Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:01 am

First Qatar, then Kuwait and now Egypt. Looks like Egypt may acquire the Eurofighter to add to the already complex mix of fighter aircraft they are operating amid continued reports Egypt have also signed for the Su-35.

If the Eurofighter deal does go ahead it will be a coup for Airbus and the Italian production line and what probably everyone was expecting was a lock for a Rafale top up order.

Italian government reportedly approves frigate sale to Egypt

...

The Italian media has reported that the frigate deal is part of a much larger package that includes another four frigates, 20 corvettes based on the Falaj class that Fincantieri built for the United Arab Emirates, 24 Eurofighter Typhoon multirole jets, 24 M346 jet trainers, and a surveillance satellite.

...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... 9c463737d5

I understand the political aspects of these procurements but it sure isn't a smart way to run an air force if you are Qatar, Kuwait, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia etc and don't harmonise your fighter fleets around one or two aircraft.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10417
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:28 pm

If you are always facing a risk of sanctions, it makes sense to have a diverse fleet.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13704
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:28 pm

There navy is also full of diversity, they have a French FREMM, now 2 Italian FREMMS, 6 MEKO A200 frigates ordered from Germany last year, another 4 frigates of undisclosed origin this year, corvettes from France, Germany and Spain, along with Russian, Chinese, US and UK built missile boats. It must be a logistical nightmare!
 
art
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:10 am

seahawk wrote:
If you are always facing a risk of sanctions, it makes sense to have a diverse fleet.


Sure but I cannot think of France being more likely to halt arms shipments to Egypt than the UK so what's the point of buying a roughly comparable fighter from a different source more likely to withold parts/support? I could see the argument for an additional type in the air force if it discharged some role far better than Rafale but I don't see where that would apply to Typhoon v Rafale.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:43 am

Looks like Qatar has expanded their order for the F-15QA from 36 to 48 aircraft. The DSCA announcement gave them clearance up to 72 so it appears they have ordered at least an additional twelve. Good news for USAF F-15EX aspirations as it keeps the F-15 production line in action for likely an additional year and may reduce the overall cost of the jet if orders are coming for two different customers.

US appears to confirm expanded F-15QA buy for Qatar

...

On 23 May the DoD disclosed that the US Army Corps of Engineers had contracted Doha-based company BAH-ICM JV to build facilities for the Qatar Emiri Air Force’s (QEAF’s) new fleet. In the notification, the department said; “The Foreign Military Sales (FMS) purchase of forty-eight (48) F-15QA aircraft improves the State of Qatar's capability to meet current and future enemy air-to-air and air-to-ground threats”. Janes noted this discrepancy in the numbers at the time, but as it was the first such occurrence this suggested that it may have been in error.

...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... -for-qatar
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:29 pm

Good news for Eurofighter fans with Spain committing to start the replacement of the EF-18 Hornets with additional Eurofighters. There was speculation that Spain could go for an F-35 acquisition that would support both the replacement of the Hornets and the Harriers in Naval service, now likely just the F-35B if Spain wants to continue with naval aviation. The intent is to manage the Eurofighter fleet out to replacement by FCAS.

Spain to receive new Eurofighters under Project 'Halcon'

Spain is set to receive new Eurofighter combat aircraft to augment its existing fleet and to begin the process of replacing its Boeing EF-18 Hornet fleet.

The proposed deal that the government is currently negotiating with Airbus, announced on 9 July, will involve an initial 20 Eurofighters being delivered to the Spanish Air Force (Ejército del Aire Español [EdAE]) to replace Hornets based on the Canary Islands.

The deal, which Airbus told Janes is expected to be signed in 2021, would be the first part of a wider plan to retire the service’s Hornets with the latest-standard Eurofighters between 2025 and 2030, dubbed Project ‘Halcon’ (Falcon).

...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... ect-halcon

Good news for Eurofighter production in general though. Three years ago things were looking bleak with all ordered partner aircraft in the final stages of delivery but now with German and Spanish orders production should continue into the late 2020s at least. Spain is also looking at an upgraded aircraft to their current fleet, I would expect with AESA and if they were smart for these Canary islands based aircraft some conformal fuel tanks. We may also see additional aircraft to replace Tranche 1 Eurofighters in service as well.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:32 pm

The UK has vetoed the sale of FA-50s to Argentina given the number of UK parts in the aircraft. You would expect this will prevent Argentina from acquiring most western fighter aircraft or advanced trainers given UK content. Certainly no Gripen, F-16, Eurofighter or Rafale. Perhaps Argentina will have to look further afield to Russian or Chinese aircraft if they really want to upgrade their air force.

