Breaking News:
A Tweet from President Elect Trump about the new Air Force One: "Cancel order!"

Donald J. Trump – Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump

Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!
5:52 AM - 6 Dec 2016


https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTr ... gr%5Etweet

And a corresponding article:

Shares of Boeing slid 1 percent in premarket trade Tuesday after President-elect Donald Trump said the cost of building a new Air Force One plane was too much.

On Tuesday, Trump threatened to cancel its order from Boeing of a new 747 Air Force One, which would be used for future presidents. He said the cost is more than $4 billion.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/06/boeing-s ... ntrol.html

A lot of hot air, me thinks.

Who knows what is and is not hot air yet? I wouldn't be surprised if Trump doesn't just defer to the Air Force's bureaucracy about the specifcations. Trump actually owns his own 757. He's not a novice about the technical issues about VIP aircraft. I wouldn't be too surprised if the 4 holer requirement were reevaluated.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Breaking News:
A Tweet from President Elect Trump about the new Air Force One: "Cancel order!"

Donald J. Trump – Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump

Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!
5:52 AM - 6 Dec 2016


https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTr ... gr%5Etweet

The new Air Force One will not see the skies before some time in 2024.
Donald Trump will no longer be the US President by then.

Even he gets a second term he will make very little use of the new aircraft.

They need the new aircraft. Air Frames are not eternal. They have a limited number of cycles.

Unless he thinks there will be no other US President after him?

Well $4 billion is peanuts compared to the $125 billion the Pentagon flushed down the toilet

Pentagon buried study that found $125 billion in wasteful spending

FFS, stop tweeting already Donnie!

MadameConcorde wrote:

The new Air Force One will not see the skies before some time in 2024.
Donald Trump will no longer be the US President by then.

Doesn't really matter - if the order is cancelled, Boeing will likely have to close the line before another president could re-order 748s.

The alternatives would be a 787, 777 or Airbus model....and would the U.S. honestly go with a 'foreign' product? None of whom would be much cheaper to customize than a 747...not to mention the reduced cabin space of any others, other than the A380, might make them not sufficient for the U.S. military's/presidential's needs.

IL-96 perhaps?

He is absolutely right. Prosecutions should begin. $4 billion is major financial misconduct. We send people to prison in the lower / nongovernment classes for far less.

You can get a fantastic presidential fleet for $500 million That's a fact - unwilling to debate it.

Same for the helicopters issue - with which Donald is intimately familiar, as an owner of multiple VIP helicopters himself. That program was a major felony.

This is an easy way for DT to go aircraft shopping (which he loves to do) AND claim roughly $10 billion in combined cost savings. Quite easy for him to do - and indeed it is his job.

Bricktop wrote:

FFS, stop tweeting already Donnie!

Donald Trump should have no say about the new Air Force One.... or does he?

He is now 70. He will be 74 in 2020 that is if he completes his first term.
He will be 78 in 2024 - the year when the new Air Force One will take to the skies. - if there are no delays.

He will get little use of the new aircraft - or none at all.

Flighty wrote:

He is absolutely right. Prosecutions should begin. $4 billion is major financial misconduct. We send people to prison in the lower / nongovernment classes for far less.

You can get a fantastic presidential fleet for $500 million That's a fact - unwilling to debate it.

Same for the helicopters issue - with which Donald is intimately familiar, as an owner of multiple VIP helicopters himself. That program was a major felony.

This is an easy way for DT to go aircraft shopping (which he loves to do) AND claim roughly $10 billion in combined cost savings. Quite easy for him to do - and indeed it is his job.

A stock 747-8 costs around $379 million a copy. And when you add to it the costs associated with refitting it as per Air Force specification, I really doubt you can get a capable presidential fleet for $500 million.

VIP private jet yes, but Air Force One, I don't think so.

I'm thinking the USAF will end up taking the 3 748I white tails currently
in storage instead of new build frames, in the interest of saving money.

MadameConcorde wrote:

Donald Trump should have no say about the new Air Force One.... or does he?

King Donnie clearly thinks he does.

MadameConcorde wrote:

He is now 70. He will be 74 in 2020 that is if he completes his first term.
He will be 78 in 2024 - the year when the new Air Force One will take to the skies. - if there are no delays.

He will get little use of the new aircraft - or none at all.

All the more reason he's likely to actually pull the plug, IMHO.

MadameConcorde wrote:

He will get little use of the new aircraft - or none at all.

Unlike you, who going by your comment about him finishing his first term seems to have nothing but contempt for him, Trump realizes that as President he is among those responsible for the budget, about which he seems to care more than about getting to use the plane.

Saying he should not care about this spending excess because he won't ever ride the plane is absolutely beyond the pale, you could argue against almost all long term military spending that way (Ford class anyone?).

MadameConcorde wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Breaking News:
A Tweet from President Elect Trump about the new Air Force One: "Cancel order!"

Donald J. Trump – Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump

Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!
5:52 AM - 6 Dec 2016


https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTr ... gr%5Etweet

The new Air Force One will not see the skies before some time in 2024.
Donald Trump will no longer be the US President by then.

Even he gets a second term he will make very little use of the new aircraft.

They need the new aircraft. Air Frames are not eternal. They have a limited number of cycles.

Unless he thinks there will be no other US President after him?

The VC-25 fleet is young in terms of cycles. They mostly sit in a hanger compared to commercial 747's flown by airlines. Is it really necessary to buy 747's to replace the VC-25 fleet? Why not a 777 or 787?

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Flighty wrote:

He is absolutely right. Prosecutions should begin. $4 billion is major financial misconduct. We send people to prison in the lower / nongovernment classes for far less.

You can get a fantastic presidential fleet for $500 million That's a fact - unwilling to debate it.

Same for the helicopters issue - with which Donald is intimately familiar, as an owner of multiple VIP helicopters himself. That program was a major felony.

This is an easy way for DT to go aircraft shopping (which he loves to do) AND claim roughly $10 billion in combined cost savings. Quite easy for him to do - and indeed it is his job.

A stock 747-8 costs around $379 million a copy. And when you add to it the costs associated with refitting it as per Air Force specification, I really doubt you can get a capable presidential fleet for $500 million.

VIP private jet yes, but Air Force One, I don't think so.

No, I really don't think a stock 748 costs more than about $100m. And, the AF1 job can be done by a 787-9. Slight tweak to the specs perhaps. Various nuclear powers fly their president around without a quad jet.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

MadameConcorde wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Breaking News:
A Tweet from President Elect Trump about the new Air Force One: "Cancel order!"

Donald J. Trump – Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump

Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!
5:52 AM - 6 Dec 2016


https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTr ... gr%5Etweet

The new Air Force One will not see the skies before some time in 2024.
Donald Trump will no longer be the US President by then.

Even he gets a second term he will make very little use of the new aircraft.

They need the new aircraft. Air Frames are not eternal. They have a limited number of cycles.

Unless he thinks there will be no other US President after him?

The VC-25 fleet is young in terms of cycles. They mostly sit in a hanger compared to commercial 747's flown by airlines. Is it really necessary to buy 747's to replace the VC-25 fleet? Why not a 777 or 787?

Space seems to be a issue, the A380 were actually being considered as they're larger if i remembered correctly

[list=][/list]

Flighty wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Flighty wrote:

He is absolutely right. Prosecutions should begin. $4 billion is major financial misconduct. We send people to prison in the lower / nongovernment classes for far less.

You can get a fantastic presidential fleet for $500 million That's a fact - unwilling to debate it.

Same for the helicopters issue - with which Donald is intimately familiar, as an owner of multiple VIP helicopters himself. That program was a major felony.

This is an easy way for DT to go aircraft shopping (which he loves to do) AND claim roughly $10 billion in combined cost savings. Quite easy for him to do - and indeed it is his job.

A stock 747-8 costs around $379 million a copy. And when you add to it the costs associated with refitting it as per Air Force specification, I really doubt you can get a capable presidential fleet for $500 million.

VIP private jet yes, but Air Force One, I don't think so.

No, I really don't think a stock 748 costs more than about $100m.

100M can't even get you a 320neo

Dominion301 wrote:

The alternatives would be a 787, 777 or Airbus model....and would the U.S. honestly go with a 'foreign' product? None of whom would be much cheaper to customize than a 747...not to mention the reduced cabin space of any others, other than the A380, might make them not sufficient for the U.S. military's/presidential's needs.

The President can't afford to have a plane that can use so few airports as the A380.

c933103 wrote:

[list=][/list]

Flighty wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

A stock 747-8 costs around $379 million a copy. And when you add to it the costs associated with refitting it as per Air Force specification, I really doubt you can get a capable presidential fleet for $500 million.

