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SAS A340 wrote:It seems that Sweden has postponed the upgrade of its old C-130H in favor of financing the purchase of the Patriot anti-aircraft system. Assuming that you finally come to a point when it is simply not worth to upgrade because of the plane's age, and if this is the case here I do not know, but our C-130 is quite old. The KC-390 has been mentioned as a replacement, especially since Brazil buys the Gripen.
Ozair wrote:SAS A340 wrote:It seems that Sweden has postponed the upgrade of its old C-130H in favor of financing the purchase of the Patriot anti-aircraft system. Assuming that you finally come to a point when it is simply not worth to upgrade because of the plane's age, and if this is the case here I do not know, but our C-130 is quite old. The KC-390 has been mentioned as a replacement, especially since Brazil buys the Gripen.
NZ is flying the first three C-130H off the production line, from 1965, and they will likely serve until they are at least 58 years old. The US is upgrading existing H models so there is certainly scope for more life. I imagine Sweden would have a similar or less intensive profile to NZ for their C-130 fleet.
Edit: It appears that the bulk of Sweden's C-130H fleet was delivered in 1981, http://www.c-130.net/aircraft-database/ ... rce/SweAF/ so there should be plenty of scope for an upgrade of the current aircraft in a couple of years over replacement by a new aircraft such as the KC-390. All indications are that Sweden now won't look for a C-130H replacement until the early 2030s.
Nean1 wrote:Ozair,
There is a very positive understanding between Saab, Embraer and the Brazilian Air Force as result of the Grippen project. Therefore there is confidence that the KC-390 will be considered in replacing the Swedish C-130s.
Many believe that Brazil will need a 2nd tranche of Grippen aircraft and this will open additional negotiations involving the KC-390 exports in exchange.
The Swedish Air Force has postponed plans to upgrade its Lockheed Martin C-130H Hercules fleet instead opting to do a mid-life upgrade for its six transport aircraft, an Air Force official said May 8.
Col. Magnus Liljegren, head of the Air Force department at the Swedish armed forces headquarters, said it was probable that the work would consist of updates to aircraft’s avionics systems, not structural upgrades of the airframe itself. For that reason, the C-130s will fly only until the early 2030s.
texl1649 wrote:Would an over the wing engine configuration, a la YC-14, be possible for this in a re-engined derivative? The Coanda effect seems like it could also help with rough fields (and config would ingest less debris), and perhaps the T-tail also would facilitate this modification?
https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-yc-14- ... nced-good/
There are certain similarities in the designs, separated by about 40 years of technological changes.
Embraer successfully completed a test of troop unloading and evacuation via the front and rear doors of its KC-390 at Brasília Air Force Base, in Brazil on 21 November.
The tests are required for the aircraft to achieve Final Operational Capability, which is part of the final military certification of the aircraft, expected to occur in the last quarter of 2019, Embraer says. The KC-390 is a medium-sized military transport aircraft powered by two International Aero Engines V2500 turbofans. The transport can carry 80 passengers or 64 paratroopers.
The aircraft received a type certification from the Brazilian aviation authority, Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil, in October. Embraer has said that the first production aircraft will be delivered to the Brazilian air force in the first half 2019. FlightGlobal’s Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that the service has 27 firm orders.
The KC-390 is designed to perform missions such as cargo and troop transport, troop and cargo air delivery, aerial refueling, search and rescue and forest fire fighting. Embraer is attempting to push the aircraft into a military transport market dominated for decades by the Lockheed Martin C-130, by pitching what it claims is the lowest life-cycle cost in the market as well as top speeds that surpass its turboprop rival.
There are 38 letters of intent to order the aircraft from international customers, including six LOIs from Argentina, six from Chile, 12 from Colombia, two from Czech Republic, six from Portugal, and six from Lisbon-based aviation services firm SkyTech, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer.
Brazilian aerospace firm Embraer and Boeing have officially formed a joint venture on Embraer’s KC-390 multimission aircraft as part of a larger partnership on the companies’ commercial sides.
Under the new agreement, Boeing and Embraer will work together to “promote and develop new markets” for the KC-390, according to a statement released early Monday.
