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KarelXWB
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Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:19 am

The Indonesian government has approved the acquisition of 5 new A400M aircraft:

Indonesia has approved a sum of USD2 billion for the acquisition of five Airbus A400M Atlas multirole aircraft to boost the country's military airlift capabilities, multiple sources from within Indonesia's government and defence industry confirmed to IHS Jane's on 18 January.

The airframes will be acquired in the transport and utility configuration, and will be operated across the Indonesian Air Force's (Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara: TNI-AU's) Aviation Squadrons 31 and 32.


Source
http://www.janes.com/article/67064/indo ... d2-billion
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Dutchy
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:21 am

interesting news. The A400 will find more and more homes.
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Grizzly410
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:49 am

A new export customer, and a rumor confirmed : good news :bouncy:

:crossfingers: the Egypt rumor develop the same !!
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keesje
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:01 pm

I think many more will be sold over the next 20 years. It's the step on top the bulk of missions flown by typical C130/ KC390 size aircraft.
A tactical strategic transport for enormous Indonesia with its many islands and inhabitants.

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Strato2
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:30 pm

Great news although the head-gaskets of some members will likely blow. ;)
 
WIederling
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:14 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Great news although the head-gaskets of some members will likely blow. ;)


Pfft.
Music to me. :-)
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Ozair
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:18 pm

keesje wrote:
I think many more will be sold over the next 20 years. It's the step on top the bulk of missions flown by typical C130/ KC390 size aircraft.
A tactical strategic transport for enormous Indonesia with its many islands and inhabitants.

I don't think we will see many more, the A400 will have to be in production for twenty years to allow that and enough orders to keep the line in business till then is a doubtful prospect.

Goods luck to Indonesia, they need to do something about their transport situation and safety record and the A400M is a good fit for the higher end transport requirements. The bulk of Indonesian air transport though needs to be smaller aircraft that fit into smaller fields so I would expect more C295s and potentially more second hand C-130s.

The article says basic transport variant, will be interesting to see if they order the A2A refuelling package with the A400 as they already operate KC-130 tankers to support their fast jet fleet.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:31 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Great news although the head-gaskets of some members will likely blow. ;)


Aye, I expect our Ukranian members were not pleased this did not go An-70... :angel:
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:36 am

Stitch wrote:

Aye, I expect our Ukranian members were not pleased this did not go An-70... :angel:

The An-70 is dead in the water anyways without someone making a major order for the type; 5 aircraft won't cut it. Antonov would need a lot more orders for the type before they can even hope to put it into production. With Russia fully out, and Ukraine hardly in any fiscal shape to place a major order, there's no chance for production.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:12 am

From OP article :
The acquisition [...] was approved with the condition that the final three airframes undergo final fit-out at state-owned PT Dirgantara's facilities in Bandung.


Knowing well the build process I'm wondering what is considered to be the final fit out they could perform there.
As a lot of "final" thinks are fly-away kit already, like hose drum, pods, armoring kit, winches. There is really few things fitted in FAL which are not essential to the flight.
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VSMUT
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:01 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
From OP article :
The acquisition [...] was approved with the condition that the final three airframes undergo final fit-out at state-owned PT Dirgantara's facilities in Bandung.


Knowing well the build process I'm wondering what is considered to be the final fit out they could perform there.
As a lot of "final" thinks are fly-away kit already, like hose drum, pods, armoring kit, winches. There is really few things fitted in FAL which are not essential to the flight.


Don't they make the C212/235/295 in Indonesia already? Perhaps they are aiming at eventually manufacturing the A400M as well, and this is just the first step?
 
WIederling
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:15 am

VSMUT wrote:
Don't they make the C212/235/295 in Indonesia already? Perhaps they are aiming at eventually manufacturing the A400M as well, and this is just the first step?


NC 212, a licensed produced CASA C.212 Aviocar aircraft.[10][11][12][13]
CASA/IPTN CN-235 Civil, Military, and Maritime Version (Joint Development with CASA).[2][3]
see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia ... e#Products


Indonesian Aerospace has a long history in license building frames ( airplanes and helicopter )
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Aesma
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:56 pm

Good news, if a bit surprising for its timing.

VSMUT wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
From OP article :
The acquisition [...] was approved with the condition that the final three airframes undergo final fit-out at state-owned PT Dirgantara's facilities in Bandung.


Knowing well the build process I'm wondering what is considered to be the final fit out they could perform there.
As a lot of "final" thinks are fly-away kit already, like hose drum, pods, armoring kit, winches. There is really few things fitted in FAL which are not essential to the flight.


Don't they make the C212/235/295 in Indonesia already? Perhaps they are aiming at eventually manufacturing the A400M as well, and this is just the first step?


With only 5 on order, I don't think so.
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bunumuring
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:27 am

Hey guys,
I see this as a significant order.
Indonesia recently lost one of their ex-RAAF C-130s in a fatal crash. There has been a tendency for Indonesia to acquire second hand transports and maybe this has now changed. There is no dispute that an archipelago nation as spread out as Indonesia needs many transport aircraft, and big ones at that. Malaysia has the A400M already and have probably also talked to the IndoAF about their (so far limited) experiences with the type.
I think Indonesia will end up with a fleet of about a dozen A400Ms plus a similar size fleet of something like the KC-390.
And while on the subject of Indonesia, how are their three 737-200 Surveillors going? They are getting old now...
And for those not aware, Indonesia recently cut military ties with Australia.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
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hk144
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:39 am

bunumuring,
Indonesia only cut SF Language training not all military ties.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:02 pm

Aren't these A400's some of the German examples sold/not taken delivery/rejected?
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:19 pm

hk144 wrote:
bunumuring,
Indonesia only cut SF Language training not all military ties.