UK bars South Korea from selling FA-50 to Argentina

The United Kingdom has effectively barred the sale of the FA-50 Fighting Eagle to Argentina, with the South Korean manufacturer informing the South American nation that it is unable to supply the light fighter and strike jet with its British-made parts.

In a letter dated 28 October, a senior official at Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) told Argentina’s ambassador to the Republic of Korea that the FA-50 cannot be exported due to the UK government’s arms embargo on the country. As KAI Senior Manager and Chief, International Business Strategy Department, Martin Chun, noted in his letter to Ambassador Alfredo Carlos Bascou, the FA-50 includes six major components that are sourced from the UK.

...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... -argentina

I wonder whether a T-7 may be an option in five years, not sure how much UK content is expected but irrespective you would expect pressure from the UK on the US not to export.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3860
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:04 am

A Canadian pilot training company has announced intentions to purchase KAI's FA-50 advanced jet trainers:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... ombat-jets

ITPS Canada Ltd, a commercial provider of tactical aviation training services, is poised to add the two-seat Korea Aerospace Industries FA-50 Fighting Eagle light combat aircraft to its roster, with a Memorandum of Understanding signed between the Canadian firm and the jet’s manufacturer. The relationship, which ITPS officially announced yesterday, is described as serving to “promote the FA-50 for tactical and adversary training,” but the company plans to eventually entirely replace its legacy Aero Vodochody L-39C Albatros jet trainer fleet with the type.

ITPS President Giorgio Clementi told The War Zone that his company plans to buy between eight and 12 examples of the South Korean FA-50 for the advanced training role. Like the Albatross, they will be based in Canada. As well as its five L-39Cs, the company also owns three Aero L-29 Delfins and two Hawker Hunters, all of which would potentially be superseded by the far more capable KA-50s.

“The KAI FA-50 is a great aircraft!” Clementi had said in an earlier company press release. “The aircraft’s performance, flying qualities, and mission capabilities make it the ideal platform for tactical and adversary training missions and a great fit for ITPS to replace our L-39 fleet. A new aircraft supported by the manufacturer and with the associated engineering and logistical support ensures reliable and cost-effective operations into the future.”


This company currently operates L-39 Albatross, L-29 Delfins, and Hawker Hunters in their fleet. They are looking at the FA-50 to replace all of their older jet trainers in service.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3860
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:22 am

It appears a number of ex-Israeli F-16's are being sold to a Top Aces, a Canadian defence contractor providing adversary training:

https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-isra ... 1001351073

The Ministry of Defense is hoping to sell 29 surplus fighter jets to the Montreal-based defense training contractor for $3-4 million each.

Israel's Ministry of Defense is conducted negotiations with Canadian company Top Aces, sources close to the matter have informed "Globes," for the sale of the Israel Air Force's IAF) 29 surplus F-16 fighter jets - with each jet selling for between $3 million and $4 million. General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcons were delivered to Israel in the early 1980s and over the past decade have been gradually phased out of service.


This will add to Top Aces' fleet of aircraft, which already include A-4 Skyhawk's and Alpha Jets.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:53 pm

The Philippine Armed Forces chief has made some comments suggesting that a decision on new fighter aircraft will be made and order signed before the current President steps down in 2022. The suggestion being taken in the media is that the F-16 is the favourite based on his comments below. Would be another blow to the Gripen if this were true as Saab was pretty clearly looking at the Philippines as a potential customer.

AFP chief sees new fighter jets for PH military before Duterte steps down

A deal that would bring multi-role fighter jets to the Philippine military, one of its big ticket projects, could be signed before President Rodrigo Duterte steps down in 2022, according to Armed Forces of the Philippines chief Gen. Gilbert Gapay on Monday (Dec. 7).

