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vr773
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:10 am

Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:42 am

texl1649 wrote:
Yes they are ancient 70’s-era machines. Readiness per 2019 report is around 25% which is actually very good for the Luftwaffe of today.

“ Parts on PUMA are obtained via cannibalisation. Readiness ~25%.
-NH-90 helo readiness just a fraction of airframes (no details). Project 134 months behind schedule, 1.3 billion over budget.
-CH-53 readiness of 71 airframes at 25%. Tornado 93 airframes, less than 25% operational.
-A400M now at 31 aircraft. Despite some positive reports target of 7,200 flying hours missed, only 3.700 hrs done. 148 months behind FOC milestone, 1.6 billion over budget.
-Navy: Massive delays in maintenance b/c once hulls are in yard, the repair log explodes.”



Most of what you list is not Luftwaffe-related. But yes, those are the lowlights from the report. Change takes time especially with the increased number of activities abroad. There are some positives too: Eurofighter readiness has improved, size/headcount growth is on track, and % of women has increased in all branches.
 
bhill
Posts: 1778
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: RE: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:01 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Anytime you carry a helicopter in a cargo aircraft, it involves significant amounts of disassembly. Depending on the type and the size of both the aircraft and the helicopter, you are looking at anywhere from a few days to more than a week to reassemble and flight test the helicopter, plus you will need to have all of the tooling and equipment on hand to reassemble the helicopter.

Basically, its easier to fly the helicopter to where you need it to be and take refueling and rest stops along the way. For example, CH-147F's have been flown across Canada from Petawawa to Vancouver before, all done via ferrying the aircraft, rather than stuffing it into a C-17.


As the fixed wing transports can exceed the top speed of a rotor, and less stops, a commander can get the needed assets there faster and in one piece..without downtime for maintenance. As for "re-assembly" I am pretty sure that is factored into the mobilization/deployment orders. Perhaps Galaxy or any AF load masters might have a better idea of that.
Carpe Pices
 
Ozair
Posts: 5075
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Germany To Choose Between Chinook And CH-53K

Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:06 pm

Ozair wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
The Chinooks have a lot of stuff hanging/protruding from them nowadays, I imagine the T408 is somewhat inevitable for much of the US Army fleet at this point over the next 10 years, it’s hardly likely to be an orphan, imho.

I agree that a T408 is an eventuality for the US Army CH-47 fleet but for the Germans to start that process and be the sole operator for a period of time seems a larger risk than the benefits the T408 would provide. Better to have the US do all the work and then leverage the benefits for a much smaller cost later.

Interestingly Honeywell and the US Army are testing an upgraded T55 on the CH-47. This to me appears to be a better option than going for the T408. While the T55-GA-714C doesn’t generate the horsepower of the T408 it may be enough to keep the CH-47 with the Honeywell T55 and upgrade existing fleets with this new variant.

US Army to demonstrate its upgraded Chinook engine
The US Army is to demonstrate an uprated ‘next-generation’ version of the Honeywell T55-GA-714 engine on a Boeing CH-47 Chinook heavy-lift helicopter.

The engine manufacturer announced on 4 June that that it will test the 6,000 shp T55-GA-714C version of the 4,800 shp T55-GA-714A powerplant that already powers the Chinook, demonstrating the uprated engine’s 25% increase in power and 10% reduction in fuel consumption.



https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... bb6189208f

From a German competition perspective this engine option would certainly increase the capability of the aircraft as well as reduce long term sustainment costs.
 
texl1649
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:21 am

Interesting on the T55. Certainly not needing new structural work and more efficiency would be of interest, but I’m not sure Honeywell is yet to the phase where they can bid it, as the new compressor hasn’t been flown even yet.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5075
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:57 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Interesting on the T55. Certainly not needing new structural work and more efficiency would be of interest, but I’m not sure Honeywell is yet to the phase where they can bid it, as the new compressor hasn’t been flown even yet.

Sorry should have been clear, agree 100% this won't be an option offered to Germany but the German evaluation team will almost certainly consider the next 20 years of airframe life and potential upgrade path. For the CH-47 it looks like two engine options may be available or at least tested which bodes well for long term support and enhancement of the aircraft.
 
texl1649
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: German Heavy Lift Helicopter Replacement Program News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 pm

Absolutely agree the Germans will take into account the upgrade abilities forecast for the Chinook, though I'm not sure what their parameters in the evaluation are. I suspect the T408 or T55 up to 6000 shp will be appealing, but at the same time the Luftwaffe has a history of being...constrained for budgeted improved capabilities, to put it politely. Whatever they get will probably be what they are flying with for at least 3 decades.

It's still amazing that a Vertol design from (at its' core) 1957 is competing today at this level, to me, against basically an all new one, especially with, fundamentally, an upgraded/similar engine to what it came with. Likely, it's the favorite. The only similarly elderly aircraft of any kind in production today still winning military orders I can think of is the C-130, but maybe I am missing another.

With Boeing functionally locked out of FARA/FLRAA I expect some additional news over the next 5 years about offers to continue to improve/refine/profit from the Apache/Chinook, alike.

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