Embraer KC-390 News and Discussion Thread

YuriMG2 · Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:08 pm

Embraer close to completing Portuguese KC-390 contract

Embraer is on the verge of completing a deal with Portugal confirming the country as the first export customer for the KC-390 tanker transport.

“We are discussing with the government the final contract,” the Brazilian airframer’s chief executive Paulo Cesar Silva said at a pre-Farnborough air show media briefing in Lisbon on 26 June.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ra-449773/

SAS A340 · Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:17 pm

It seems that Sweden has postponed the upgrade of its old C-130H in favor of financing the purchase of the Patriot anti-aircraft system. Assuming that you finally come to a point when it is simply not worth to upgrade because of the plane's age, and if this is the case here I do not know, but our C-130 is quite old. The KC-390 has been mentioned as a replacement, especially since Brazil buys the Gripen.

Ozair · Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:31 pm

SAS A340 wrote:
It seems that Sweden has postponed the upgrade of its old C-130H in favor of financing the purchase of the Patriot anti-aircraft system. Assuming that you finally come to a point when it is simply not worth to upgrade because of the plane's age, and if this is the case here I do not know, but our C-130 is quite old. The KC-390 has been mentioned as a replacement, especially since Brazil buys the Gripen.

NZ is flying the first three C-130H off the production line, from 1965, and they will likely serve until they are at least 58 years old. The US is upgrading existing H models so there is certainly scope for more life. I imagine Sweden would have a similar or less intensive profile to NZ for their C-130 fleet.

Edit: It appears that the bulk of Sweden's C-130H fleet was delivered in 1981, http://www.c-130.net/aircraft-database/ ... rce/SweAF/ so there should be plenty of scope for an upgrade of the current aircraft in a couple of years over replacement by a new aircraft such as the KC-390. All indications are that Sweden now won't look for a C-130H replacement until the early 2030s.

Nean1 · Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:51 pm

Ozair wrote:
SAS A340 wrote:
It seems that Sweden has postponed the upgrade of its old C-130H in favor of financing the purchase of the Patriot anti-aircraft system. Assuming that you finally come to a point when it is simply not worth to upgrade because of the plane's age, and if this is the case here I do not know, but our C-130 is quite old. The KC-390 has been mentioned as a replacement, especially since Brazil buys the Gripen.

NZ is flying the first three C-130H off the production line, from 1965, and they will likely serve until they are at least 58 years old. The US is upgrading existing H models so there is certainly scope for more life. I imagine Sweden would have a similar or less intensive profile to NZ for their C-130 fleet.

Edit: It appears that the bulk of Sweden's C-130H fleet was delivered in 1981, http://www.c-130.net/aircraft-database/ ... rce/SweAF/ so there should be plenty of scope for an upgrade of the current aircraft in a couple of years over replacement by a new aircraft such as the KC-390. All indications are that Sweden now won't look for a C-130H replacement until the early 2030s.

Ozair,

There is a very positive understanding between Saab, Embraer and the Brazilian Air Force as result of the Grippen project. Therefore there is confidence that the KC-390 will be considered in replacing the Swedish C-130s.

Many believe that Brazil will need a 2nd tranche of Grippen aircraft and this will open additional negotiations involving the KC-390 exports in exchange.

Ozair · Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:55 am

Nean1 wrote:
Ozair,

There is a very positive understanding between Saab, Embraer and the Brazilian Air Force as result of the Grippen project. Therefore there is confidence that the KC-390 will be considered in replacing the Swedish C-130s.

Many believe that Brazil will need a 2nd tranche of Grippen aircraft and this will open additional negotiations involving the KC-390 exports in exchange.

Perhaps foolish of me but I consider Saab and the Swedish Air Force as two separate entities. The Swedish Air Force, which operates the C-130H, has clearly stated they aren’t looking for a replacement until the early 2030s.

The Swedish Air Force has postponed plans to upgrade its Lockheed Martin C-130H Hercules fleet instead opting to do a mid-life upgrade for its six transport aircraft, an Air Force official said May 8.

