bigjku
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:22 am

Nomadd wrote:
Anybody thinking that the extra speed isn't a major thing can spend a few hours under fire, waiting for support to show. Rapid response has never been more important than it is today.


Rapid response in this case isn’t just dictated by speed but also by numbers of airframes available. If we can build these things for the cost of an upgraded UH-60 and deploy them to rougher forward bases then sure it’s better. If numbers get slashed in half and we have to support them all at major airfields then you may not see much gain in many scenarios. Anyone care to guess what these things might cost?

You also have to be able to use he speed operationally. Tilted forward you have to fly like an airplane rather than move like a helicopter. That reduces your ability to use terrain to mask your movements making you somewhat more vulnerable than a standard helicopter if we are doing something anywhere we don’t have abject air dominance and total SEAD accomplished.

I can see the case for them in many roles. But I am doubtful on them replacing the large number of utility helicopters for the reasons above plus many others.
 
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Tugger
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:35 pm

IADFCO wrote:
Interesting comment. New engines, no matter how advanced, will not let the UH-60 meet FVL/JMR speed requirements, but will indeed put pressure on showing that the extra speed is really needed and worth the extra cost and complexity.

To my knowledge the primary issue with current helicopters and speed always comes down to the advancing rotor going supersonic. A dual, counter-rotating set-up (coaxial etc.) eliminates the retreating rotor problem but the advancing rotor always contends with the supersonic problem. Pusher props and jets allow the rotors to be slowed and tilt rotors obviously eliminate the issue as well.

For a work horse, a conventional helo with a new engine will always win. but for speed, the search for a winner continues.

Tugg
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Ozair
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:58 am

The V-280 continues to progress through testing hitting 250kts and they are looking to get to 280kts next year. They have also flown 83 hours since last December which is quite a reasonable number for a single development aircraft at this stage.

Bell V-280 to focus on manoeuvrability after flying 250kt

Bell’s V-280 demonstration programme plans to continue to expand the tiltrotor’s flight envelope, with additional focus on manoeuvrability, after reaching 250kt this September.

So far, the aircraft has been tested on 50˚ banked turns at 200kt, which is the equivalent of 1.8g, says Vince Tobin, Bell executive vice-president for military business. During upcoming tests the manufacturer expects the aircraft to fly turns that generate more than 3g, he says.

The company has also been testing for about six months the aircraft’s ability to perform pirouette manoeuvres – flights where the tiltrotor spins around its center axis while remaining level and moving in a straight line.

“The aircraft is extremely agile in what we call helicopter mode,” says Tobin. “Even in significant wind conditions the aircraft has yaw and roll ability at low speeds that’s really unmatched.”

The company aims to push the rotorcraft to its 280kt top speed goal early next year.

This past fall the aircraft demonstrated a 4,500ft per minute (1,372m per minute) rate of climb.

“That’s due to the fact that you’ve got some relatively large engines from a horsepower perspective, and an airplane that’s just got lots of lift when you are using both the wings and rotor system,” says Tobin.

With about 83h of flight time on the V-280 since it first took flight in December 2017, Bell says it’s pointing out to the US Army that its tiltrotor has displayed a high level of readiness, making it a lower risk option should the service choose it for a production contract.

“We’ve been able to progress through the flight test programme and really not have anything not perform as we’ve expected it to perform,” says Tobin. “We’ve made significant progress. We’ve got a lot of hours flown. And most of that indicates the technology readiness level was pretty high and even at the manufacturing readiness level is high.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-454523/

Image
 
itchief
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:01 pm

 
texl1649
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:17 pm

Has Bell explored/shared any data on a SAR variant of this? It would seem to be able to cover a lot of ground quickly in a search role if the right equipment could be employed.
 
IADFCO
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:26 pm

High speed performance of the V-280 has never been an issue, that's its strong point. The issue is hover and low speed performance and maneuverability. As to the downwash, it's not easy to find firm figures about the rotor diameter. On the web I have found an estimate of 35 ft reconstructed from available pictures, which seems reasonable. At 35 ft and 30K lb weight, the downwash would be about 80% of that of a V-22 (at 38 ft diameter and 53k lbs) as downwash scales with the square root of thrust over disk area, i.e., 40 vs 50 mph (generous rounding, these are back of the envelope numbers).
 
itchief
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:34 pm

Bell is now waiting for the Army to pony up funding before anymore testing will be done on the V-280.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-455337/
 
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Tugger
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:24 am

itchief wrote:
Bell is now waiting for the Army to pony up funding before anymore testing will be done on the V-280.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-455337/

There is still a lot of development to go for this too. No one should think this baby is ready to enter any service. Not that it isn't doing great and is a remarkable job for what it is, but it is a technology demonstrator. Focused on developing and testing the transmission systems involved for the rotor pivot (and yes, other elements as well).

While a lot is already known by Bell with their experience with the MV-22, the V-280 flying at 280 knots in this form does not mean it can hit it in a combat form. Without a lot more work. The rotor-fold systems need to be developed, and most importantly the entire wing pivot/fold system is missing from this prototype. Additionally combat hardening, communications, in flight refueling, troop carriage inside etc. all need to be sussed out.

Bell has a bunch of cool display models showing what they want to do:
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/08/bel ... -in-works/

I am impressed by this bird, Bell has done quite a good job with what they have developed but there is a loooong way to go (I don't think I am saying anything that most here don't already know). I am sure they can develop a combat level platform but now the real guess is how much will it cost and can the platform as presented achieve the needed requirements or if not how much more money and development will that take (could take a whole now platform).

Tugg
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itchief
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:49 pm

Tugger wrote:
itchief wrote:
Bell is now waiting for the Army to pony up funding before anymore testing will be done on the V-280.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-455337/

There is still a lot of development to go for this too. No one should think this baby is ready to enter any service. Not that it isn't doing great and is a remarkable job for what it is, but it is a technology demonstrator. Focused on developing and testing the transmission systems involved for the rotor pivot (and yes, other elements as well).

While a lot is already known by Bell with their experience with the MV-22, the V-280 flying at 280 knots in this form does not mean it can hit it in a combat form. Without a lot more work. The rotor-fold systems need to be developed, and most importantly the entire wing pivot/fold system is missing from this prototype. Additionally combat hardening, communications, in flight refueling, troop carriage inside etc. all need to be sussed out.

Bell has a bunch of cool display models showing what they want to do:
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/08/bel ... -in-works/

I am impressed by this bird, Bell has done quite a good job with what they have developed but there is a loooong way to go (I don't think I am saying anything that most here don't already know). I am sure they can develop a combat level platform but now the real guess is how much will it cost and can the platform as presented achieve the needed requirements or if not how much more money and development will that take (could take a whole now platform).

Tugg


This was built for what the U.S. Army has been planning for, it is part of the Joint Multi-Role demonstrator program that is being funded by the Army. I doubt that a total redesign would make much sense after dumping $$$$'s into the V-280. Bell has been testing the tilt rotor for what, 50 years with the xv-3, xv-15, v-22 and v-280.
 
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:10 pm

itchief wrote:
This was built for what the U.S. Army has been planning for, it is part of the Joint Multi-Role demonstrator program that is being funded by the Army. I doubt that a total redesign would make much sense after dumping $$$$'s into the V-280. Bell has been testing the tilt rotor for what, 50 years with the xv-3, xv-15, v-22 and v-280.

Well....

The Army has only put $6.5 million into it so far, the rest of the Bell program funding is from Bell itself (the amount Bell is investing is not known). Bell will want to recoup some if not most of the internal development costs. And you can be sure they haven't just "dumped" money into it. What you have here is a proof of concept article that also shows off very well but as I said, is not anywhere near ready for deployment. Though Bell has significant combat and production experience to draw from, I am thinking many hundreds of millions if not at least a billion more to make it combat ready. And that will come from the military.

Look at what is flying. Look at what is proposed by Bell and needed by the military. The prototypes cannot pivot the wing, that critical system will need to be developed and added. The interior is not fully known or kitted out (communication, troop needs, etc.), missile and other armament systems are not there or fully known yet. The additional weight all these things will bring is not there and flying at 280 kts nor is it known what exactly that will do.

This is a technology demonstrator, just as the Army funded program is titled. To go any further will require the military to significantly step up funding. To follow the article noted just up thread, Bell wants money to move any further:
During an earning call the same day, Donnelly praised the program, but said its future is tightly coupled to the Army’s upcoming fiscal 2020 budget.

“It'll affect our pace a lot,” Donnelly said of the upcoming budget. “We have no insight into what the [PB-20] looks like at this stage of the game. … At this point, look, we'll have no choice but to roll back any funding that we put into it, waiting to see what the army is going to do, because we've done what we can do.”

Bell is “excited” to continue demonstrating the Valor’s aerobatic agility and other capabilities, as it has done for Army officials, the media and local and federal lawmakers, Donnelly said.

V-280 is one of two prototypes participating in the Army’s ongoing Joint Multi-role Technology Demonstration (JMR-TD) program.

https://www.rotorandwing.com/2019/01/25 ... nvestment/

Tugg
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Max Q
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:16 am

280 knots is not bad but there are civilian an military turboprops that can exceed that by almost 100 knots


The SF340 can do 370 knots, the Q400 close to that and the C130J 350


If they’re going to make the most of this concept it seems like they should push towards higher speeds
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Ozair
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:38 am

Max Q wrote:
280 knots is not bad but there are civilian an military turboprops that can exceed that by almost 100 knots


The SF340 can do 370 knots, the Q400 close to that and the C130J 350


If they’re going to make the most of this concept it seems like they should push towards higher speeds

Yeah but Max none of them land or take off vertically...
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:56 am

Max Q wrote:
280 knots is not bad but there are civilian an military turboprops that can exceed that by almost 100 knots

The SF340 can do 370 knots, the Q400 close to that and the C130J 350

Please do not take offense if I offer a small correction.

The C130J is an overpowered military brute, so that should definitely be capable of hauling ass.
The Q400 is well known as an exceedingly fast ship.
But to see them bracketed with the SF340 immediately worried me.

Here is the actual data from Wikipedia
C130J; Max speed; 362 kts
Q400; Max speed - couldn't find that anywhere. High speed cruise; 360 kts

but
SF340; Never Exceed Speed = 282 kts :shakehead:

Perhaps you would have had more impact if you had mentioned the fastest of them all; the A400M; cruise 422kts :o
(if you want faster than that, you probably need to consider a swept-wing Tu-95)

But in terms of valid comparisons with the V-280, I suggest slightly smaller transports are more relevant.
e.g. C-295 (311 kts);
Against that, 280 kts is none too shabby
FWIW even the jet powered S-3 Viking was only good for 429 kts at sea level.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:50 am

Ozair wrote:
Max Q wrote:
280 knots is not bad but there are civilian an military turboprops that can exceed that by almost 100 knots


The SF340 can do 370 knots, the Q400 close to that and the C130J 350


If they’re going to make the most of this concept it seems like they should push towards higher speeds

Yeah but Max none of them land or take off vertically...




Very true, and this flexibility is what makes the tilt rotor so useful


I’m just curious why it can’t go faster, it certainly has enough power, Is the rotor tip
speed the limiting factor here ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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Max Q
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:55 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Max Q wrote:
280 knots is not bad but there are civilian an military turboprops that can exceed that by almost 100 knots

The SF340 can do 370 knots, the Q400 close to that and the C130J 350

Please do not take offense if I offer a small correction.

The C130J is an overpowered military brute, so that should definitely be capable of hauling ass.
The Q400 is well known as an exceedingly fast ship.
But to see them bracketed with the SF340 immediately worried me.

Here is the actual data from Wikipedia
C130J; Max speed; 362 kts
Q400; Max speed - couldn't find that anywhere. High speed cruise; 360 kts

but
SF340; Never Exceed Speed = 282 kts :shakehead:

Perhaps you would have had more impact if you had mentioned the fastest of them all; the A400M; cruise 422kts :o
(if you want faster than that, you probably need to consider a swept-wing Tu-95)

But in terms of valid comparisons with the V-280, I suggest slightly smaller transports are more relevant.
e.g. C-295 (311 kts);
Against that, 280 kts is none too shabby
FWIW even the jet powered S-3 Viking was only good for 429 kts at sea level.




Whoops, I did make a mistake there and I should have known better after accumulating over 1000 hours in the SF340


In the Saab we used to cruise around 270
knots true air speed


I meant to quote specs for the Saab 2000
which is much faster, 100 knots in fact with
a 370 knot TAS cruise



Incidentally, you’re mixing up indicated air speed and true air speed


VMO (never exceed speed) on the SF 340 was an indicated 250
knots
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texl1649
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:57 pm

The V280 is basically a (modern/carbon) helicopter frame, with a set of stubby wings and a hybrid rotor system from the two turbines that is almost a turboprop but less efficient for horizontal flight.

The point is, it’s a lot more draggy especially over about 100 knots than a Saab 2000 is, and it’s really more like a helicopter frame, with vertical takeoff included, than some maximum efficiency modern turboprop airliner. There is a trade off when figuring out how to generate lift to take off vertically, and vice versa, vs. using a half mile of runway; the trade off involves speed and net efficiency and drag. Similarly, the SB1 defiant and Airbus Racer have trade offs that preclude them hitting the top speed of an ATR or S2000.

Just as you can buy a souped up M-series BMW SUV today with a ludicrous supercharged V8 making over 400 HP, it still isn’t as quick to 60 MPH in a drag or slalom as a proper sports car of the same marque, but that’s not to say it isn’t more capable all in all than a mid-90’s Ford Explorer.
 
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:09 pm

And one of the biggest trade-offs is the rotor/prop design. It must be capable of performing as a helo rotor, with all the control elements that entails, then transition and perform as a propeller. That is a lot to ask and difficult to balance in design. The blades are much longer and larger than any normal turboprop blade would be, yet much shorter with more "twist" etc. than any optimal helicopter rotor blade would be.

Tugg
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Ozair
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:21 am

In place of a dedicated RW thread (see what I did there Keesje…) I will post this info here on the Defiant given the rival nature of the aircraft to the V-280

Sikorsky-Boeing Defiant completes ground run

Sikorsky and Boeing have provided the first video of the SB>1 Defiant helicopter, one of two designs competing in the Army’s Joint Multi-Role technology demonstrator program, showing a ground run at a company facility in Florida.

That program is designed to inform the requirements for the Future Vertical Lift family of systems, set to enter service in the 2030s.

The first flight of the aircraft has been long-awaited, and in late 2018, the two companies confirmed it would be delayed until 2019. According to a statement released with the video, the ground run moves it closer to taking to the skies.

The unconventional rotor system used on the aircraft is based on Sikorsky’s X2 technology, and according to the development team, offers advanced agility and maneuverability.

The Defiant’s competitor is Bell’s V-280 Valor tilt-rotor, which has been flying since late 2017.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/01 ... round-run/

There is a video at the link above. Quite a menacing looking aircraft but I personally prefer the V-280.
 
Max Q
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:25 am

Ozair wrote:
In place of a dedicated RW thread (see what I did there Keesje…) I will post this info here on the Defiant given the rival nature of the aircraft to the V-280

Sikorsky-Boeing Defiant completes ground run

Sikorsky and Boeing have provided the first video of the SB>1 Defiant helicopter, one of two designs competing in the Army’s Joint Multi-Role technology demonstrator program, showing a ground run at a company facility in Florida.

That program is designed to inform the requirements for the Future Vertical Lift family of systems, set to enter service in the 2030s.

The first flight of the aircraft has been long-awaited, and in late 2018, the two companies confirmed it would be delayed until 2019. According to a statement released with the video, the ground run moves it closer to taking to the skies.

The unconventional rotor system used on the aircraft is based on Sikorsky’s X2 technology, and according to the development team, offers advanced agility and maneuverability.

The Defiant’s competitor is Bell’s V-280 Valor tilt-rotor, which has been flying since late 2017.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/01 ... round-run/

There is a video at the link above. Quite a menacing looking aircraft but I personally prefer the V-280.



I like the way the Defiant looks, seems like
a better solution to operating into confined areas than the tilt rotor


Is it supposed to reach the same speeds ?
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WIederling
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:30 am

Ozair wrote:
There is a video at the link above. Quite a menacing looking aircraft but I personally prefer the V-280.


Techwise "menacing" doesn't help in any way. :-)

What I do wonder is if the Flettner intermeshing rotor design ( modern application Kaman )
would not be a better fit.
( same arrangement of advancing and retreating blade on both sides. you
can have the retreating blade go at zero airspeed.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Reddevil556
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:11 am

Tugger wrote:
And one of the biggest trade-offs is the rotor/prop design. It must be capable of performing as a helo rotor, with all the control elements that entails, then transition and perform as a propeller. That is a lot to ask and difficult to balance in design. The blades are much longer and larger than any normal turboprop blade would be, yet much shorter with more "twist" etc. than any optimal helicopter rotor blade would be.

Tugg


What is likelihood for the development of a tilt rotor gunship? I have always wondered why a smaller rotary wing gunship was never fielded for the CH47. Maybe it’s the physics of the flight characteristics...something that might make sense to an engineer and not a grunt like me
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
Max Q
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:58 am

Reddevil556 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
And one of the biggest trade-offs is the rotor/prop design. It must be capable of performing as a helo rotor, with all the control elements that entails, then transition and perform as a propeller. That is a lot to ask and difficult to balance in design. The blades are much longer and larger than any normal turboprop blade would be, yet much shorter with more "twist" etc. than any optimal helicopter rotor blade would be.

Tugg


What is likelihood for the development of a tilt rotor gunship? I have always wondered why a smaller rotary wing gunship was never fielded for the CH47. Maybe it’s the physics of the flight characteristics...something that might make sense to an engineer and not a grunt like me




Don’t know how to link it but there was a Chinook gunship developed and used in
Vietnam, googlable I’m sure !
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Tugger
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:58 am

Looking at the rotor more, there is a lot going on under that spinner. It is huge, especially compared to the MV-22. Of course the nature of the design, a gearbox that allows only the rotor assembly to pivots likely require shifting a lot of elements. Still has me wondering what is under the spinner.

Tugg
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:47 am

Reddevil556 wrote:
What is likelihood for the development of a tilt rotor gunship? I have always wondered why a smaller rotary wing gunship was never fielded for the CH47. Maybe it’s the physics of the flight characteristics...something that might make sense to an engineer and not a grunt like me


gunship as in AC-130 Spectre or gunship as in Mil-24 Hind ?

stable gun platform, protective armor carrying capability, robustness, damage tolerance
Murphy is an optimist
 
Reddevil556
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:40 pm

WIederling wrote:
Reddevil556 wrote:
What is likelihood for the development of a tilt rotor gunship? I have always wondered why a smaller rotary wing gunship was never fielded for the CH47. Maybe it’s the physics of the flight characteristics...something that might make sense to an engineer and not a grunt like me


gunship as in AC-130 Spectre or gunship as in Mil-24 Hind ?

stable gun platform, protective armor carrying capability, robustness, damage tolerance


Gunship as in side mounted armaments in which the A/C flies in a circular fashion similar to an AC130 Spectre. Having a rotary version would allow it to be deployed from smaller outposts instead of airfirled. Just my thoughts from my study abroad time in Afghanistan
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
texl1649
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:33 pm

That is called the AH-64 Apache. Tiltrotors/larger slow moving vertical lift (rotary wing) aircraft won’t ever hold still/slow to fire sideways over a battlefield. Tiltrotors in general (and chinook) are quite vulnerable to small arms fire. Boeing has supposedly, of some interest perhaps, been experimenting with/pitching a compound Apache. My guess is they figure they can produce these “derivatives” cheaper than a new program to the US Army, allowing the customer to focus acquisitions on cargo FVL, sort of like a rotor copy of the super hornet pitch (allowing ATF funding to go forward for F-35).

https://www.janes.com/article/84079/boe ... he-concept

Operationally, though, as in Afghan, the Army almost never forward positions Apaches anywhere but highly secure/large compounds. They’re expensive toys to risk losing to mortar/terrorist attacks.
 
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Tugger
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:55 pm

Speed is the other advantage of the Spectre, a benefit for gunship ops. Get in fast, be able to get close enough but still angage a target beyond their responsive weapons range, and get out fast.

And before anyone points out that the V280 is faster than the AC130 Spectre, the Spectre is already 60kts slower than the C-130. All those things sticking out the sides along with their added weight will slow anything down. (I'll also note there is no way any future variant V280 will have the weapon capacity of a cargo plane...)