The defense department has yet to make public its choice between two types of fighter jets—Saab JAS 39 Gripen or Lockheed Martin F-16V–but Gapay dropped hints it could be the US-made F-16s. “Soon, before our President steps down, we will finally have multi-role fighters in the likes of the F-16 in our Air Force inventory,” said Gapay at a Laging Handa press briefing held online.

...

https://globalnation.inquirer.net/19256 ... steps-down

Crazy how well the F-16V seems to be tracking, I certainly thought its days were numbered a few years ago.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:42 am

Kuwait will be delayed in receiving their Bk 3 SHs ordered in 2018. Covid is cited as the reason for the delay. These SH will be a blend of Blk 2 and Blk 3 systems I expect due to some Blk 3 systems being US only. The article also mentions using a enhanced F414 engines but this is the first time I have seen that reported. That would be of interest given it was Kuwait who funded the improved thrust version of the F404 for the classic Hornet. I am also keen to see if Kuwait will maintain the same camo pattern on the new SH as they have had on the classic Hornets or if they will adopt the standard paint of other SH operators.

Covid-19 impacts Super Hornet timeline for Kuwait

Deliveries of 28 Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet combat aircraft to Kuwait have been delayed due to the ongoing Covid-19 health crisis, a company official told Janes on 14 January.

The 22 single-seat F/A-18Es and six twin-seat F/A-18Fs that were contracted in a government-to-government deal in June 2018 will be handed over to the US Navy (USN) later in 2021, instead of by the end of January as first intended.

“Covid has certainly impacted our business. We are working with the customer now on contract modifications to reflect our new timeline, and we will deliver the final Kuwait F/A-18 Super Hornet to the US Navy this summer [third quarter],” Boeing told Janes . The timeline for the USN’s final handover of the jets to the Kuwaiti Air Force has not been disclosed.

The USD2.7 billion deal for Kuwait (including radar warning receivers and weapons) involves Super Hornets built largely to the USN’s latest Block 3 standard (with some legacy Block 2 elements reportedly retained). Taking facets of Boeing’s previously touted International Roadmap and Advanced Super Hornet, the Block 3 includes upgrades to the Raytheon AN/APG-79 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar; an Elbit Systems large area display (LAD) ‘glass’ cockpit and next-generation avionics; an infrared search and track (IRST); ‘shoulder-mounted’ conformal fuel tanks (CFTs); Integrated Defensive Electronic Counter Measures (IDECM); and new General Electric F-414-400 enhanced engines. Further to the capability enhancements, the Block 3 airframe is extended from 6,000 hours to 9,000 hours.

...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... for-kuwait
 
744SPX
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:52 am

Ozair wrote:
Kuwait will be delayed in receiving their Bk 3 SHs ordered in 2018. Covid is cited as the reason for the delay. These SH will be a blend of Blk 2 and Blk 3 systems I expect due to some Blk 3 systems being US only. The article also mentions using a enhanced F414 engines but this is the first time I have seen that reported. That would be of interest given it was Kuwait who funded the improved thrust version of the F404 for the classic Hornet. I am also keen to see if Kuwait will maintain the same camo pattern on the new SH as they have had on the classic Hornets or if they will adopt the standard paint of other SH operators.

Covid-19 impacts Super Hornet timeline for Kuwait

Deliveries of 28 Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet combat aircraft to Kuwait have been delayed due to the ongoing Covid-19 health crisis, a company official told Janes on 14 January.

The 22 single-seat F/A-18Es and six twin-seat F/A-18Fs that were contracted in a government-to-government deal in June 2018 will be handed over to the US Navy (USN) later in 2021, instead of by the end of January as first intended.

“Covid has certainly impacted our business. We are working with the customer now on contract modifications to reflect our new timeline, and we will deliver the final Kuwait F/A-18 Super Hornet to the US Navy this summer [third quarter],” Boeing told Janes . The timeline for the USN’s final handover of the jets to the Kuwaiti Air Force has not been disclosed.