Col. Magnus Liljegren, head of the Air Force department at the Swedish armed forces headquarters, said it was probable that the work would consist of updates to aircraft’s avionics systems, not structural upgrades of the airframe itself. For that reason, the C-130s will fly only until the early 2030s.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/05 ... -390-sale/

That may translate to a replacement order in the 2025-27 timeframe but still 7-10 years away at which point if the KC-390 is still in production would make it a likely candidate.

EMBSPBR · Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:13 am

Source: https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... on-airlift

Embraer Successfully Performs First Flight of the Series Production KC-390 Multi-mission Airlift

Excerpt:

"Gavião Peixoto, Brazil, October, 9, 2018 –
Embraer achieved another important milestone today with the completion of the maiden flight of the first series production multi-mission medium airlift KC-390.
As agreed with the Brazilian Air Force, the aircraft will now join the flight test campaign, in which more than 1,900 flight hours have already been logged. Civil certification of the basic aircraft will be granted by Brazilian aviation authority ANAC (Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil) and is expected to be achieved very soon."

EMBSPBR · Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:32 am

First Flight of the Series Production KC-390 Multi-mission Airlift

EMBSPBR · Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:30 am

Source:http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/economia/noticia/2018-10/anac-emite-certificacao-para-aviao-cargueiro-de-uso-militar

ANAC (National Civil Aviation Agency) issues certification for military aircraft KC-390

Excerpts (translated from portuguese):

"The National Civil Aviation Agency (ANAC) reported today (October 19, 2018) that it issued the KC-390 certification.
The issuance of the certificate allows the aircraft to be marketed and operated throughout Brazil."

"The certification is issued by the agency when the aircraft design demonstrates that it has met all the operational, safety and environmental protection requirements."

"The certification program of this model lasted seven years, with more than 2,500 requirements, and involved the participation of approximately 200 professionals accredited by the National Civil Aviation Agency (ANAC), as well as engineers and technicians from this entity."

mxaxai · Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:04 am

Well done. So when is EASA / FAA certification expected?

texl1649 · Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:43 pm

Would an over the wing engine configuration, a la YC-14, be possible for this in a re-engined derivative? The Coanda effect seems like it could also help with rough fields (and config would ingest less debris), and perhaps the T-tail also would facilitate this modification?

https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-yc-14- ... nced-good/

There are certain similarities in the designs, separated by about 40 years of technological changes.

EMBSPBR · Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:29 pm

Source: https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... ift-kc-390

Phosphorus · Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:40 am

texl1649 wrote:
Would an over the wing engine configuration, a la YC-14, be possible for this in a re-engined derivative? The Coanda effect seems like it could also help with rough fields (and config would ingest less debris), and perhaps the T-tail also would facilitate this modification?

https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-yc-14- ... nced-good/

There are certain similarities in the designs, separated by about 40 years of technological changes.

An easy way to compare complications between "engine configurations" is to look at An-72/74 family and their nearest relatives -- An-148/158/178 family. These planes are as similar as they could be, yet there are many differences, still.

Ozair · Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:09 am

Brazil is expected to get their first aircraft in the second half of 2019. While it appears the KC-390 will have completed Embraer IOC/FOC qualifications by delivery the Brazilian Air Force will still have to go through this process and likely test the jet themselves.

Embraer KC-390 successfully completes troop unloading test

Embraer successfully completed a test of troop unloading and evacuation via the front and rear doors of its KC-390 at Brasília Air Force Base, in Brazil on 21 November.

The tests are required for the aircraft to achieve Final Operational Capability, which is part of the final military certification of the aircraft, expected to occur in the last quarter of 2019, Embraer says. The KC-390 is a medium-sized military transport aircraft powered by two International Aero Engines V2500 turbofans. The transport can carry 80 passengers or 64 paratroopers.

The aircraft received a type certification from the Brazilian aviation authority, Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil, in October. Embraer has said that the first production aircraft will be delivered to the Brazilian air force in the first half 2019. FlightGlobal’s Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that the service has 27 firm orders.

The KC-390 is designed to perform missions such as cargo and troop transport, troop and cargo air delivery, aerial refueling, search and rescue and forest fire fighting. Embraer is attempting to push the aircraft into a military transport market dominated for decades by the Lockheed Martin C-130, by pitching what it claims is the lowest life-cycle cost in the market as well as top speeds that surpass its turboprop rival.

There are 38 letters of intent to order the aircraft from international customers, including six LOIs from Argentina, six from Chile, 12 from Colombia, two from Czech Republic, six from Portugal, and six from Lisbon-based aviation services firm SkyTech, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... in-453826/

Ozair · Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:42 pm

The deal is official (although the Brazilian Government still has the final say). It will be interesting to see how this impacts future KC-390 exports including US production. I think this is the deal Embraer needed to give the KC-390 some credible support globally for military customers.

Boeing, Embraer agree to KC-390 joint venture

Brazilian aerospace firm Embraer and Boeing have officially formed a joint venture on Embraer’s KC-390 multimission aircraft as part of a larger partnership on the companies’ commercial sides.

Under the new agreement, Boeing and Embraer will work together to “promote and develop new markets” for the KC-390, according to a statement released early Monday.

Embraer will own a 51 percent stake in the KC-390 joint venture, with Boeing owning the rest.

The announcement on the KC-390 comes as the companies approved the terms of a strategic partnership that gives Boeing an 80 percent stake in Embraer’s commercial and services business for $4.2 billion.

Before the parties move forward with the transaction, the government of Brazil — which holds a “golden share” in Embraer — must consent to the agreement, and the deal is also subject to the approval of shareholders and regulatory agencies.

“Boeing and Embraer know each other well through more than two decades of collaboration, and the respect we have for each other and the value we see in this partnership has only increased since we announced our joint efforts earlier this year,” said Dennis Muilenburg, Boeing chairman, president and CEO.

“We are confident that this partnership will deliver great value to Brazil and the Brazilian aerospace industry as a whole. This alliance will strengthen both companies in the global market and is aligned with our long-term sustainable growth strategy,” said Paulo Cesar de Souza e Silva, Embraer president and CEO.

Boeing and Embraer have partnered on the KC-390 before. The companies agreed to pacts in 2012 and 2014 that gave the U.S. firm a role on global marketing and logistics support of the KC-390.

However, in the wake of the commercial Boeing-Embraer deal, officials said a new KC-390 joint venture could be broader in scope than those partnerships.

How this new joint venture differs from past agreements is unclear, and the news release contained only sparse details.

According to a July 5 memorandum of understanding between the two companies, a KC-390 joint venture would “grow KC-390 sales and aftermarket opportunities through joint efforts in sales, marketing, engineering and industrial collaboration,” hinting that the partnership could involve an enhancement of the KC-390’s capabilities or Boeing’s help on technology and industrial development.

In October, a Brazilian newspaper reported that Boeing and Embraer were discussing the prospect of building a KC-390 plant in the United States.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/12 ... t-venture/

RJMAZ · Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 pm

I highly doubt Boeing can see the KC-390 entering service with the USAF as it is now.

The KC-390 uses engines that are already a generation behind, accepting a fuel burn penalty for low risk/cost. It offers range equal to the old C-130J. Any future competition would see a C-130 offered using NP2000 8 blade props with engines that burn 10% less fuel while producing 10% more power. The current KC-390 would not stand a chance against that.

I think it is highly likely Boeing is looking at a an engine upgrade. Thrust reversers that direct air up and forward like the C-17 is an absolute must for the USAF. Lower fuel burn would see range extended with any given payload. Pratts GTF or GE's LEAP engine would be mature and just need the complex thrust reversers added.

The KC-390 airframe is brilliant.

Ozair · Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:39 am

RJMAZ wrote:
I highly doubt Boeing can see the KC-390 entering service with the USAF as it is now.

Agree, there is no point with the USAF force structure as it stands to go with the KC-390.

RJMAZ wrote:
The KC-390 uses engines that are already a generation behind, accepting a fuel burn penalty for low risk/cost. It offers range equal to the old C-130J. Any future competition would see a C-130 offered using NP2000 8 blade props with engines that burn 10% less fuel while producing 10% more power. The current KC-390 would not stand a chance against that.

I think it is highly likely Boeing is looking at a an engine upgrade. Thrust reversers that direct air up and forward like the C-17 is an absolute must for the USAF. Lower fuel burn would see range extended with any given payload. Pratts GTF or GE's LEAP engine would be mature and just need the complex thrust reversers added.

I’m not sure how much of an impact the fuel burn would play compared to the impact of rough field operations with the engines. Fuel burn is a small part of the cost equation especially compared to operational utility and effectiveness.

RJMAZ · Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:41 am

Ozair wrote:
I’m not sure how much of an impact the fuel burn would play compared to the impact of rough field operations with the engines. Fuel burn is a small part of the cost equation especially compared to operational utility and effectiveness.

Fuel burn improvements gives many advantages.

10+% less fuel needed to fly the same distance means more payload can be carried over any given distance.

Also takeoff distance grows exponentially with takeoff weight. To fly the same payload the same distance the KC-390 might takeoff 3-4T lighter thanks to the fuel burn improvements. Taking off at 71T instead of 75T might reduce the runway requirement by as much as 20%. All of this is vital to be a C-130J replacement.

A heavy lift quad tilt rotor will most likely replace the C-130J in the short rough field role. Outposts will no longer require a small functioning runway. This is a massive advantage as the runway does not even have to be built, maintained or defended. The outpost could then be located in a superior easier to defend position. This gives massive cost savings and will be a game changer like the V-22. This helps justify the very high price.

Now that the extreme short rough role is eliminated the KC-390 can comfortably replace the majority of the C-130J for cargo distribution. Its speed and low maintenance will make it the obvious choice. Boeing will no doubt see this. An improved KC-390 could also ease the burdon on C-17 fleet and the future heavy lift replacement.

Ozair · Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:03 am

Interesting comments on how Embraer sees the relationship with Boeing on the KC-390. Clearly Boeing has more clout in the marketplace and being able to extract additional cost reduction via Boeing leverage will be a good thing for the aircraft.

Boeing relationship key to KC-390 costs, marketing

Embraer’s defence joint venture with Boeing will use the American company’s leverage over suppliers to cut parts and components costs on the KC-390 tactical transport.

The Brazilian company said at an investor conference on 16 January that it will also lean on Boeing’s international sales and marketing network, as well as the USA’s geopolitical influence, to expand the transport’s sales.

“The markets where the US has a huge geopolitical influence, we compete with Lockheed Martin in those markets,” said Nelson Salgado, chief financial officer of Embraer. “Now with the partnership with Boeing, we are opening up all of those markets, the US and the markets where the US has significant geopolitical influence. With Boeing leverage on the supply chain we will have big possibilities of reducing costs on the [KC-390] and make it a product [that is] more competitive as well.”

The KC-390 is powered by two International Aero Engines V2500 turbofans and can carry 80 passengers or 64 paratroopers. The aircraft is designed to perform missions such as cargo and troop transport, troop and cargo air delivery, aerial refueling, search and rescue and forest fire fighting.

In order to launch the new defence joint venture, Embraer and Boeing will each contribute cash and assets, says Salgado.

“The main asset Embraer is going to contribute is the license that we hold to market the KC-390 worldwide exclusively. The intellectual property of the KC-390 belongs to the Brazilian Air Force and will still belong to the Brazilian Air Force,” he says. “Our cash contribution will be something below $100 million.”

The defence-focused joint venture will also retain Embraer’s final assembly facilities in Melbourne, Florida, Gavião Peixoto, Brazil, and Jacksonville, Florida. Embraer says it is also researching adding a final assembly facility for the KC-390 in the USA.

The KC-390 is aimed at the market segment filled by the Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules, which holds the largest piece of the global military transport market in 2018 with 878 active aircraft, or a 21% market share, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer. Embraer claims the KC-390 has the lowest life-cycle cost in the market as well as top speeds that surpass its turboprop rival.

Embraer plans to continue flight testing the transport in 2019 including advanced airdrop tests with heavy loads, aerial refueling and unpaved runway operations. The firm says that the first production aircraft will be delivered to the Brazilian Air Force in the first half of 2019. FlightGlobal’s Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that the service has 27 firm orders.

There are 38 letters of intent to order the aircraft from international customers, including six LOIs from Argentina, six from Chile, 12 from Colombia, two from Czech Republic, six from Portugal, and six from Lisbon-based aviation services firm SkyTech, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer.