Tugg
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Reddevil556
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:45 pm

We had FARPs in Afghanistan where Apaches could stage, but yes they mostly hung out at the mega FOBs. I wouldn't expect any rotary wing A/C to have near the fire power, but rather similar platform to the Spectre just in smaller package. Something like a tilt rotor in a gunship version with a 20mm gatling gun along with a 7.62 minigun would be neat. Again I am thinking more down the lines of a special operations mission platform. It could be a lot easier to sneak a tilt rotor aircraft into an area than forward deploying a Spectre.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
Ozair
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:26 am

texl1649 wrote:
That is called the AH-64 Apache. Tiltrotors/larger slow moving vertical lift (rotary wing) aircraft won’t ever hold still/slow to fire sideways over a battlefield. Tiltrotors in general (and chinook) are quite vulnerable to small arms fire. Boeing has supposedly, of some interest perhaps, been experimenting with/pitching a compound Apache. My guess is they figure they can produce these “derivatives” cheaper than a new program to the US Army, allowing the customer to focus acquisitions on cargo FVL, sort of like a rotor copy of the super hornet pitch (allowing ATF funding to go forward for F-35).

https://www.janes.com/article/84079/boe ... he-concept

Operationally, though, as in Afghan, the Army almost never forward positions Apaches anywhere but highly secure/large compounds. They’re expensive toys to risk losing to mortar/terrorist attacks.

Problem is Apaches aren't fast. It was common enough that the CH-47s outpaced the Apaches assigned to escort them to the LZ.

Reddevil556 wrote:
I wouldn't expect any rotary wing A/C to have near the fire power, but rather similar platform to the Spectre just in smaller package. Something like a tilt rotor in a gunship version with a 20mm gatling gun along with a 7.62 minigun would be neat. Again I am thinking more down the lines of a special operations mission platform. It could be a lot easier to sneak a tilt rotor aircraft into an area than forward deploying a Spectre.

Makes sense and combined with escorting other RW/tiltrotor would provide a great capability.

Bell has already hinted at gunship versions through their graphics department,

Image

Image

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/bell-ta ... r-gunship/
 
Reddevil556
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:06 am

Sweet thanks for digging that up! I remember reading/hearing about the concept, but I never realized it saw combat.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
jetmechanicdave
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:18 am

Please stay on topic of the V-280. We had to dump a few posts totally unrelated. Thanks
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texl1649
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:40 pm

I thought the Army's need for vertical lift recapitalization was on topic, sorry, especially given the discussion topics of gunship variants, and the FVL program in general (presently paused due to funding for the V280). The CSIS piece detailing the 40% decline in helo procurement from 2008 to today is illustrative of a crisis that should be driving much more rapid procurement of one of the 3 options contending for FVL, including mainly Sikorsky or Bell (V280). Regardless, here's another pretty good piece on the V280 exclusively (obviously with a pro-Bell slant.)

https://vtol.org/24612F20-B971-11E5-A4E20050568D0042
 
IADFCO
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:00 am

Pause (stop?) button confirmed for end of 2019...

https://www.rotorandwing.com/2019/03/01 ... y-funding/
 
texl1649
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:11 am

Interesting to see Rolls committing resources to provide an alternative power option here.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -v-456825/
 
itchief
Topic Author
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:46 am

Bell V-280 Valor tiltrotor reaches 300kt

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... kt-457496/
 
Ozair
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:04 am

itchief wrote:
Bell V-280 Valor tiltrotor reaches 300kt

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... kt-457496/

That is very impressive. The MV-22 has a top speed around that mark at 15k so it would be interesting to know what altitude was used for this test flight.
 
estorilm
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 pm

texl1649 wrote:
The V280 is basically a (modern/carbon) helicopter frame, with a set of stubby wings and a hybrid rotor system from the two turbines that is almost a turboprop but less efficient for horizontal flight.

The point is, it’s a lot more draggy especially over about 100 knots than a Saab 2000 is, and it’s really more like a helicopter frame, with vertical takeoff included, than some maximum efficiency modern turboprop airliner. There is a trade off when figuring out how to generate lift to take off vertically, and vice versa, vs. using a half mile of runway; the trade off involves speed and net efficiency and drag. Similarly, the SB1 defiant and Airbus Racer have trade offs that preclude them hitting the top speed of an ATR or S2000.

Just as you can buy a souped up M-series BMW SUV today with a ludicrous supercharged V8 making over 400 HP, it still isn’t as quick to 60 MPH in a drag or slalom as a proper sports car of the same marque, but that’s not to say it isn’t more capable all in all than a mid-90’s Ford Explorer.

I get what you're saying, but you're a bit off with the analogy. ;) It's not an "M series" - it's an X5 M (as in the X5 is more of the series, M is the trim). It's also a twin-turbo V8 with closer to 600hp than 400 / supercharged. ;)

I think the trade-offs are factored into the designs for these things though, as it's basically a core requirement that they're faster and more modern than anything before them. They don't need to be as fast as fixed-wing aircraft, but like the V-22 - it's nice to have the option of a fast attack helicopter for escort if required.
 
Ozair
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:38 am

An interesting mix of vendors given LM now owns Sikorsky, which is working on the SB-1 in competition to the V-280, but tied up with Bell before that acquisition to bring this onto the V-280. First time this has been used on a rotary wing aircraft and from the article is likely to transition over to other platforms including a demo on the UH-60M. It is a great technology which should hopefully reduce issues with rotor or airframe clearance for RW aircraft flying in and out of tight LZs.

Bell V-280 flies with system that can see through aircraft

Bell’s experimental V-280 Valor tiltrotor, built for a U.S. Army technology demonstration, has flown for the first time with an integrated system that provides the pilots and aircrew a 360-degree view through the skin of the aircraft.

At the Army Aviation Association of America’s annual summit, Lockheed Martin displayed footage collected from its Pilotage Distributed Aperture System’s first flight over central Texas on the V-280.

PDAS “is the first fully integrated tactical distributed aperture system in the history of vertical lift,” Rita Flaherty, Lockheed Martin vice president of strategy and business development within its Missiles and Fire Control business, said at the summit.

The company has a long line of firsts when it comes to multifunctional sensor systems, she said, to include developing and fielding the first electro-optical targeting system for rotary-wing aircraft — which has been on the AH-64 since its inception. That system is a combination of a targeting sensor, an electro-optical day sensor and a pilotage capability, which are all fused with a fire control radar.

“But in the next generation of vertical lift, we turned our attention to a multifunctional, situational-awareness pilotage threat-warning capability suite to develop and bring forward for future vertical lift,” Flaherty said.

...

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -aircraft/

More at the link.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:03 pm

estorilm wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
Just as you can buy a souped up M-series BMW SUV today with a ludicrous supercharged V8 making over 400 HP....

I get what you're saying, but you're a bit off with the analogy. ;) It's not an "M series" - it's an X5 M (as in the X5 is more of the series, M is the trim)

As this is strictly off-topic, I will try to keep this short.
Lot's of people (including the motor trade) use the term M-series freely.
Strictly speaking the only full M-cars are badged fairly obviously as M3, M5, M Roadster, etc
However, these are also recognisably derived from 3-series, 5-series, and Z3/Z4 - so it really depends who's asking.... :lol:

Additionally there are a number of vehicles that have benefitted from M-tech enhancements which can vary from simple styling packages through to serious engine upgrades. In these cases, the "M" is added as an afterthought.

Now we come to the X5 M
This is indeed a full M-series vehicle! No if's, no but's.
The problem faced by BMW was that if the followed pervious nomenclature, they would either end up with another M5, or worse, an MX5. And Mazda would have something to say about that. :duck:
So they made it "X5 M"

I should stop there, but as always, there are exceptions to the exceptions.
Whilst the X5 M is full M-series, the X5 M50d is only deemed an "M-performance model", and not a full M-series. :o

There are other exceptions as well, but perhaps we should leave it there and get back to the V-280, or in my case the CV-22s that kept me awake last night. :white:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
itchief
Topic Author
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Re: V-280 Valor flies for the first time

Wed May 22, 2019 6:37 pm

Bell’s V-280 completes low-speed agility tests


https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/0 ... rd%20Brief

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