I saw here: https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/734393678735790081
that AF1 enroute to Vietnam took a very indirect route. Is this normal or is it political due to China?
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RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
Yes, I suppose they are avoiding China air space and the disputed man made Island. The visit to Vietnam itself is an affront to China so I suspect the Chinese quietly refused overflight and the US wanted to avoid antagonizing China.
bt
bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting bikerthai (Reply 1): |
If you don't know the area, suggest you google man made islands South China Sea and fix your inaccurate post up.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
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- kc135topboom
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RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
This routing obviously was to avoid any perceived Chinese claim to airspace over both the East China Sea and the South China Sea as much as possible. AF-1 went well south of the Chinese man-made islands in the South China Sea. It also avoided overflying the disputed islands claimed by China, Taiwan, and Japan in the East China Sea.
Obama does send US Navy warships to sail past and USAF aircraft to fly over the disputed areas on a regular bases just to let the Chinese know we will exercise freedom of navigation.
He just won't do it with AF-1.
Obama does send US Navy warships to sail past and USAF aircraft to fly over the disputed areas on a regular bases just to let the Chinese know we will exercise freedom of navigation.
He just won't do it with AF-1.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
Don't think Obama picked the route somehow !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
GGg
GGg
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 3): AF-1 went well south of the Chinese man-made islands in the South China Sea |
No they didn't, you need to know what you are talking about to make factual comments.
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 3): It also avoided overflying the disputed islands claimed by China, Taiwan, and Japan in the East China Sea. |
More likely avoiding the new Chinese ADIZ and flying further south via Naha.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting zeke (Reply 2): If you don't know the area, suggest you google man made islands South China Sea and fix your inaccurate post up. |
The map that I saw had the Island in the Paracels. Must be looking at the wrong island.
bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting bikerthai (Reply 6): The map that I saw had the Island in the Paracels. Must be looking at the wrong island. |
That is Woody Island its not that a big of a deal, it is actually close to China.
The one of greatest concern today is Fiery Cross Reef with a 3000+m runway. It has the ability to fire missile on any country, ship, or aircraft. The significance of this runway is it way outside any legitimate claim China can make in the South China Sea. We are expecting any time now for a ruling to come down against China in the Hague to say this is illegal, hand it over to the Philippines. China has already been doing the prep expectation management saying the UN has no jurisdiction and they will not recognize the ruling.
This is the same island that China said it would fire on a USN vessel that transited 12 nm away. It is also where you hear China making threats on 121.5 to shoot other aircraft down. People are going to get hurt.
More 3000m runways are being built.
http://amti.csis.org/new-imagery-release/
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting zeke (Reply 7): This is the same island that China said it would fire on a USN vessel that transited 12 nm away. It is also where you hear China making threats on 121.5 to shoot other aircraft down. People are going to get hurt. |
I would like to hear what Trump has in mind for this. Can we do anything?
If the US is acknowledging these fake ADIZ zones then I am very disappointed.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting Flighty (Reply 8): I would like to hear what Trump has in mind for this. |
Er, I wouldn't, I can guarantee whatever it is it's either, ignorant, idiotic, provocative
or most likely, all of the above.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
GGg
GGg
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting zeke (Reply 7): It is also where you hear China making threats on 121.5 to shoot other aircraft down. People are going to get hurt. |
During time of peace, this island works as a great political statement to the world and a solid outpost into the land of the barbarians. During times of war, like many outposts, it would be impossible to support and re-supply and would be sacrificed . . .
bt
[Edited 2016-05-26 06:45:13]
[Edited 2016-05-26 06:45:28]
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
That new U.S. Navy railgun could pretty much clear those man made islands right off the map once and for all. Problem solved. Nothing left for anyone to fight over, no nuclear fallout or contamination and wide open sea lanes permitting free passage for all (including China).
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting Flighty (Reply 13): So we should say nothing and the world surrenders the western Pacific to the Chinese triads / CCP? |
Er, who's doing that ?
Triad's ? do you know what that term means ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
GGg
GGg
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- kc135topboom
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RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting Flighty (Reply 8): I would like to hear what Trump has in mind for this. Can we do anything? |
| Quoting Max Q (Reply 9): Er, I wouldn't, I can guarantee whatever it is it's either, ignorant, idiotic, provocative or most likely, all of the above. |
| Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 10): I would add dangerous and reckless to that list. |
What the Chinese are doing in the South and East China Seas isn't dangerous too?
The US is China's biggest trading partner. A President Trump could put heavy tariffs, reduce trade, or stop trade altogether. Lord knows Obama would never do this.
China wants the oil and natural gas from the South China Sea, without having to buy it from Vietnam or the Philippines. This is a Chinese military take over of several countries UN recognized EECs.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting bikerthai (Reply 1): the US wanted to avoid antagonizing China. |
Obama is an appeaser so it fits they would go ahead and cow-tow the chi-com line on their fake islands.
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 17): What the Chinese are doing in the South and East China Seas isn't dangerous too? |
Yes, but they don't have a free press and an informed public to answer to.