Due to a runway excursion with prototype 001 in May 2018, the declaration of final operational capability for the aircraft is delayed until the second half of 2019, says the company. The incident caused the firm to incur a special item of $127 million, pushing down the company’s defense and security unit's 2018 revenue to $600 million from the forecasted $800 million to $900 million.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-455077/

texl1649 · Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:59 am

Great to hear, thx Ozair. Investing in a US production line is another indication of the intent of the basic design. Boeing is surely eyeing an ability to bid low/safe design a la T/X. Interesting times.

Also, that was a heck of an expensive runway incursion...

texl1649 · Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:32 pm

2 add’l countries in talks/asking about KC390’s with Boeing/Embraer.
Fair use:
“Right now, there are five that we’re talking to—pretty solid countries,” said Mark Bellew, director of sales and marketing for International Government Services at Boeing Global Services.
The five countries extend beyond Embraer’s original teaming agreements with the governments of Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic and Portugal.
“We have a couple of new ones that have come here and asked us questions lately as well,” Bellew said”

http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing- ... cf5ba01590

YuriMG2 · Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Portugal: Embraer aceita vender aeronaves KC-390 por 827 milhões de euros

A Embraer aceitou a condição do governo português em pagar apenas 827 milhões de euros pela compra de cinco aeronaves de transporte militar KC-390, soube o Diário de Notícias junto de fontes do setor.

Segundo fontes ligadas à equipa de negociação criada em 2017 para adquirir os KC-390, o acordo com o fabricante brasileiro abrange o fornecimento de cinco aeronaves de transporte tático-estratégico, um simulador de voo e a manutenção durante o ciclo de vida útil dos aparelhos.

https://www.aereo.jor.br/2019/04/02/por ... -de-euros/

Portugal and Embraer came to a agreement.

5 KC390 + 1 Flight Simulator + Lifetime Maintenance for 827mi euros.

janders · Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:36 pm

Portugal purchase official - 5 frames with delivery commencing 2023

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... ift-kc-390

YuriMG2 · Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:44 pm

5 airplanes
1 simulators
Eletronic warfare equipment
12 years of maintenance
$827mi

I wonder if the SAR and Firefighting Kit are included. Portugal suffered a lot with forest fire in the recent years.

Ozair · Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:46 am

Looks like Hungary is investigating the acquisition of the KC-390 for use as both a transport and AAR tanker. This article in Hungarian, https://jogalappal.hu/jair-bolsonaro-br ... rorszagra/ references the visit of the Brazilian President to Hungary. Apparently they also may have flown the Gripen in proximity to the KC-390 to test airflow.

Would be a good pickup if it comes to pass and it is probably these types of small modern air forces with hose and drogue fighter aircraft that are perfect for the KC-390. Hungary currently has only a single An-24 operational in the transport role and the KC-390 would provide significant improvement for their Afghanistan commitments and potentially Baltic Air Policing role.

par13del · Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:29 pm

I know the KC-390 is not a part of the Boeing purchase, but I would suggest that if they work with Boeing they can get at least 4 a/c sold to the US Government for testing and evaluation, the US OEM's would not mind various government agencies having the "enemy" in the camp so they can get real comparison numbers that they can fudge. The Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, NASA could all evaluate the a/c, from there you never know what can happen.

texl1649 · Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:03 pm

The coast guard hodgepodge fleet of CN235’s and second hand C-27J’s is bound to need to be replaced at some point in the next 10 years. They are worked pretty hard too and with border security only growing as a high profile issue I could see a domestic assembly point being offered for the KC-390 as a logical replacement for the USCG.

aumaverick · Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:54 pm

texl1649 wrote:
The coast guard hodgepodge fleet of CN235’s and second hand C-27J’s is bound to need to be replaced at some point in the next 10 years. They are worked pretty hard too and with border security only growing as a high profile issue I could see a domestic assembly point being offered for the KC-390 as a logical replacement for the USCG.

