Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Flying-Tiger wrote:The Brazilian Air Force has reduced its order for the KC-390 from 28 frames to only 15.
https://www.reuters.com/article/embraer-brazil-govt-idUSL1N2S31XU
art wrote:India a possible customer? India has 12 Hercs and is interested in expanding its military transport/lift by another 6. Given the S-400 purchase, there is a possibility of future US sanctions. For security of supply, might India buy some C-390's? The article linked below says that Embraer has pitched the C-390 to IAF.
http://idrw.org/embraer-offers-c-390-mi ... ore-281065
Grizzly410 wrote:art wrote:India a possible customer? India has 12 Hercs and is interested in expanding its military transport/lift by another 6. Given the S-400 purchase, there is a possibility of future US sanctions. For security of supply, might India buy some C-390's? The article linked below says that Embraer has pitched the C-390 to IAF.
http://idrw.org/embraer-offers-c-390-mi ... ore-281065
Wouldn't KC-390 be affected by US sanctions too? I have a hard time to believe a modern aircraft like KC-390 can exist without a lot of ITAR submitted equipments.
art wrote:South Korea is looking to buy airlifters. Hercules, A400M and KC-390 are expected to be offered. Perhaps Embraer could get lucky on this one.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defe ... pabilities
Grizzly410 wrote:art wrote:India a possible customer? India has 12 Hercs and is interested in expanding its military transport/lift by another 6. Given the S-400 purchase, there is a possibility of future US sanctions. For security of supply, might India buy some C-390's? The article linked below says that Embraer has pitched the C-390 to IAF.
http://idrw.org/embraer-offers-c-390-mi ... ore-281065
Wouldn't KC-390 be affected by US sanctions too? I have a hard time to believe a modern aircraft like KC-390 can exist without a lot of ITAR submitted equipments.
Nean1 wrote:Grizzly410 wrote:art wrote:India a possible customer? India has 12 Hercs and is interested in expanding its military transport/lift by another 6. Given the S-400 purchase, there is a possibility of future US sanctions. For security of supply, might India buy some C-390's? The article linked below says that Embraer has pitched the C-390 to IAF.
http://idrw.org/embraer-offers-c-390-mi ... ore-281065
Wouldn't KC-390 be affected by US sanctions too? I have a hard time to believe a modern aircraft like KC-390 can exist without a lot of ITAR submitted equipments.
Do you really think that President Biden can impose sanctions on Brazil and India and that there would be no adverse consequences for American interests?
Nean1 wrote:Grizzly410 wrote:art wrote:India a possible customer? India has 12 Hercs and is interested in expanding its military transport/lift by another 6. Given the S-400 purchase, there is a possibility of future US sanctions. For security of supply, might India buy some C-390's? The article linked below says that Embraer has pitched the C-390 to IAF.
http://idrw.org/embraer-offers-c-390-mi ... ore-281065
Wouldn't KC-390 be affected by US sanctions too? I have a hard time to believe a modern aircraft like KC-390 can exist without a lot of ITAR submitted equipments.
Do you really think that President Biden can impose sanctions on Brazil and India and that there would be no adverse consequences for American interests?
bikerthai wrote:ITAR regulations only covers arms coming and going out if the US. Unless the C-390 have components that goes thu he US. ITAR regulations do not apply.
If India runs afoul of the US to a point where sanctions gets involved, then there'll be lots more issues than just the C-390.
All AH-64 fuselages are currently being made in India for example.
bt
mxaxai wrote:bikerthai wrote:ITAR regulations only covers arms coming and going out if the US. Unless the C-390 have components that goes thu he US. ITAR regulations do not apply.
If India runs afoul of the US to a point where sanctions gets involved, then there'll be lots more issues than just the C-390.
All AH-64 fuselages are currently being made in India for example.
bt
ITAR covers arms and components as well as license-built parts and technical data throughout the product's entire lifetime. As long as anything in the product originated from the US (and is subject to ITAR), you can't sell it without approval by the US gov. Well, at least not legally ...