Hey mate,
Thanks for the correction.
I was under the belief that all military ties had been cut.
interesting that these A400Ms may be NTU German ones. Is that confirmed? I know that some European nations were cutting their orders for A400Ms but who and how many exactly? I know that New Zealand is in the market for new transports with the A400M considered a favourite...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
Ozair
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:33 pm

bunumuring wrote:
hk144 wrote:
bunumuring,
Indonesia only cut SF Language training not all military ties.


Hey mate,
Thanks for the correction.
I was under the belief that all military ties had been cut.
interesting that these A400Ms may be NTU German ones. Is that confirmed? I know that some European nations were cutting their orders for A400Ms but who and how many exactly? I know that New Zealand is in the market for new transports with the A400M considered a favourite...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Not sure anyone knows whether these will all be new builds but if the article is right that Indonesia wants some sort of local final fit out then perhaps a couple will be ex German examples and the last 3 new builds.

I found a comment by the Indonesian Defence Minister from mid last year on the A400M.

Indonesia plans to purchase some Airbus A400M military transport aircraft, its defense minister told Reuters on Wednesday, in a potential boost to Europe's largest defense project.

"I have a plan to buy A400s from Europe ... but just a small number. There is no need to buy many," Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said without elaborating.

http://www.todayonline.com/world/indone ... s-minister

Five seems about right as a small number and he at least didn't see a need for many more.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:06 pm

Great quote, Ozair, thanks!
So five may be the overall total. Interesting.
Wonder if anything smaller (but bigger than the new NC-212s) is being looked at for Indonesia?
I feel tha the KC-390 may be a perfect fit for their needs.
... And no one knows a thing about the 737s I mentioned??? I'd love to know their status.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:58 pm

Some news of this possible deal (that airbus never commented afaik) in AviationWeek.
Indonesia have the fund for A400M, some work package would be enough (no outfitting anymore) but wants the MSN23 crash investigation report released.
I understand they need to refresh their fleet anyway, Atlas would be great to upsize a bit. Going from 17 old C-130 to ~10 younger C-130 + 5 A400M seems smart if they bargain them well.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/indones ... 0ms-aw101s
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Zkpilot
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:15 am

US$400m per bird is quite a pricey buy! I'm assuming this price includes a whole load of spares and some sort of maintenance deal lessening the ongoing operational costs.
As others have mentioned, the RNZAF is also looking to replace their 5x C-130H. While bigger I would imagine they would still want 5x frames. US$2B (NZ$3B will not be acceptable to the New Zealand public I can tell you that now).
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WIederling
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:25 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
US$400m per bird is quite a pricey buy! I'm assuming this price includes a whole load of spares and some sort of maintenance deal lessening the ongoing operational costs.
As others have mentioned, the RNZAF is also looking to replace their 5x C-130H. While bigger I would imagine they would still want 5x frames. US$2B (NZ$3B will not be acceptable to the New Zealand public I can tell you that now).


Moneys readied for the whole project, right.
Includes Infrastructure, training, spares, setting up operations to fit the new type, ....

What is theto be expected from experience relation between "naked" unit price and the full ocst of initial induction into an air force?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:53 pm

WIederling wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
US$400m per bird is quite a pricey buy! I'm assuming this price includes a whole load of spares and some sort of maintenance deal lessening the ongoing operational costs.
As others have mentioned, the RNZAF is also looking to replace their 5x C-130H. While bigger I would imagine they would still want 5x frames. US$2B (NZ$3B will not be acceptable to the New Zealand public I can tell you that now).


Moneys readied for the whole project, right.
Includes Infrastructure, training, spares, setting up operations to fit the new type, ....

What is theto be expected from experience relation between "naked" unit price and the full ocst of initial induction into an air force?
typically for most military aircraft the package price is typically 2-3x the naked unit price.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:00 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
US$400m per bird is quite a pricey buy! I'm assuming this price includes a whole load of spares and some sort of maintenance deal lessening the ongoing operational costs.
As others have mentioned, the RNZAF is also looking to replace their 5x C-130H. While bigger I would imagine they would still want 5x frames. US$2B (NZ$3B will not be acceptable to the New Zealand public I can tell you that now).


The NZ public accepted the govts 20 billion capital expenditure program for the military, the C130 replacement is part of that 20 billion. As is HMNZS Aotearoa (I hate that name) it should be HMNZS Endeavour.
 
GDB
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:37 pm

On the subject of a possible RNZAF A400M, this RAF example was in NZ recently;

https://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-Air-F ... w6EA%3D%3D
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:22 am

GDB wrote:
On the subject of a possible RNZAF A400M, this RAF example was in NZ recently;

https://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-Air-F ... w6EA%3D%3D


It looks so nice.. really aggressive. It's like a C-17 ate a C-130J.
 
GDB
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Re: Indonesia orders 5 A400M aircraft

Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Jetbubby, if you liked that....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQk5a0z_rW4

This YT channel (and some others) has loads of footage of military aircraft using this area of North Wales in the UK for low level training, a recent compilation from the above channel had not only RAF A400M's but RAF Tornado GR.4's, Typhoons, C-130J's, Hawks, as well as USAF F-15E's, a MC-130J and a V-22.

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