The USD2.7 billion deal for Kuwait (including radar warning receivers and weapons) involves Super Hornets built largely to the USN’s latest Block 3 standard (with some legacy Block 2 elements reportedly retained). Taking facets of Boeing’s previously touted International Roadmap and Advanced Super Hornet, the Block 3 includes upgrades to the Raytheon AN/APG-79 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar; an Elbit Systems large area display (LAD) ‘glass’ cockpit and next-generation avionics; an infrared search and track (IRST); ‘shoulder-mounted’ conformal fuel tanks (CFTs); Integrated Defensive Electronic Counter Measures (IDECM); and new General Electric F-414-400 enhanced engines. Further to the capability enhancements, the Block 3 airframe is extended from 6,000 hours to 9,000 hours.

...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... for-kuwait


That would be interesting. I'll be watching closely to see if the F414 EPE actually makes it to production. That could have a knock-on effect for the SH in other competitions.
 
Ozair
Posts: 5582
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:17 am

744SPX wrote:
That would be interesting. I'll be watching closely to see if the F414 EPE actually makes it to production. That could have a knock-on effect for the SH in other competitions.

Unfortunately I suspect it is just poor research by Janes (the irony if true given what they used to represent).

This article from 2019
General Electric To Supply 72 Engines For US Navy, Kuwaiti Super Hornet Jets
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25005 ... ornet_Jets

just lists the F414-GE-400 and the DSCA announcement, https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... ft-support also only lists the F414-GE-400. I suspect the writer has just google searched Blk 3 improvements and saw the enhanced engines without realising they were never funded. If a new version was funded it would almost certainly carry a different nomenclature.
 
User avatar
Challenger007
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:03 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:04 pm

Unfortunately, from time to time they try to mislead us with various non-existent facts. Perhaps some things were in development, but this does not mean that all of them went into production, that they can be purchased in the public domain or ordered anywhere.
 
744SPX
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:28 pm

Ozair wrote:
744SPX wrote:
That would be interesting. I'll be watching closely to see if the F414 EPE actually makes it to production. That could have a knock-on effect for the SH in other competitions.

Unfortunately I suspect it is just poor research by Janes (the irony if true given what they used to represent).

This article from 2019
General Electric To Supply 72 Engines For US Navy, Kuwaiti Super Hornet Jets
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25005 ... ornet_Jets

just lists the F414-GE-400 and the DSCA announcement, https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... ft-support also only lists the F414-GE-400. I suspect the writer has just google searched Blk 3 improvements and saw the enhanced engines without realising they were never funded. If a new version was funded it would almost certainly carry a different nomenclature.


So True. Also notice how in advertisements -even by GE itself- they call the F414-INS6 the "highest thrust variant of the F414" when in actuality it has the same thrust as the -400.
 
744SPX
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:19 pm

This is an interesting article, from AWST; talks about USAF ordering more F-16's and possibly cutting F-35 procurement to just over 1000...

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... tion-shake
 
art
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:05 pm

744SPX wrote:
This is an interesting article, from AWST; talks about USAF ordering more F-16's and possibly cutting F-35 procurement to just over 1000...

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... tion-shake

Might that have anything to do with the multiple defects/shortcomings still to be sorted with F-35?

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... -35-flaws/
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3860
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:44 pm

The Philippines has been approved for a potential sale of 12 F-16 Block 70/72's, along with Harpoon and Side winder II missiles:

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... 2-aircraft

WASHINGTON, June 24, 2021 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of the Philippines of F-16 Block 70/72 Aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $2.43 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of the Philippines has requested to buy ten (10) F-16C Block 70/72 aircraft; two (2) F-16D Block 70/72 aircraft; fifteen (15) F100-PW-229EEP engines or F110-GE-129D engines; fifteen (15) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG); fifteen (15) AN/APG-83 Advanced Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radars (SABR); fifteen (15) Modular Mission Computers 7000AH; fifteen (15) LN-260 Embedded GPS/INS (EGI) with SAASM and PPS; twenty-four (24) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-7/C-8 or equivalent; one (1) AIM-120 Guidance Section; forty-eight (48) LAU-129 missile launchers; three (3) KMU-572 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition (LJDAM) tail kits; six (6) Mk-82 500lb bombs; six (6) Mk-82 500lb Inert training bombs; six (6) FMU-152 or FMU-139 fuzes; six (6) Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP) or Litening ATP; fifteen (15) Multifunctional Information Display System Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS-JTRS) aircraft terminals, and; fifteen (15) M61A1 Vulcan Anti-Aircraft 20mm guns. Also included are AN/ARC-238 radios; Advanced Identification Friend or Foe with Combined Interrogator Transponder and Mode 5; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems II (JHMCS II) or Scorpion Hybrid Optical-based Inertial Tacker (HObIT); Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support; AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems (CMDS); Joint Mission Planning Systems (JMPS) or equivalent; AIM-120 CATM; LAU-118 launchers with Advanced Launcher Interface Computer (ALIC); LAU-117 missile launchers; DSU-38 Precision Laser Guided Sensor for LJDAM; Harpoon interface adapter kits; PGU-28 High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) ammunition; PGU-27 ammunition training rounds (non HEI); Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); ARD-446 impulse cartridges; ARD-863 impulse cartridges; BBU-36/B impulse cartridges; BBU-35/B impulse cartridges; MK-124 smoke flares; MJU-7/B Flare Cartridge L463; BRU‐61 Bomb Racks; BRU‐57 bomb racks; MAU‐12 bomb racks and TER‐9A triple ejection racks; weapons support, test equipment, and missile containers; chaff and flare; Night Vision Devices (NVD) and support equipment and spares; secure communications; cryptographic equipment; aircraft and personnel support and test equipment; integration and test; weapons, ammunition, pylons, launcher adaptors, weapons interfaces, fuel tanks, and attached hardware; travel pods, precision measurement equipment laboratory, calibration, and simulators; spare and repair parts, repair and return services; maps, publications, and technical documentation; studies and surveys; classified / unclassified software and software support; personnel training and training equipment; facilities and facility management, design and/or construction services; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $2.43 billion.


https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... i-missiles

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... l-missiles
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3860
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:04 pm

The IAI production line in Israel for F-16 wings has been reopened for the renewed demand for F-16's:
https://www.aero-mag.com/f-16-wing-production-08092021

An assembly line originally established in the 1980s for F-16 wings for Lockheed Martin has resumed production at Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI).

The line was recently reopened following increased worldwide demand for the F-16 Block 70/72. The company will produce F-16 wings that will be shipped to final assembly line in Greenville, South Carolina.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:59 pm

Featured on the front page today, Qatar's first Eurofighter lining up for its first flight. It suggests that the delivery scheduled for 2022 is on track.


Additionally, Kuwait's first Eurofighter also made its first flight last month. This program is currently facing delays of about 1 year,with the first delivery now scheduled for late 2021.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... now-flying
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:11 pm

seahawk wrote:
If you are always facing a risk of sanctions, it makes sense to have a diverse fleet.


It also makes sustainment, training, and integration a nightmare, and thus makes effective combat operations far more difficult.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:16 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If you are always facing a risk of sanctions, it makes sense to have a diverse fleet.


It also makes sustainment, training, and integration a nightmare, and thus makes effective combat operations far more difficult.

Not having access to spare parts and munitions as a result of sanctions also makes effective combat operations quite difficult.
 
FlapOperator
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:00 am

mxaxai wrote:
Not having access to spare parts and munitions as a result of sanctions also makes effective combat operations quite difficult.


I'd argue the Iranians and South Africans did it.

Frankly, a well-trained force prior to sanctions beats a half-baked one. In both cases, the South African and Iranians benefited from a single philosophy and knowledge they were able to sustain, than pell-mell flying club that looks good on paper.
 
User avatar
kitplane01
Posts: 2107
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:30 am

FlapOperator wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Not having access to spare parts and munitions as a result of sanctions also makes effective combat operations quite difficult.


I'd argue the Iranians and South Africans did it.

Frankly, a well-trained force prior to sanctions beats a half-baked one. In both cases, the South African and Iranians benefited from a single philosophy and knowledge they were able to sustain, than pell-mell flying club that looks good on paper.


They did .. in the 1970s and 1980s. Hard to imagine keeping a Rafale or F-35 flying today without factory support (and software updates). Has any nations this decade kept planes flying without factory support? There are a few Iranian F-14s, and some Iranian F-4s, but I *think* that's the list and those are 1970s and 1980s aircraft.

I cannot even think of a nation that's even *tried* to keep a modern fighter operating without factory support.
 
jouy31
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 4:59 pm

Re: Future of western fighter production lines

Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:45 am

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-12-03/

UAE order for 80 Rafale has been signed :-)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos