlier in November should have no real knock-on effect on the timeline for the Schwerer Transporthubschrauber (STH) heavy-lift helicopter procurement programme for the Luftwaffe.

“After the budget drama, the [EUR5.6 billion (USD6.3 billion)] funding has now been approved and we are very happy about that.

https://www.janes.com/article/84848/tim ... dget-drama

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