VIP private jet yes, but Air Force One, I don't think so.

No, I really don't think a stock 748 costs more than about $100m.

100M can't even get you a 320neo

List price has nothing to do with the actual price of aircraft. You can get an A320 neo for probably 40m. And that is a highly in demand aircraft, which the 748 absolutely is not.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The VC-25 fleet is young in terms of cycles. They mostly sit in a hanger compared to commercial 747's flown by airlines. Is it really necessary to buy 747's to replace the VC-25 fleet? Why not a 777 or 787?

Thank you for your insight.
Good question.

MadameConcorde wrote:

[n.


Unless he thinks there will be no other US President after him?

Yes, he probably does

Actually, DT could help out Boeing by asking the USAF to order a couple of the last 77W frames
off the line. heck, Japan downguaged from a 744 to a 77W, I'm sure the USAF could do the same.

I always wondered why do US need a 747 style AF1? most other head of stats fly some second hand airplanes adjusted...

Only Saudi Arabia prince seems to be able to spend money without thought of the tax payer.

President elect is proving himself to be a bit irrational. He saved 800 jobs at Carrier while outsourcing over a thousand and getting a tax break for Carrier, and now he wants to cancel a contract for two planes that met the requirements of the Air Force and office specs,Planes that have not had a chance to be fully designed and built yet, and to incur the cost overruns that we all expect. This cancellation will cost more money for the US, as many folks will not have jobs generated by the requirements of this program. Maybe there is more to it that Trump's ignorant non fact based tweet, but he should explain himself a bit better in an actual policy statement.

Flighty wrote:

c933103 wrote:

[list=][/list]

Flighty wrote:

No, I really don't think a stock 748 costs more than about $100m.

100M can't even get you a 320neo

List price has nothing to do with the actual price of aircraft. You can get an A320 neo for probably 40m. And that is a highly in demand aircraft, which the 748 absolutely is not.

According to airlines, a320 neos are selling with a premium.

I don't think the 4B figure is accurate. My understanding is it is more like $2B for two aircraft--not one--with spare engines, parts, training etc. There are added expense of defense systems, refueling systems, secret hush-hush systems that probably drive up the price even more. As we saw in 911 with President Bush flying around with a very flawed communication system virtually out of touch with Washington, you need a lot of extra equipment for The President. It is not just an executive jet.

MadameConcorde wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The VC-25 fleet is young in terms of cycles. They mostly sit in a hanger compared to commercial 747's flown by airlines. Is it really necessary to buy 747's to replace the VC-25 fleet? Why not a 777 or 787?

Thank you for your insight.
Good question.

same reason why Trump's 727 is sold

If anything, the USAF should cut down the special equipment costs. 4.000.000.000 $ is incredibly big money for two aircraft. And even if Trump would be able to cancel an almost done deal and order a smaller plane instead, it would save much cost.

c933103 wrote:

Flighty wrote:

c933103 wrote:

[list=][/list]
100M can't even get you a 320neo

List price has nothing to do with the actual price of aircraft. You can get an A320 neo for probably 40m. And that is a highly in demand aircraft, which the 748 absolutely is not.

According to airlines, a320 neos are selling with a premium.

A premium to 737MAX I'm sure, but not a premium to list...

Sooner787 wrote:

Actually, DT could help out Boeing by asking the USAF to order a couple of the last 77W frames
off the line. heck, Japan downguaged from a 744 to a 77W, I'm sure the USAF could do the same.

A 77W AF1 would be old, almost obsolete tech already once it would carry a president for the first time. And its not the standard airframe cost that matters here, its the special requirements of the USAF that make AF1 expensive. No matter what plane it is.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

The alternatives would be a 787, 777 or Airbus model....and would the U.S. honestly go with a 'foreign' product? None of whom would be much cheaper to customize than a 747...not to mention the reduced cabin space of any others, other than the A380, might make them not sufficient for the U.S. military's/presidential's needs.

The President can't afford to have a plane that can use so few airports as the A380.

Oh GOD not this again!

The A380 can go anywhere a 747 or 777 can go. In fact it uses less runway and has less pavement loading than either.

Did you not see the visit it made to Oshkosh?