Embraer will own a 51 percent stake in the KC-390 joint venture, with Boeing owning the rest.
The announcement on the KC-390 comes as the companies approved the terms of a strategic partnership that gives Boeing an 80 percent stake in Embraer’s commercial and services business for $4.2 billion.
Before the parties move forward with the transaction, the government of Brazil — which holds a “golden share” in Embraer — must consent to the agreement, and the deal is also subject to the approval of shareholders and regulatory agencies.
“Boeing and Embraer know each other well through more than two decades of collaboration, and the respect we have for each other and the value we see in this partnership has only increased since we announced our joint efforts earlier this year,” said Dennis Muilenburg, Boeing chairman, president and CEO.
“We are confident that this partnership will deliver great value to Brazil and the Brazilian aerospace industry as a whole. This alliance will strengthen both companies in the global market and is aligned with our long-term sustainable growth strategy,” said Paulo Cesar de Souza e Silva, Embraer president and CEO.
Boeing and Embraer have partnered on the KC-390 before. The companies agreed to pacts in 2012 and 2014 that gave the U.S. firm a role on global marketing and logistics support of the KC-390.
However, in the wake of the commercial Boeing-Embraer deal, officials said a new KC-390 joint venture could be broader in scope than those partnerships.
How this new joint venture differs from past agreements is unclear, and the news release contained only sparse details.
According to a July 5 memorandum of understanding between the two companies, a KC-390 joint venture would “grow KC-390 sales and aftermarket opportunities through joint efforts in sales, marketing, engineering and industrial collaboration,” hinting that the partnership could involve an enhancement of the KC-390’s capabilities or Boeing’s help on technology and industrial development.
In October, a Brazilian newspaper reported that Boeing and Embraer were discussing the prospect of building a KC-390 plant in the United States.
RJMAZ wrote:I highly doubt Boeing can see the KC-390 entering service with the USAF as it is now.
RJMAZ wrote:The KC-390 uses engines that are already a generation behind, accepting a fuel burn penalty for low risk/cost. It offers range equal to the old C-130J. Any future competition would see a C-130 offered using NP2000 8 blade props with engines that burn 10% less fuel while producing 10% more power. The current KC-390 would not stand a chance against that.
I think it is highly likely Boeing is looking at a an engine upgrade. Thrust reversers that direct air up and forward like the C-17 is an absolute must for the USAF. Lower fuel burn would see range extended with any given payload. Pratts GTF or GE's LEAP engine would be mature and just need the complex thrust reversers added.
Ozair wrote:I’m not sure how much of an impact the fuel burn would play compared to the impact of rough field operations with the engines. Fuel burn is a small part of the cost equation especially compared to operational utility and effectiveness.
Embraer’s defence joint venture with Boeing will use the American company’s leverage over suppliers to cut parts and components costs on the KC-390 tactical transport.
The Brazilian company said at an investor conference on 16 January that it will also lean on Boeing’s international sales and marketing network, as well as the USA’s geopolitical influence, to expand the transport’s sales.
“The markets where the US has a huge geopolitical influence, we compete with Lockheed Martin in those markets,” said Nelson Salgado, chief financial officer of Embraer. “Now with the partnership with Boeing, we are opening up all of those markets, the US and the markets where the US has significant geopolitical influence. With Boeing leverage on the supply chain we will have big possibilities of reducing costs on the [KC-390] and make it a product [that is] more competitive as well.”
The KC-390 is powered by two International Aero Engines V2500 turbofans and can carry 80 passengers or 64 paratroopers. The aircraft is designed to perform missions such as cargo and troop transport, troop and cargo air delivery, aerial refueling, search and rescue and forest fire fighting.
In order to launch the new defence joint venture, Embraer and Boeing will each contribute cash and assets, says Salgado.
“The main asset Embraer is going to contribute is the license that we hold to market the KC-390 worldwide exclusively. The intellectual property of the KC-390 belongs to the Brazilian Air Force and will still belong to the Brazilian Air Force,” he says. “Our cash contribution will be something below $100 million.”
The defence-focused joint venture will also retain Embraer’s final assembly facilities in Melbourne, Florida, Gavião Peixoto, Brazil, and Jacksonville, Florida. Embraer says it is also researching adding a final assembly facility for the KC-390 in the USA.
The KC-390 is aimed at the market segment filled by the Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules, which holds the largest piece of the global military transport market in 2018 with 878 active aircraft, or a 21% market share, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer. Embraer claims the KC-390 has the lowest life-cycle cost in the market as well as top speeds that surpass its turboprop rival.
Embraer plans to continue flight testing the transport in 2019 including advanced airdrop tests with heavy loads, aerial refueling and unpaved runway operations. The firm says that the first production aircraft will be delivered to the Brazilian Air Force in the first half of 2019. FlightGlobal’s Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that the service has 27 firm orders.
There are 38 letters of intent to order the aircraft from international customers, including six LOIs from Argentina, six from Chile, 12 from Colombia, two from Czech Republic, six from Portugal, and six from Lisbon-based aviation services firm SkyTech, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer.
Due to a runway excursion with prototype 001 in May 2018, the declaration of final operational capability for the aircraft is delayed until the second half of 2019, says the company. The incident caused the firm to incur a special item of $127 million, pushing down the company’s defense and security unit's 2018 revenue to $600 million from the forecasted $800 million to $900 million.
Portugal: Embraer aceita vender aeronaves KC-390 por 827 milhões de euros
A Embraer aceitou a condição do governo português em pagar apenas 827 milhões de euros pela compra de cinco aeronaves de transporte militar KC-390, soube o Diário de Notícias junto de fontes do setor.
Segundo fontes ligadas à equipa de negociação criada em 2017 para adquirir os KC-390, o acordo com o fabricante brasileiro abrange o fornecimento de cinco aeronaves de transporte tático-estratégico, um simulador de voo e a manutenção durante o ciclo de vida útil dos aparelhos.
https://www.aereo.jor.br/2019/04/02/por ... -de-euros/
texl1649 wrote:The coast guard hodgepodge fleet of CN235’s and second hand C-27J’s is bound to need to be replaced at some point in the next 10 years. They are worked pretty hard too and with border security only growing as a high profile issue I could see a domestic assembly point being offered for the KC-390 as a logical replacement for the USCG.
tapairbus370 wrote:I know it´s off topic, but a quick question: What can replace the CN235s? The CN295?
par13del wrote:Well the US government purchased a few a/c for the Army which went straight to mothballs before they struggled to let some other service use a couple, boggles the mind on the expertise, hence the reason why I said they could sell them a few for testing and evaluation. I am certain that after 24 to 36 months of testing they will have hard numbers showing that X could lift more..and X range is better etc etc etc
strfyr51 wrote:what might be the KC390's chance to be a COD or tanker for the US Navy? could it fit aboard a carrier? I've never seen one up close.
frmrCapCadet wrote:surveillance: Won't this increasingly be done by very capable drones. It is currently happening, and drones are becoming ever more capable.
texl1649 wrote:A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.
CBP completed 635 missions in the 2017 fiscal year, totalling over 5625 hours of flight.
Like the Air Force, the Coast Guard maintains a mix of older C-130Hs, but it's moving to an all J-model fleet. The fiscal 2018 budget gave the service permission to purchase its 15th J-model.
Schultz said the Coast Guard needs 22 newer C-130s overall. "We're optimistic there might be a 16th in the [fiscal 2019] budget," he said.
The service also inherited 14 C-27J Spartan aircraft from the Air Force in 2014.
Lisbon has selected Elbit Systems to provide the electronic warfare (EW) suite of its five new Embraer KC-390 tactical transports.
The suite includes radar and laser warning systems, an infrared (IR) missile warning systems, a countermeasures dispensing system, DIRCM (Direction IR countermeasures) and an active electronic countermeasures system, says Elbit.
The deal is subject to a Portuguese government approval process, says Elbit. The cost of the deal was not disclosed.
...
Collapse of a joint venture agreement between Boeing and Embraer to promote the Embraer C-390 Millennium will likely make it more difficult to sell the medium-lift transport outside of Brazil, seriously hurting the overall sales of the aircraft programme.
...