Nean1 wrote:The Democratic Party has done an excellent job of bringing Russia and Saudi Arabia closer to China. Let's see if they have the same success with Brazil and India.
angad84 wrote:India will not get closer to China, but you're right that DC makes it harder, not easier, for New Delhi to make the right choices. Quite silly, really...
Nean1 wrote:The Democratic Party has done an excellent job of bringing Russia and Saudi Arabia closer to China. Let's see if they have the same success with Brazil and India.
bikerthai wrote:angad84 wrote:India will not get closer to China, but you're right that DC makes it harder, not easier, for New Delhi to make the right choices. Quite silly, really...
US political party in power should not drive India away.
Both political party have prominent politicians with India ties.
Who else India will be driven to?
Major arms sales to India began with Bush and accelerated thru the Obama presidency and even survived the Trump administration.
My sense is road block to US arms sales to India has more to do with cost and the start and stop nature of the India procurement process.
bt
angad84 wrote:the present Indian admin has displayed an overt preference for the US right/GOP.
angad84 wrote:Plus, progressives almost universally seem to have an axe to grind with India.
angad84 wrote:If that is a roadblock for the US, it is for the US to figure out.
art wrote:
UPlog wrote:Netherlands selects KC-390 as its Hercules replacement!
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... eplacement
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/06/em ... transport/
UPlog wrote:Netherlands selects KC-390 as its Hercules replacement!
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... eplacement
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/06/em ... transport/
GDB wrote:Honestly? When Fokker announced they where going to cooperate with Embraer, specifically mentioning this included the military projects, I figured the KC-390 had become the front runner.Who saw that coming? most expected, myself included, they would go for the C-130J.
petertenthije wrote:GDB wrote:Honestly? When Fokker announced they where going to cooperate with Embraer, specifically mentioning this included the military projects, I figured the KC-390 had become the front runner.Who saw that coming? most expected, myself included, they would go for the C-130J.
RJMAZ wrote:Excellent news for an excellent aircraft.
I think if most C-130 operators purchased the KC-390 they would prefer it for 99% of operations.
GDB wrote:UPlog wrote:Netherlands selects KC-390 as its Hercules replacement!
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... eplacement
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/06/em ... transport/
Who saw that coming? most expected, myself included, they would go for the C-130J.
Will be interesting to see them in operation in Northern Europe with NATO partners.
Flying-Tiger wrote:GDB wrote:UPlog wrote:Netherlands selects KC-390 as its Hercules replacement!
https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... eplacement
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/06/em ... transport/
Who saw that coming? most expected, myself included, they would go for the C-130J.
Will be interesting to see them in operation in Northern Europe with NATO partners.
I think it´s actually a pretty strange choice given that the Netherlands operates a good deal of its equipment with partner nations nowadays (tank brigade with Germany, MRTT as multinational operation) and they are now the only nation in that corner of Europe to not operate the A400M. All direct neightbours - Luxemburg, Belgium, France, Germany and UK are operators. The Netherlands are the odd one out here.
kitplane01 wrote:
Hungary 2
Portugul 5
Netherlands 5
Schroinx wrote:kitplane01 wrote:
Hungary 2
Portugul 5
Netherlands 5
This is what happens when there are local jobs in it. Countries in EU end up with a lot of different types of planes, some imported from outside the EU, and there is no coordination or overall plan, as all act in their own short-term interest. It's not different here in Denmark, regrettably.
kitplane01 wrote:Schroinx wrote:kitplane01 wrote:
Hungary 2
Portugul 5
Netherlands 5
This is what happens when there are local jobs in it. Countries in EU end up with a lot of different types of planes, some imported from outside the EU, and there is no coordination or overall plan, as all act in their own short-term interest. It's not different here in Denmark, regrettably.
What would you like? Hungary is not going to trade 2 C-390s for two thirds of a A400s. They could have bought C-130s or C-390s. That's the full list of choices.