I don't get the logic on this proposed acquisition for the USCG. The C-27Js were essentially brand new when handed off to the USCG, entering the fleet only 3 years ago. The USCG already has an aircraft in comparable size to the KC-390 in the form of existing H and new J C-130s. With the CN235s approaching 200,000 flight hours, they will be the first considerations for replacement, and the 390 is far in excess of size and capability. So what would the 390 logically replace?

tapairbus370 · Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:14 pm

I don't get the logic on this proposed acquisition for the USCG. The C-27Js were essentially brand new when handed off to the USCG, entering the fleet only 3 years ago. The USCG already has an aircraft in comparable size to the KC-390 in the form of existing H and new J C-130s. With the CN235s approaching 200,000 flight hours, they will be the first considerations for replacement, and the 390 is far in excess of size and capability. So what would the 390 logically replace?[/quote

I know it´s off topic, but a quick question: What can replace the CN235s? The CN295?

par13del · Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:18 am

Well the US government purchased a few a/c for the Army which went straight to mothballs before they struggled to let some other service use a couple, boggles the mind on the expertise, hence the reason why I said they could sell them a few for testing and evaluation. I am certain that after 24 to 36 months of testing they will have hard numbers showing that X could lift more..and X range is better etc etc etc

strfyr51 · Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:10 am

what might be the KC390's chance to be a COD or tanker for the US Navy? could it fit aboard a carrier? I've never seen one up close.

Ozair · Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:26 am

tapairbus370 wrote:
I know it´s off topic, but a quick question: What can replace the CN235s? The CN295?

The CN-295 would be a logical replacement or acquire more C-27Js.

par13del wrote:
Well the US government purchased a few a/c for the Army which went straight to mothballs before they struggled to let some other service use a couple, boggles the mind on the expertise, hence the reason why I said they could sell them a few for testing and evaluation. I am certain that after 24 to 36 months of testing they will have hard numbers showing that X could lift more..and X range is better etc etc etc

I just don't see the justification to run a few aircraft like that. They could get 95% of the info they needed from a paper evaluation.

strfyr51 wrote:
what might be the KC390's chance to be a COD or tanker for the US Navy? could it fit aboard a carrier? I've never seen one up close.

Lol no the KC-390 is not going to land on, or take off from, a carrier.

par13del · Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:28 am

Since the wings do not fold, even if it can land it would disrupt the operations on the small airfield, parking would probably take up too much space.

texl1649 · Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:26 pm

I do realize it’s a ways off, but the CN235’s are in particular not going to make it much past 2030. Realistically, or not, the 390 offers a lot of capability as a bit of both worlds; efficient twinjet that can cover tons of ground in surveillance mode, could be refueled (plausibly by a drone tanker in the future), carry a lot of surveillance gear/tech, and possibly even with the rear ramp deploy some sort of aid/raft/assistance not available today.

Replacement of all 3 types (235/130/27J’s) it could also offer a lot of flexibility for emergency response transport as well, if missions could ‘evolve’ while potentially decreasing net operating costs.

frmrCapCadet · Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:58 pm

surveillance: Won't this increasingly be done by very capable drones. It is currently happening, and drones are becoming ever more capable.

Ozair · Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:41 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
surveillance: Won't this increasingly be done by very capable drones. It is currently happening, and drones are becoming ever more capable.

Makes sense to do that. Using drones would likely be overall cheaper to operate per hour as long as the back end is set up, so operators, comms links, imagery analysts etc. I doubt the Coast Guard has that set up today but could probably do so in the same time it would take to acquire and bring into service a new fleet of aircraft anyway.

The other side of it though is equipping those drones with some sort of recovery equipment. The drones aren’t going to be winching people from the ocean (yet) but could feasibly deploy life rafts and other equipment the same way a KC-390/CN-235 would.

texl1649 · Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:50 pm

A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.

Ozair · Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:27 am

texl1649 wrote:
A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.

I don’t believe the knowledge gap is that great. Given the USAF, US Army, USN and USMC all use drones as well as Homeland Security so the process should be well documented to get to an operational drone capability.

Border Protection, via DHS drones, is probably the perfect example and is increasing in numbers and flight hours every year with drones now a standard tool for use by the service.

CBP completed 635 missions in the 2017 fiscal year, totalling over 5625 hours of flight.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/10/us-b ... er-before/

I expect DHS would be close to flying the same hours with drones today that the Coast Guard flies with manned fixed wing aircraft.

Back to potential Coast Guard use of the KC-390, the current plan is to replace all existing C-130Hs with the J in the next few years and expects to continue to receive funding for that in future budgets.