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 17): Lord knows Obama would never do this. |
Your right, he never has the stomach to stand up to anybody, that is why the rest of the world loves him. They get their way.
If he had any guts, a 500 flyby over one of those islands would be a heck of a way to give the Chinese a message.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
Maybe the flight routing was part of an apology. Maybe an apology tour?
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting JohnM (Reply 19): Maybe the flight routing was part of an apology. Maybe an apology tour? |
maybe the flight routing was determined by the Secret Service as the best route to stay away from possible missile or aircraft interceptions.. The President does not pick the route, only the destination..
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 17): The US is China's biggest trading partner. A President Trump could put heavy tariffs, reduce trade, or stop trade altogether |
Okay, and how is that a good thing ?
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 18): Obama is an appeaser so it fits they would go ahead and cow-tow the chi-com line on their fake islands. |
Kindly explain this statement using facts.
| Quoting JohnM (Reply 19): Maybe the flight routing was part of an apology. Maybe an apology tour? |
During which part of the 'tour' did our President apologize for anything ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
GGg
GGg
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 17): The US is China's biggest trading partner. A President Trump could put heavy tariffs, reduce trade, or stop trade altogether. Lord knows Obama would never do this. |
Yes, because Obama's head is NOT planted firmly up his colon...
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 18): ...informed public... |
There's a joke in here somewhere...
| Quoting Max Q (Reply 21): Kindly explain this statement using facts. |
Indeed. The USA is pretty much the only country besides those directly affected by the 9 Dash Line that's doing *anything* at all.
Cheers
A
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting kc135topboom (Reply 17): A President Trump could put heavy tariffs, reduce trade, or stop trade altogether. |
If I remember right, the US had an oil embargo on Japan after it invaded China in 1936. One of the excuses for Japan to attack the US.
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 18): Obama is an appeaser so it fits they would go ahead and cow-tow the chi-com line on their fake islands. |
Keeping the lid on until the next president.
| Quoting L-188 (Reply 18): a 500 flyby over one of those islands would be a heck of a way to give the Chinese a message. |
That would just guarantee that one of the plane would experience a mechanical failure and have to land on the island.
Best way to deal with China is to diversify from it. Start moving your business elsewhere . . . to Vietnam for example.
But then again Walmart have too much at stake in China. Vietnam can't make enough cheap goods to fill it's stores.
Finally, need I remind those who want sable rattle that the blood that would be spilled would not be yours and mine, it would be our sons and daughters.
bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
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- pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
Just out of curiosity, how does one find the route of Air Force 1 or any military aircraft?
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
In the paper today China is planning on enforcing an ADIZ over most of the South China Sea.
With this they have just taken over most of the EEZ of a number of countries.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...dentification-zone-south-china-sea
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160601...h-china-defense-installations.html
With this they have just taken over most of the EEZ of a number of countries.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...dentification-zone-south-china-sea
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160601...h-china-defense-installations.html
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
A week before the new Taiwan president is sworn in. This is how real professional diplomacy works, not cowboy antics. A twofer to show the PRC it aint theirs and dont have a tantrum about Tsai cuz the 7th fleet is always nearby.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/05/11/2003645985
Now if only any US administration would sell tankers to Taiwan, they can patrol their Tai Ping island (the only naturally habitable island amongst all these lousy rocks) with their own F16s.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2016/05/11/2003645985
Now if only any US administration would sell tankers to Taiwan, they can patrol their Tai Ping island (the only naturally habitable island amongst all these lousy rocks) with their own F16s.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting zeke (Reply 25): In the paper today China is planning on enforcing an ADIZ over most of the South China Sea. With this they have just taken over most of the EEZ of a number of countries. |
IMO the Russia/Crimea model is in full effect here.
To talk of US/China was is unthinkable. Therefore, China can take everything they want from their weaker neighbors, so long as civilian casualties are minimal.
Plus, it has to be said, there is regime uncertainty in the USA. The current administration has an established, timid behavior pattern and will do nothing. At worst, we may demand a "summit" to "discuss" their conquest of sovereign territory.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): IMO the Russia/Crimea model is in full effect here. |
Not quite. While the countries in the area do have sizable Chinese populations, they don't seem in a hurry to declare a separate state in order to unify with mainland China.
At worst China will continue to reclaim Islands until they bump up to the borders of their neighbors. And if nobody starts a shooting war, then we will live with it. Not sure about the rest of America, I for one is fine with that.
bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
RE: Strange AF1 Routing To Vietnam
| Quoting bikerthai (Reply 28): Quoting Flighty (Reply 27): IMO the Russia/Crimea model is in full effect here. Not quite. While the countries in the area do have sizable Chinese populations, they don't seem in a hurry to declare a separate state in order to unify with mainland China. |
The Chinese in Hong Kong (mostly) and Taiwan (almost unanimously) want nothing to do with the PRC. The chances of the Chinese in ASEAN nations wanting to incite political change/violence to join the PRC is a zero chance probability. Unless mainland China becomes a true western liberal democracy at which point we will be living on Mars also.