As for making a "european" C-130 sized airframe ... Europe did exactly right for not making a plane that doesn't sell. Embraer has a very nice plane and just cannot sell enough to be viable. Not even close!
Schroinx wrote:Could they have bought say 10 C-295s and then shared a 1 A400M or something like that?
Schroinx wrote:kitplane01 wrote:
Hungary 2
Portugul 5
Netherlands 5
This is what happens when there are local jobs in it. Countries in EU end up with a lot of different types of planes, some imported from outside the EU, and there is no coordination or overall plan, as all act in their own short-term interest. It's not different here in Denmark, regrettably.
aumaverick wrote:art wrote:South Korea is looking to buy airlifters. Hercules, A400M and KC-390 are expected to be offered. Perhaps Embraer could get lucky on this one.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defe ... pabilities
I doubt it will happen, but would love to see the ROKAF pickup the C-2.
art wrote:aumaverick wrote:art wrote:South Korea is looking to buy airlifters. Hercules, A400M and KC-390 are expected to be offered. Perhaps Embraer could get lucky on this one.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/defe ... pabilities
I doubt it will happen, but would love to see the ROKAF pickup the C-2.
SK has a dozen C-130H and C-130K and 4 C-130J (via Wiki). Since A400M and C-2 are much larger, I would think the prime candidates are C-130J and C-390 unless the requirement has altered.
However, a Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) source told Janes that the required operational capability (ROC) of the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) limits participation in the project to aircraft with four engines.
“Embraer‘s KC390 does not fit the ROC of the RoKAF, so it is difficult to participate in the project. As per the ROC, [aircraft] must be equipped with four turboprop engines. [This means] the A400M and C-130J,” said the source.
ThePointblank wrote:art wrote:SK has a dozen C-130H and C-130K and 4 C-130J (via Wiki). Since A400M and C-2 are much larger, I would think the prime candidates are C-130J and C-390 unless the requirement has altered.
Previous statements by various South Korean officials seem to indicate the South Koreans are looking towards a 4 engined option:
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/air- ... rt-projectHowever, a Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) source told Janes that the required operational capability (ROC) of the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) limits participation in the project to aircraft with four engines.
“Embraer‘s KC390 does not fit the ROC of the RoKAF, so it is difficult to participate in the project. As per the ROC, [aircraft] must be equipped with four turboprop engines. [This means] the A400M and C-130J,” said the source.
DAPA told Janes that the Lockheed-Martin C-130J-30 Super Hercules, Airbus A400M Atlas, and the twin-engined Embraer C-390 Millennium “are expected to participate in this project”.
However, a Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) source told Janes that the required operational capability (ROC) of the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) limits participation in the project to aircraft with four engines.
texl1649 wrote:Could it alternatively be the case that KAI would look to build a wing for a quad variant C-390 derivative using locally built/license built turbofans in such a size?
aumaverick wrote:texl1649 wrote:Could it alternatively be the case that KAI would look to build a wing for a quad variant C-390 derivative using locally built/license built turbofans in such a size?
That sounds incredibly complex, expensive, and negates the efficiencies of having the current configuration with two engines. Besides accommodating two more engines, what would a new wing bring to the table? Why the need for 4 engines? Does KAI or SK even build any turbofans domestically?
docmtl wrote:And now Europe is going on a tender for a medium-sized airlifter, which seems to emulate the C-130/KC-390 specs. Leading nations are France, Germany and... Sweden (which partners with Embraer on the Grippen NG fighter jet for the Brazilian Air Force, but as not chosen the KC-390 to replace its C-130H and now could even develop a competing airplane)
steman wrote:The Italian Air Force has a requirement to replace the C-130J.
They have already placed a few on the used market.
But so far no indication of when an order will be placed or what kind of platform are they looking for.
The KC390 is of the right size if one looks for a direct C-130 replacement. But they might decide to go bigger with the A400M (that would
ironic, since the programm was originally lead by Italy before it became and Airbus Spain project and Italy withdrew from it altogether).
A wild card would the Japanese C-2, which is offered for export but Japanese models are hardly ever sold abroad.