Like the Air Force, the Coast Guard maintains a mix of older C-130Hs, but it's moving to an all J-model fleet. The fiscal 2018 budget gave the service permission to purchase its 15th J-model.
Schultz said the Coast Guard needs 22 newer C-130s overall. "We're optimistic there might be a 16th in the [fiscal 2019] budget," he said.
The service also inherited 14 C-27J Spartan aircraft from the Air Force in 2014.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/20 ... ogram.html

Given the arrival of the C-27Js I expect the replacement of the CN-235s (HC-144s in USCG service) by the CN-295 is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to expand the C-130/C-27 combination, noting the KC-390 is a C-130 sized aircraft and not a CN-295 sized aircraft, and then bring in unmanned aircraft to lift the flight hours and overall surveillance capability.

texl1649 · Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:54 pm

Thx. I didn’t realize they basically had just/are just now replacing their whole C-130 fleet. Given that data, I agree it’s unlikely the USCG is the first branch to bring the 390 into US DoD service. I do doubt more C-27J’s will be brought on (as new orders) but maybe.

Ozair · Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:16 am

Elbit has been selected to supply the EW suite for Portuguese KC-390s. Not sure if this means the aircraft initially comes without an EW system or that the one supplied didn’t meet Portuguese needs.

Elbit to supply EW kit for Portugal KC-390s

Lisbon has selected Elbit Systems to provide the electronic warfare (EW) suite of its five new Embraer KC-390 tactical transports.

The suite includes radar and laser warning systems, an infrared (IR) missile warning systems, a countermeasures dispensing system, DIRCM (Direction IR countermeasures) and an active electronic countermeasures system, says Elbit.

The deal is subject to a Portuguese government approval process, says Elbit. The cost of the deal was not disclosed.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-460474/

YuriMG2 · Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:24 pm

First Brazilian KC-390 to be delivered tomorrow.

YuriMG2 · Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:58 pm

First KC-390 delivered to the Brazilian Air Force.

Ozair · Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:58 pm

The Boeing-Embraer deal has fallen through and while the teaming agreement with Embraer is still in place, and has been since 2012, the joint venture and any likely production or FMS sales of the C-390 by Boeing won't be going ahead. This also puts a big nail in the coffin of the USAF ever operating the aircraft.

Boeing-Embraer joint venture collapse throws cold water on C-390

Collapse of a joint venture agreement between Boeing and Embraer to promote the Embraer C-390 Millennium will likely make it more difficult to sell the medium-lift transport outside of Brazil, seriously hurting the overall sales of the aircraft programme.

...

Establishing a joint venture with Boeing opened up the possibility that Embraer could establish a production line in the USA and sell the C-390 to Washington. A production line in the USA, via Boeing, could allow the joint venture to leverage the US government’s Foreign Military Sales security assistance programme which would make it easier to sell the C-390 to international customers.

Now, both options are gone.

Boeing says it plans to retain a master teaming agreement with Embraer, signed in 2012, to jointly market and support the C-390 aircraft. The company declines to comment on the differences between the marketing agreement and the joint venture.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 78.article

SAS A340 · Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:56 pm

Too bad even for Boeing, think this was one of Boeing's better opportunities in 2020, but with all the problems Boeing has now with the kc-767, Max8... corona, the money is no longer available.

texl1649 · Sun May 03, 2020 2:52 pm

This size of lift will also be a contentious debate moving forward as to whether tactical transports in the C-130 and below realm should be vertical lift/quad tiltrotors. I never understood how Boeing envisioned selling V2500 powered C390’s to the USAF as a 50-75 year replacement for the Herc.

Nean1 · Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:40 pm

Some news about the program:
1) KC-390 Millennium complete CDS and LVAD tests

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br1Qm-xcylU

2) Three units in operation by the Brazilian Air Force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mr5FUU4s1M

3) Completion of the aerial refueling campaign (fixed wing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2MX6D-AwIg

4) FAB concludes helicopter refueling campaign and expands its operational capacity. Certification by the Brazilian Air Force of aerial refueling for helicopter H-36 Caracal, still using the C-130.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PmWVhQd4hM

Nean1 · Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:54 pm

Some images of the first KC-390 unit destined for Portugal on the production line.

https://www.aereo.jor.br/2020/11/10/pri ... ortuguesa/

texl1649 · Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:46 pm

Ozair wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.