Just don't clip a building with the wingtip while you're taxiing and you're good to go.

na wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Actually, DT could help out Boeing by asking the USAF to order a couple of the last 77W frames
off the line. heck, Japan downguaged from a 744 to a 77W, I'm sure the USAF could do the same.

A 77W AF1 would be old, almost obsolete tech already once it would carry a president for the first time. And its not the standard airframe cost that matters here, its the special requirements of the USAF that make AF1 expensive. No matter what plane it is.

It's also the ability to maintain the systems over time. The 747. The 747-8 will be lucky if it is still in production after the VC-25 replacements are delivered. How much will it cost to mainain the new Air Force One's in 2054 or 2060? There were lots more classic and 400 series 747's built than there will be 8's. The 777X and 787 programs will be in production much longer.

Those of you bringing up Airbus neglect the fact that when the AF1 replacement RFP went out, Airbus declined to respond. They're not interested in wasting the time and money putting together a proposal for a program when they're unlikely to be the winning bidder.

As far as our illustrious "president elect," he's simply shooting off his mouth without knowing what he's talking about, as usual. The VC-25s are 26 years old and will not be flying forever. The technology on board is obsolete and the planes themselves are no longer produced or supported by Boeing. As others have noted, Trump won't even be POTUS when the aircraft are put in service, and by the time that happens the VC-25s will be 30 years old. Part of the President's job is to have people in place to advise him on things, and the Air Force has advised that the VC-25s need to be replaced.

Reasonable choices would be 787 or 777-9. At least those will in production when the first AF1 is delivered.

This is only a negotiating/publicity tactic.

He's going to make noise about reducing the price of the order from $4B to $2B, when in reality the order is projected to be for $1.5B.

In the end he's going to sell the idea that he saved $2B when in reality he's going to spend $500M more than projected (those Trump® brand gold plated brass faucets are expensive).

na wrote:

A 77W AF1 would be old, almost obsolete tech already once it would carry a president for the first time. And its not the standard airframe cost that matters here, its the special requirements of the USAF that make AF1 expensive. No matter what plane it is.

You realize the USAF is taking in loads of 767 based tanker aircraft in the coming years? And still fly C-5s / B-52s etc.?

The "old, almost obsolete tech"-argument disqualifies the 748 just as much as a 77W. For a jet that gets used so little, the latest and greatest fuel burn is completely unimportant. Considering that it's very likely that 2017 built 77W's will outlive 748's at the commercial airlines, I think that continued supply of spares is more likely with the 777 versus the 748 (that's even disregarding commonality with 778/9).

The 777 could be a good alternative. More likely is that this tweet will make the USAF look at whether they really need to tick every single option in the list and maybe Boeing to come up with a discount on the bare frame.

He has a point in terms of the pure need for a new AF1. The existing modified 742s have a lot of life left in them cycle-wise. The real question is whether the Secret Service and the government are willing to allow future presidents to fly in twin jets. The want a quad due to the safety inherent in that design in case of an engine loss, and the ability to get out of a potential hot spot quickly even down an engine, among other reasons. At some point, the 748 line will close and the ability to buy an American-made quad will similarly disappear.

What I think is happening here is that The Donald is firing several calculated shots across some bows, trying to shake things up in a Nixonian way. There will be a new AF1 based upon the 748, but he's trying to lay the groundwork for cost cutting, which does need to happen in the US Government (check out the recent Pentagon budget paper that was buried for an example). Whether there is actually anything to cut, I know not. The call from Taiwan's president was another preemptive shot, signalling that there's a new sheriff in town. This is just more of the same.

StrandedAtMKG wrote:

Those of you bringing up Airbus neglect the fact that when the AF1 replacement RFP went out, Airbus declined to respond. They're not interested in wasting the time and money putting together a proposal for a program when they're unlikely to be the winning bidder.

As far as our illustrious "president elect," he's simply shooting off his mouth without knowing what he's talking about, as usual. The VC-25s are 26 years old and will not be flying forever. The technology on board is obsolete and the planes themselves are no longer produced or supported by Boeing. As others have noted, Trump won't even be POTUS when the aircraft are put in service, and by the time that happens the VC-25s will be 30 years old. Part of the President's job is to have people in place to advise him on things, and the Air Force has advised that the VC-25s need to be replaced.

You bring up good points. Airbus was more commenting on the thoroughly broken US procurement system, and the fact that Boeing will be offered larded up cost-plus contract no matter what Airbus does. With DT in the mix, the game for this changes and Airbus may play.

DT loves buying airplanes and, to his credit, he does have an eye for cost. This is a giant change vs the existing practice of handing out thousands of jobs in a miasma of graft. There will still be graft, but a few million to DT's kids will not compare to the hundreds of billions annually stolen by the Beltway elite. I'm just saying - these are my friends - that is what they do.

SomebodyInTLS wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

The alternatives would be a 787, 777 or Airbus model....and would the U.S. honestly go with a 'foreign' product? None of whom would be much cheaper to customize than a 747...not to mention the reduced cabin space of any others, other than the A380, might make them not sufficient for the U.S. military's/presidential's needs.

The President can't afford to have a plane that can use so few airports as the A380.

Oh GOD not this again!

The A380 can go anywhere a 747 or 777 can go. In fact it uses less runway and has less pavement loading than either.

Did you not see the visit it made to Oshkosh?

Just don't clip a building with the wingtip while you're taxiing and you're good to go.

Okay - once the aircraft lands, how do the people get out? Can it refuel?

Aptivaboy wrote:

He has a point in terms of the pure need for a new AF1. The existing modified 742s have a lot of life left in them cycle-wise. The real question is whether the Secret Service and the government are willing to allow future presidents to fly in twin jets. The want a quad due to the safety inherent in that design in case of an engine loss, and the ability to get out of a potential hot spot quickly even down an engine, among other reasons. At some point, the 748 line will close and the ability to buy an American-made quad will similarly disappear.

What I think is happening here is that The Donald is firing several calculated shots across some bows, trying to shake things up in a Nixonian way. There will be a new AF1 based upon the 748, but he's trying to lay the groundwork for cost cutting, which does need to happen in the US Government (check out the recent Pentagon budget paper that was buried for an example). Whether there is actually anything to cut, I know not. The call from Taiwan's president was another preemptive shot, signalling that there's a new sheriff in town. This is just more of the same.

A pleasure to read this post. Yes, the #1 military threat to the US is not terrorism, but rather its unsustainable military financial position, Sec Robert Gates direct quote. The key is better financial analysis, not only better fighting and weapons. Those become irrelevant if you are broke. And most countries in this world are broke. To run an air force requires sharp pencils and a lot of money. And we have a lot of money - but not infinite. We are losing the skill set to maintain the status quo level of military might, in part because of the issue DT is bringing up (simplistically but still correctly).

na wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Actually, DT could help out Boeing by asking the USAF to order a couple of the last 77W frames
off the line. heck, Japan downguaged from a 744 to a 77W, I'm sure the USAF could do the same.

A 77W AF1 would be old, almost obsolete tech already once it would carry a president for the first time. And its not the standard airframe cost that matters here, its the special requirements of the USAF that make AF1 expensive. No matter what plane it is.

Okay, then order a 787-9 BBJ and tell the USAF to make it work.
It would certainly have enough electrical power to handle all the
comm and computer gear.

A 789 would have less floor space then the VC-25A, but they could
save alot of room by eliminating the seats that are used for the White House
press corp.

I sure DT would say they can charter their own jets.

KrustyTheKlown wrote:

This is only a negotiating/publicity tactic.

He's going to make noise about reducing the price of the order from $4B to $2B, when in reality the order is projected to be for $1.5B.

In the end he's going to sell the idea that he saved $2B when in reality he's going to spend $500M more than projected (those Trump® brand gold plated brass faucets are expensive).

That being said, Joke time:

- No Boeing you listen: I already have a 757 and that's 10 better than a 747, Okay?

- We need to stop being the stupid country: Restart the 757 line!!!!!

- Okay Boeing, I'll order you stupid plane but get rid of the press seats and install a tweet deck.

- It's going to be a big, beautiful wide-body (BBW) okay, and Boeing is going to pay for it.

- So you are telling me it doesn't have an escape pod like in that Harrison Ford movie? this is a disaster.

Flighty wrote:

.....DT loves buying airplanes and, to his credit, he does have an eye for cost. ....

Then he must have developed that 'eye' in the last 20 years. His fiasco purchase of the Trump Shuttle and his subsequent running it into the ground because of ineptness is legendary among former T. shuttle pilots. At one point, he told the shuttle execs to put only 2 pilots in the 727 cockpit (to compete with Southwest's 737s) having no clue that the plane couldn't be flown that way.

Many people are saying that the 787 or 777 would be a good replacement too and fit the role well but smaller in which I agree, but theres also the aspects that the 747 has that no other airplane has in history. The 747 has always been the icon of aviation, "Queen of the Skies", and for the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet thats somewhat a big deal. When the USAF first got the VC-25s, no other nation had a plane even close for VP travel, and the plane makes statements wherever it goes. Combine this aspect with four engines for reliability, the 748 is the ideal plane for replacement in a politician's mind. I would think that everyone would agree that seeing the leader of a nation come in on a 748 would make a much larger impact than a 789 or 77W. But what I'm more concerned about is why 3 planes? They are so well maintained and cared for you would almost never need a 3rd. Already flying both VC-25s together with PONTUS is somewhat a waste IMO, and have a 3rd backup on top of that? And the price of the program of $4 billion, how the hell is that number thrown around? 3 frames would probably cost around $450-700 million (Boeing isn't selling 747s anywhere near list price, and if the USAF is paying list price then something is wrong), and adding a billion or so for modifications would bring it somewhere around $2 billion for the project, which I could settle for.

StrandedAtMKG wrote:

Those of you bringing up Airbus neglect the fact that when the AF1 replacement RFP went out, Airbus declined to respond. They're not interested in wasting the time and money putting together a proposal for a program when they're unlikely to be the winning bidder.

As far as our illustrious "president elect," he's simply shooting off his mouth without knowing what he's talking about, as usual. The VC-25s are 26 years old and will not be flying forever. The technology on board is obsolete and the planes themselves are no longer produced or supported by Boeing. As others have noted, Trump won't even be POTUS when the aircraft are put in service, and by the time that happens the VC-25s will be 30 years old. Part of the President's job is to have people in place to advise him on things, and the Air Force has advised that the VC-25s need to be replaced.

Then why 748i.

It will be just as obsolete when it enter services.

$4B is way excessive.

I see no issue in cancel and downgrade.

RetiredWeasel wrote:

Flighty wrote:

.....DT loves buying airplanes and, to his credit, he does have an eye for cost. ....

Then he must have developed that 'eye' in the last 20 years. His fiasco purchase of the Trump Shuttle and his subsequent running it into the ground because of ineptness is legendary among former T. shuttle pilots. At one point, he told the shuttle execs to put only 2 pilots in the 727 cockpit (to compete with Southwest's 737s) having no clue that the plane couldn't be flown that way.

Good point and he is not an aviation professional. He is at best a real estate professional maybe. But that is still good enough to do a decent job on his personal fleet, which has a direct analogy to a presidential fleet.

He should not buy used aircraft for a POTUS role but he understands not getting soaked for a billion. He has been there (unlike most of these stuffed shirts). He knows what it is like to cheat people for a billion, AND be cheated for a billion. To me his cheap words ring true here.

[quote="StrandedAtMKG"]Those of you bringing up Airbus neglect the fact that when the AF1 replacement RFP went out, Airbus declined to respond. They're not interested in wasting the time and money putting together a proposal for a program when they're unlikely to be the winning bidder.

There was comments that the RFP required the planes to be assembled in USA which automatically makes the choices of manufacturers more limited.
Now Airbus could offer an A321 made in Alabama

Flighty wrote:

He is absolutely right. Prosecutions should begin. $4 billion is major financial misconduct. We send people to prison in the lower / nongovernment classes for far less.

You can get a fantastic presidential fleet for $500 million That's a fact - unwilling to debate it.

Same for the helicopters issue - with which Donald is intimately familiar, as an owner of multiple VIP helicopters himself. That program was a major felony.

This is an easy way for DT to go aircraft shopping (which he loves to do) AND claim roughly $10 billion in combined cost savings. Quite easy for him to do - and indeed it is his job.

I hope you feel as strong about the F-35 and how we can get a fighter jet for way cheaper. If you can find a way to justify development and cost of the F-35 but somehow not for an AF1 replacement, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I'm sure Donald Trump would love to make his foreign trips in a LD3 container. There he goes now, hail to the chief!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nI68ca4do

Probably a warning shot at B for something else.

Platform doesn't matter, even 3 x B757s will cost same $4B with all protections.

B748 platform is better than B777 for VVIP transportation, because B748 still retains some level of good old pulley/cable control mechanisms, less vulnerable than totally FBW system.