Establishing a joint venture with Boeing opened up the possibility that Embraer could establish a production line in the USA and sell the C-390 to Washington. A production line in the USA, via Boeing, could allow the joint venture to leverage the US government’s Foreign Military Sales security assistance programme which would make it easier to sell the C-390 to international customers.
Now, both options are gone.
Boeing says it plans to retain a master teaming agreement with Embraer, signed in 2012, to jointly market and support the C-390 aircraft. The company declines to comment on the differences between the marketing agreement and the joint venture.
...
Ozair wrote:texl1649 wrote:A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.
I don’t believe the knowledge gap is that great. Given the USAF, US Army, USN and USMC all use drones as well as Homeland Security so the process should be well documented to get to an operational drone capability.
Border Protection, via DHS drones, is probably the perfect example and is increasing in numbers and flight hours every year with drones now a standard tool for use by the service.CBP completed 635 missions in the 2017 fiscal year, totalling over 5625 hours of flight.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/10/us-b ... er-before/
I expect DHS would be close to flying the same hours with drones today that the Coast Guard flies with manned fixed wing aircraft.
Back to potential Coast Guard use of the KC-390, the current plan is to replace all existing C-130Hs with the J in the next few years and expects to continue to receive funding for that in future budgets.Like the Air Force, the Coast Guard maintains a mix of older C-130Hs, but it's moving to an all J-model fleet. The fiscal 2018 budget gave the service permission to purchase its 15th J-model.
Schultz said the Coast Guard needs 22 newer C-130s overall. "We're optimistic there might be a 16th in the [fiscal 2019] budget," he said.
The service also inherited 14 C-27J Spartan aircraft from the Air Force in 2014.
https://www.military.com/defensetech/20 ... ogram.html
Given the arrival of the C-27Js I expect the replacement of the CN-235s (HC-144s in USCG service) by the CN-295 is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to expand the C-130/C-27 combination, noting the KC-390 is a C-130 sized aircraft and not a CN-295 sized aircraft, and then bring in unmanned aircraft to lift the flight hours and overall surveillance capability.
texl1649 wrote:
Apparently Leonardo has a customer somewhere for an updated C-27J they have built and plan to deliver in 2021. I doubt it’s for the US Coast Guard, but will be interesting indeed to see who the customer is.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 84.article
texl1649 wrote:Ozair wrote:texl1649 wrote:A massive redefinition of surveillance/SAR for the USCG to incorporate a drone fleet to replace the CN235’s/C27J’s isn’t likely in a single generation. It’s not exactly a SOCOM type of forward thinking/rapid change organization.
I don’t believe the knowledge gap is that great. Given the USAF, US Army, USN and USMC all use drones as well as Homeland Security so the process should be well documented to get to an operational drone capability.
Border Protection, via DHS drones, is probably the perfect example and is increasing in numbers and flight hours every year with drones now a standard tool for use by the service.CBP completed 635 missions in the 2017 fiscal year, totalling over 5625 hours of flight.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/10/us-b ... er-before/
I expect DHS would be close to flying the same hours with drones today that the Coast Guard flies with manned fixed wing aircraft.
Back to potential Coast Guard use of the KC-390, the current plan is to replace all existing C-130Hs with the J in the next few years and expects to continue to receive funding for that in future budgets.Like the Air Force, the Coast Guard maintains a mix of older C-130Hs, but it's moving to an all J-model fleet. The fiscal 2018 budget gave the service permission to purchase its 15th J-model.
Schultz said the Coast Guard needs 22 newer C-130s overall. "We're optimistic there might be a 16th in the [fiscal 2019] budget," he said.
The service also inherited 14 C-27J Spartan aircraft from the Air Force in 2014.
https://www.military.com/defensetech/20 ... ogram.html
Given the arrival of the C-27Js I expect the replacement of the CN-235s (HC-144s in USCG service) by the CN-295 is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to expand the C-130/C-27 combination, noting the KC-390 is a C-130 sized aircraft and not a CN-295 sized aircraft, and then bring in unmanned aircraft to lift the flight hours and overall surveillance capability.
Apparently Leonardo has a customer somewhere for an updated C-27J they have built and plan to deliver in 2021. I doubt it’s for the US Coast Guard, but will be interesting indeed to see who the customer is.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 84.article