I don’t believe the knowledge gap is that great. Given the USAF, US Army, USN and USMC all use drones as well as Homeland Security so the process should be well documented to get to an operational drone capability.

Border Protection, via DHS drones, is probably the perfect example and is increasing in numbers and flight hours every year with drones now a standard tool for use by the service.
CBP completed 635 missions in the 2017 fiscal year, totalling over 5625 hours of flight.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/10/us-b ... er-before/

I expect DHS would be close to flying the same hours with drones today that the Coast Guard flies with manned fixed wing aircraft.

Back to potential Coast Guard use of the KC-390, the current plan is to replace all existing C-130Hs with the J in the next few years and expects to continue to receive funding for that in future budgets.
Like the Air Force, the Coast Guard maintains a mix of older C-130Hs, but it's moving to an all J-model fleet. The fiscal 2018 budget gave the service permission to purchase its 15th J-model.
Schultz said the Coast Guard needs 22 newer C-130s overall. "We're optimistic there might be a 16th in the [fiscal 2019] budget," he said.
The service also inherited 14 C-27J Spartan aircraft from the Air Force in 2014.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/20 ... ogram.html

Given the arrival of the C-27Js I expect the replacement of the CN-235s (HC-144s in USCG service) by the CN-295 is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to expand the C-130/C-27 combination, noting the KC-390 is a C-130 sized aircraft and not a CN-295 sized aircraft, and then bring in unmanned aircraft to lift the flight hours and overall surveillance capability.

Apparently Leonardo has a customer somewhere for an updated C-27J they have built and plan to deliver in 2021. I doubt it’s for the US Coast Guard, but will be interesting indeed to see who the customer is.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 84.article

Ozair · Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:20 pm

texl1649 wrote:

Apparently Leonardo has a customer somewhere for an updated C-27J they have built and plan to deliver in 2021. I doubt it’s for the US Coast Guard, but will be interesting indeed to see who the customer is.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 84.article

Perhaps Taiwan because they have been so quiet about it? I can see some operators being keen for the upgrade while others will continue with the platform as is. Not sure how many additional orders there are going to be for the C-27J even in upgraded form.

Nean1 · Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:08 pm

By the end of the year, the fourth model of the KC-390 should be delivered to the Brazilian Air Force.

tapairbus370 · Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:03 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Ozair wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.

I don’t believe the knowledge gap is that great. Given the USAF, US Army, USN and USMC all use drones as well as Homeland Security so the process should be well documented to get to an operational drone capability.

Border Protection, via DHS drones, is probably the perfect example and is increasing in numbers and flight hours every year with drones now a standard tool for use by the service.
CBP completed 635 missions in the 2017 fiscal year, totalling over 5625 hours of flight.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/10/us-b ... er-before/

I expect DHS would be close to flying the same hours with drones today that the Coast Guard flies with manned fixed wing aircraft.

Back to potential Coast Guard use of the KC-390, the current plan is to replace all existing C-130Hs with the J in the next few years and expects to continue to receive funding for that in future budgets.
Like the Air Force, the Coast Guard maintains a mix of older C-130Hs, but it's moving to an all J-model fleet. The fiscal 2018 budget gave the service permission to purchase its 15th J-model.
Schultz said the Coast Guard needs 22 newer C-130s overall. "We're optimistic there might be a 16th in the [fiscal 2019] budget," he said.
The service also inherited 14 C-27J Spartan aircraft from the Air Force in 2014.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/20 ... ogram.html

Given the arrival of the C-27Js I expect the replacement of the CN-235s (HC-144s in USCG service) by the CN-295 is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to expand the C-130/C-27 combination, noting the KC-390 is a C-130 sized aircraft and not a CN-295 sized aircraft, and then bring in unmanned aircraft to lift the flight hours and overall surveillance capability.

Apparently Leonardo has a customer somewhere for an updated C-27J they have built and plan to deliver in 2021. I doubt it’s for the US Coast Guard, but will be interesting indeed to see who the customer is.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 84.article

They're for the Zambian Air Force

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