Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Zainraw
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:59 pm

China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:06 am

China rolled out the first prototype of its indigenous AG600 amphibious aircraft, the largest of the kind in the world.Image
http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2016/07/avic-rolls-out-ag600-amphibian.html
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:11 am

No surprise here, copy airframe, copy engine, that Chinese for indigenous.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:54 am

zeke wrote:
No surprise here, copy airframe, copy engine, that Chinese for indigenous.


Sure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin_SH-5
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:20 am

WIederling wrote:
zeke wrote:
No surprise here, copy airframe, copy engine, that Chinese for indigenous.


Sure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin_SH-5


No this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShinMaywa_US-2
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:43 am

I am quite aware of what you wanted to indicate.
( though my guess is that this is not correct.)
US-1, SH-5, US-2, AG600 all do look rather similar.
US-2 has blown boundary layer control which the AG600 does not have.

SH-5 was designed as replacement for BE-6 amphibians:
http://survincity.com/2013/09/first-chi ... mphibious/
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8139
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:52 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if China ends up ordering a large number of them. After all, they do have a very long coastline to patrol.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14431
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:54 pm

The kind of machinery we av-geeks are waiting for.

:D

Congratulations to all Chinese staff involved for this milestone.

I saw the first drawings a decade ago.

It's significant different and bigger than all others.

Can't wait to see it doing 100 kts in the water!

:) :)
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
canyonblue17
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:22 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:34 pm

I thought with China building all those new islands with runways they wouldn't need these type of aircraft anymore
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
aw70
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:20 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:17 pm

Given the shenanigans with their airport, I think that the island government of St. Helena might be interested in a reasonably priced amphibian or two. :)
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14431
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:56 pm

When the program was launched, a decade ago, the Chinese were planning 60 that would be available for international relief operations.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14412
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:02 pm

I love flying boats, this one is ugly though.

You can't beat a Beriev Be-200 !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:26 am

Aesma wrote:
I love flying boats, this one is ugly though.


Just as ugly as its "grandfather" even with the extra engines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_P5M_Marlin
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:57 am

Zainraw wrote:
China rolled out the first prototype of its indigenous AG600 amphibious aircraft, the largest of the kind in the world.Image
http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2016/07/avic-rolls-out-ag600-amphibian.html

So not armed yet but how long till we see a militarized version with internal bomb bay and a decent surface search radar and/or MAD boom?
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:17 am

Internal bomb bay on a flying boat, you were kidding ?
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2635
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:11 am

Looks beautiful, in its peculiar and unique ugliness..
Never did a new design resembles past soviet crafts so much....
And I love how most Chinese aircrafts are a "pastiche" of random old aircrafts bits and pieces..
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:28 am

zeke wrote:
Internal bomb bay on a flying boat, you were kidding ?

It has the capacity to carry 12 tons of water to airdrop on fires, I see no reason that space couldn't be re-purposed to hold ordnance. The Short Sunderland carried weapons internally which could be winched out beneath the wings and the AG600 is 10 meters longer, has a 4m longer wingspan and a max payload double the Short Sunderland.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:21 pm

The water is not kept in the hull, it's in the fuselage.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:41 pm

zeke wrote:
The water is not kept in the hull, it's in the fuselage.

So? It doesn't matter where the water is kept. It signifies, as I stated, that there is internal space dedicated to carrying a payload which could be repurposed for military ordnance. It might take some novel engineering to deploy but the Chinese have shown enough ingenuity to figure something like that out.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:38 am

Still you have failed to realise in order to get ordnance from inside the fuselage it needs to go through the hull. You don't put big holes in the bottom of any hull.

This is really basic stuff, your position ignoring basic hydrodynamics reminds my of the classic Chinese loss of face.

They can wing mount ordnance which has been done even as far back as WW2 flying boats.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:39 am

zeke wrote:
Still you have failed to realise in order to get ordnance from inside the fuselage it needs to go through the hull. You don't put big holes in the bottom of any hull.

This is really basic stuff, your position ignoring basic hydrodynamics reminds my of the classic Chinese loss of face.

They can wing mount ordnance which has been done even as far back as WW2 flying boats.

I never claimed anything had to come out of the hull, in fact my reference to the Short Sunderland clearly shows I understood that they held ordnance internally and deployed via the wings.

Is it really so hard to just say you made a mistake and mis-interpreted what I had written? Instead, you have done your usual and again gone off on a tangent throwing veiled insults.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:44 am

"I never claimed anything had to come out of the hull, in fact my reference to the Short Sunderland clearly shows I understood that they held ordnance internally and deployed via the wings."

You stated in reply 13 "internal bomb bay", I pointed out that was a dumb idea on a floating hull. They say a picture is 1000 words.

Image
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:01 am

That is the place where the inverted belly fairing goes, right? ( what is that called : hunchback fairing ? :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
nbain1
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:49 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:46 pm

zeke wrote:
Still you have failed to realise in order to get ordnance from inside the fuselage it needs to go through the hull. You don't put big holes in the bottom of any hull.

This is really basic stuff, your position ignoring basic hydrodynamics reminds my of the classic Chinese loss of face.

They can wing mount ordnance which has been done even as far back as WW2 flying boats.



LOL ahhh your position of "You don't put big holes in the bottom of any hull".... reminds me that you are such a ding dong... man just chillll out

Image

Bombardier CL-415. Holes. Hull. Water buhbyeee...

Holes in hull... you are wrong srry partner
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:28 pm

nbain1 wrote:

Bombardier CL-415. Holes. Hull.

Sanity prevails...
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:32 am

That is no more a hole in the hull as much as the nose gear door. These "holes" you are pointing to are watertight sealed from the fuselage. The principle on how these tanks fill up is exactly why you don't have holes in the hull, if you have a hole in the hull water will be scooped into the fuselage filling it up beyond maximum weight causing it to crash or sink.

The CL415 needs to be flown very carefully, you let that nose wheel door hit the water at speed it will deform. Water at high speed exerts a lot of force.

Those pictures do not explain how an internal bomb bay would work, how to keep the fuselage sealed from water, how do you keep the ordance sealed from water. How do you discharge the ordance quickly in an emergency.

Also the photo of the wing body join demonstrates the other dumb idea floated (pardon the pun).

People are typing before engaging their brains and then try and defend the undefendable.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:20 am

Biggest seaplane.

There is a Martin Mars at Oshkosh right now that would dispute that. And it is for sale if you have 3-4 mil.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11231
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:05 am

Wow guys, just a simple Google brought up one of my favorite planes to never see production: The Martin SeaMaster

Many features of Martin's XB-51 bomber prototype were used, including an all-flying "T" tail and a rotating bomb bay—pneumatically sealed against seawater in the P6M.
[...]
aircraft were fitted with test versions of the full combat equipment suite and were used for bombing, mine laying and reconnaissance evaluations.
[...]
A buddy refueling drogue kit had also been developed to fit in the bomb bay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_P6M_SeaMaster

https://youtu.be/utCTIEB_V3E?t=67

Image
http://www.combatreform.org/p6mseamaster.htm

That's pretty big "hole in the hull" so apparently is is both feasible and doable,

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16120
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:04 am

What you are looking at there in the inside of a watertight compartment which rotated. If that would fail to rotate back there would be no way to recover the aircraft as it did not have wheels.

Needless to say, the project was scrapped in favour of submarines.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11231
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:42 pm

zeke wrote:
What you are looking at there in the inside of a watertight compartment which rotated. If that would fail to rotate back there would be no way to recover the aircraft as it did not have wheels.

Needless to say, the project was scrapped in favor of submarines.

And needless to say the project was not scrapped due to the issue you noted, indicating it was not an issue as you seem to imply. You had indicated that something could not go through the hull, that is not and was not the case. Now whether the AG600 could be modified or redesigned to do this I don't know of course, no one here does. But it would not surprise me that it could be made to do such.

With regards to the SeaMaster, as I understand the design, it was designed so that the racks could be ejected if needed to then allow the bay door to rotate and close. And if something happened to prevent that then the aircraft could set down on land just like any aircraft with a landing gear problem. And finally, if needed the crew could punch out.

It nearly made it to production but yes, the cost overruns were huge and submarine became a much better alternative to launch nukes, and then add in the growing carrier replacement cost and the seaplane bomber was dead on arrival.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Acheron
Posts: 1852
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:14 am

Re: China rolls out AG600 amphibious aircraft

Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:39 pm

zeke wrote:
The CL415 needs to be flown very carefully, you let that nose wheel door hit the water at speed it will deform. Water at high speed exerts a lot of force.
.

Image

I'm pretty sure the water is hitting the nose wheel door here...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos