Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
727glasair
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:51 am

A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:30 am

It has been argued that the A-10 and it's fully loaded center rotating gun may be among the world's most deadly machines.

My close friend and neighbor is a former commander at Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson. Without supplied too much detail, he related to me that in the early 1990's he sat in on some high level meetings, where a nightmare scenario was discussed; how to best prevent a couple of A-Wall Warthog pilots from departing an in-progress training mission, for example, and heading for a football stadium, or the like, full with 80,000 people. They discussed that 2 low passes by 2 "hogs" could create disaster and havoc the likes of which were unimaginable......
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:33 am

I'd imagine 2 low passes by any 2 cannon armed fighters would cause disaster and havoc the likes of which were unimaginable. Especially if you're doing it against people in the open. That A-10 is nothing special in that regard.
 
727glasair
Topic Author
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:51 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:56 am

Greetings Zaphod.......I agree with your comment, except for the fact that with nearly 4,000 rounds per minute on that gun, the A-10 is indeed something special in that regard. Perhaps the Davis-Monthan guys were biased, but the reputation of the Warthog is in a league of its own.....
 
User avatar
ssteve
Posts: 1504
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:15 am

"A couple" is pretty inconceivable. Just as inconceivable as an entire KC-135 crew deciding to fly it into a building.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10296
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:15 am

I do not understand the point, any military personnel with access to heavy weaponry going rogue is a problem. The A-10 crews are not more likely to do so, nor is the plane more dangerous than most other fighters. The nightmare scenario does not look better for any other fighter or bomber carrying live ammunition for a training mission. To be fair I´d rather have the A-10 gun being used than a 1000lbs bomb.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26287
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:44 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 4):
any military personnel with access to heavy weaponry going rogue is a problem.

Same can be said for any civilian piloting an airliner. See Germanwings, Egypt Air, etc.

To me it's scarier since in today's age people seem more willing to kill themselves and take out others in the process. Also heavy usage of prescribed anti-depressants seem to have made things worse rather than better.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
bhill
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:51 pm

Unlike flying an airliner into a stadium?? Dead is dead..
Carpe Pices
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:37 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
To me it's scarier since in today's age people seem more willing to kill themselves and take out others in the process. Also heavy usage of prescribed anti-depressants seem to have made things worse rather than better.

That's as unlikely as it ever has been. It may seem more common as it's fresher in the mind. However it's still a very rare occurrence. Public transport vehicles also tend to carry many more people per vehicle than they ever did before. A modern 737 carries a hell of a lot more than it did when introduced and there are a lot more of them. Yet murder-suicides are still very rare.

And mental illness medication is a surprisingly trial and error field. As someone on Fluox it was made very clear that it could take multiple attempts to find a drug and dosage that would work. I personally know people that tried basically everything and ended up on straight lithium, which is sort of the nuclear weapon when it comes to mental illness medication. As for suicide it is known that for the first couple weeks the suicide attempt rate does increase before essentially dropping down to background noise. It's an unfortunate side effect of much of the medication that in it helps restore that energy before it helps get rid of those impulses, making you more likely to go through with them. Is there over prescription? Entirely plausible. But does that mean medication is the cause? No, look at society and its pressures first, then how we diagnose.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:16 am

What the what did I just read?
Chicks dig winglets.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5806
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:26 am

Yeah... What exactly is the point?

I can imagine the armed forces being slightly worried about soldiers going rogue with weapons because, well, they have quite of few of both...

If anything, a couple of A-10s, for all their mighty gun, would do less damage than one pilot going batshit crazy on a mission while carrying live bombs or A2G missiles.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:36 am

The alleged meeting that the thread starter referred to, may have been sparked by the Craig D. Button incident. That incident involved a DM pilot of an A-10 that disappeared with 4 live MK-82s. (Bombs were never found)

The board concluded he decided to end it all, and thankfully didn't involve any innocents. The poster said early 90s, the Button incident was in 97, but dates can get confused. However, I have my doubts whether the meeting ever really took place.

Read about the incident here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_D._Button
 
Max Q
Posts: 8973
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:16 am

Quoting 727glasair (Thread starter):
how to best prevent a couple of A-Wall Warthog pilots

The word you're looking for is AWOL   


It means 'absent without leave' and in the 'scenario' you portray its use makes no sense at all.


If the Pilots were AWOL, how would they even get on the base ?



Back to your video game..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:39 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 11):
If the Pilots were AWOL, how would they even get on the base ?

You sit and fly in the warthog while you do the transition to AWOL.
Murphy is an optimist
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:08 pm

Quoting RetiredWeasel (Reply 10):
However, I have my doubts whether the meeting ever really took place.

  
 
Woodreau
Posts: 2077
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:15 pm

How is that any different that a few bored missile silo officers, going bonkers and deciding to launch a Minuteman just because they're bored?

Or a boomer skipper from launching his nukes?

Or I could have gone bonkers anytime transiting between San Diego and Hawaii, and decided to do some live fire target SAM practice on the airliners flying the tracks to and from Hawaii, ala Iran Air 655. Ooops it's a mistake, I thought I was firing on simulated tracks after I gave the bridge the "real-World" picture and went into war-game simulation in CIC running AAW drills during the mid-watch. (which is a normal occurrence if the engineer isn't running engineering casualty drills during the midwatch as well)
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:59 pm

It's good to know that the usaf has no worries about a f35 being able to hurt anyone.... can't have too many dangerous warplanes than can drop bombs or shoot guns
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:46 pm

I tried to find a link without success, but back in the 1980s a mentally disturbed US Army soldier stole a bombed up M-60 tank of the quick reaction troop from his barracks in Manheim, Germany and ended up on a bridge across the river Neckar, with both ends blocked by policr and military with other tanks. He then managed to climb from the driver's seat into the turret basket and started pointing the gun at various houses. IIRC, US Army soldiers were getting ready to take out the tank with an AT missile, as they knew that it was full of live ammunition. Eventuall the crazy soldier climbed back into the driver's seat and drove the tank through the railings of the bridge, upon which it fell upside down into the river and the driver drowned.

Similarly in Northern Ireland during the Troubles in the 1970s, a British Army sergeant was forced to shoot one of his men, who had gone bonkers and started shooting at civilians.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: A-10 WartHog, Unauthorized Use Very Dangerous

Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:37 pm

Jan,

I remember that event! I would have been in my mid-teens. I seem to recall there was some question as to whether the deranged soldier might still be alive, as the tanks had O2 for use if chemical warfare came to be.

The killdozer event has a much bigger Internet presence...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer

Cheers?

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos