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Slug71
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Tue May 29, 2018 5:06 am

"HAL ready to supply 40 more Sukhoi Su 30-MKI fighters to IAF"

http://zeenews.india.com/india/hal-read ... 0.html/amp
 
Ozair
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:34 pm

No surprise that all six manufacturers have responded to the RFI. Seems to be moving at a reasonable pace compared to other fighter jet competitions going on right now.

Six global companies respond to India's RFI for 110 fighter jets

India’s quest for procuring 110 fighter aircraft for its air force is progressing with six global aviation majors having responded to the Request for Information for the program.

The six firms which are competing for the IAF contract worth billions of dollars are Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Russian United Aircraft Corporation’s MiG-35.

India’s quest for procuring 110 fighter aircraft for its air force is progressing with six global aviation majors having responded to the Request for Information for the program.

The six firms which are competing for the IAF contract worth billions of dollars are Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Russian United Aircraft Corporation’s MiG-35.

“All six firms have responded "said IAF government sources. Friday was the last day for responding to the RFI.

The aircraft makers which responded to the RFI would have mentioned the operational and technical parameters of their military platforms. They have also indicated the fly-away price of the aircraft. The IAF will now draft its technical requirements for the tenders that can be issued within the next three to six months. The competition to give India’s new fighter jet will start after the global players respond to these tenders. As per current plans, Indian private sector manufacturers are expected to tie up with the winning global player to manufacture these planes in India.

The six firms had competed in an earlier attempt to provide 126 fighter aircraft to the IAF, known as the Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program. The MMRCA was scrapped after Prime Minister Narendra Modi in April 2015 had announced that India would instead procure 36 Rafale jets from France in a government to government deal.

Later, the defence ministry had another plan of procuring 114 single engine fighter jets with foreign collaboration at an estimated cost of Rs 1.15 lakh crore. This plan was also scrapped earlier this year. In April, the defence ministry issued a RFI to procure 110 fighter jets. This project includes both single and twin engine fighter aircraft. Two of the competitors in this contest are single engine fighter- the F-16 and the Gripen, while the remaining four are twin-engined.

According to the RFI, the procurement of the 110 aircraft should have 15 per cent aircraft in fly away condition and the remaining 85 per cent to be made in India by a Strategic Partner. Through the RFI, the ministry has invited global aviation manufacturers to participate in the project and offer Transfer of Technology for the indigenous manufacture of the aircraft in India.

...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 887437.cms
 
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moo
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:08 am

Ozair wrote:
No surprise that all six manufacturers have responded to the RFI. Seems to be moving at a reasonable pace compared to other fighter jet competitions going on right now.

Six global companies respond to India's RFI for 110 fighter jets

India’s quest for procuring 110 fighter aircraft for its air force is progressing with six global aviation majors having responded to the Request for Information for the program.

The six firms which are competing for the IAF contract worth billions of dollars are Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Russian United Aircraft Corporation’s MiG-35.

India’s quest for procuring 110 fighter aircraft for its air force is progressing with six global aviation majors having responded to the Request for Information for the program.

The six firms which are competing for the IAF contract worth billions of dollars are Boeing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Russian United Aircraft Corporation’s MiG-35.

“All six firms have responded "said IAF government sources. Friday was the last day for responding to the RFI.

The aircraft makers which responded to the RFI would have mentioned the operational and technical parameters of their military platforms. They have also indicated the fly-away price of the aircraft. The IAF will now draft its technical requirements for the tenders that can be issued within the next three to six months. The competition to give India’s new fighter jet will start after the global players respond to these tenders. As per current plans, Indian private sector manufacturers are expected to tie up with the winning global player to manufacture these planes in India.

The six firms had competed in an earlier attempt to provide 126 fighter aircraft to the IAF, known as the Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program. The MMRCA was scrapped after Prime Minister Narendra Modi in April 2015 had announced that India would instead procure 36 Rafale jets from France in a government to government deal.

Later, the defence ministry had another plan of procuring 114 single engine fighter jets with foreign collaboration at an estimated cost of Rs 1.15 lakh crore. This plan was also scrapped earlier this year. In April, the defence ministry issued a RFI to procure 110 fighter jets. This project includes both single and twin engine fighter aircraft. Two of the competitors in this contest are single engine fighter- the F-16 and the Gripen, while the remaining four are twin-engined.

According to the RFI, the procurement of the 110 aircraft should have 15 per cent aircraft in fly away condition and the remaining 85 per cent to be made in India by a Strategic Partner. Through the RFI, the ministry has invited global aviation manufacturers to participate in the project and offer Transfer of Technology for the indigenous manufacture of the aircraft in India.

...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 887437.cms


Why oh why do companies keep on responding to the Indian government?! This debacle has been going on for a decade now, what makes them think that this will actually result in any firm orders being delivered?!

This is like watching a bunch of people deliberately slamming a door on their nads, while insisting it's all going to be worth it....
 
Ozair
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:22 pm

Looks like India will try and fast track the selection by not conducting flight trials of any of the candidates but of course as with any large military acquisition from India politics will likely play the deciding factor.

To Save Time Govt May Bypass Field Trials in MMRCA 2.0

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is working on formulating a set of QRs (qualitative requirements) against which it is likely to benchmark the bids submitted by six major aircraft manufacturers for supply of 110 fighter jets, instead of going through the tortuous process of field trials and evaluation, as was done in the previous such competition, more popularly known as the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which underwent a long process for eight years.

The latest competition, announced in April, was open to both single and twin engine combat jets like last time. The deadline to submit the bids was 6 July. All the six competitors–American firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russian Aircraft Corporation, Dassault of France, Swedish manufacturer Saab and European consortium, Eurofighter GmbH–had also participated in the earlier tender for supply of 126 fighters which was eventually withdrawn before India decided to buy 36 Rafale jets from the French under a G-to-G (government to government) deal signed in September 2016.

Having tested the six aircraft in contention during the extensive field trials in the earlier competition, the IAF more or less knows the capabilities that each of the aircraft bring to the table. The Request for Information (RFI), put out in April had a detailed questionnaire for all competitors, seeking details of upgrades that the aircraft fielded for the latest tender would have undergone in the intervening years since the fields trials under MMRCA took place. The aircraft are: four twin-engine fighters–the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Block III, Eurofighter Typhoon, MiG-35 and Rafale and two single-engine jets– F-16 Block 70 and Gripen E.

The IAF’s acquisition branch is now scrutinising all the six bids, running into thousands of pages. The exercise is likely to take at least three-four months before all the six documents are placed in a common matrix and then evaluated against the set of QRs that are being prepared separately. The next step, according to informed sources, will be to shortlist two or three aircraft that meet the air force requirement. “Another round of field trials is not necessary given that we already know the capability of each of the aircraft. Since our fighter squadron strength is now in a precarious position, we need to close this deal as fast as possible,” explained a defence official familiar with the process.

Once the shortlist is ready, the IAF will take the matter to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and seek directions on the next steps. The government will have to decide quickly on how to make the final selection.
Top decision makers in the government have pointed out that none of India’s fighter jet acquisitions in the past have come through a competitive bidding. The only time it was tried was in the MMRCA tender. Finally though the process had to be scrapped and the Rafales bought through a G-to-G deal because of differences in calculating the cost of manufacturing. So, a repeat of that process in MMRCA 2.0 looks unlikely. Although there is merit in this approach, the final decision will depend on how the government wants to use this huge purchase order to its advantage and what the strategic environment is when the time to make the choice comes which, by all indications, will be after the next general elections at the earliest.

http://bharatshakti.in/to-save-time-gov ... mmrca-2-0/
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:04 am

No competition! My! My!

With the Rafale Scam breaking in a big way in India and General Elections due in less than a year, dont expect the Govt to commit political suicide with another defense deal.

All about the #RafaleScam on Twitter


The 64 crore Bofors Scam had bought down Rajiv Gandhi's Govt in 1989. The 130000 crore Rafale Scam is way ahead in terms of scale! Even members of the Ruling Party have come forward to call the Rafale deal a scam:

Bofors Pales into Insignificance Before Rafale 'Scam', Allege Yaswant Sinha, Arun Shourie

The Rafale deal is a case of "monumental criminal misconduct" by the NDA government and the scam involving it is much bigger than the Bofors scandal, former Union ministers Yashwant Sinha and Arun Shourie alleged on Wednesday, demanding a time-bound probe into the contract by national auditor CAG.

Sinha and Shourie, addressing a press conference along with lawyer-activist Prashant Bhushan, raised a number of questions over the Rs 58,000 crore deal for procurement of 36 Rafale fighter jets from France.

The trio, known as strong critics of the NDA government, also accused Prime Minister Narendra Modi of single-handedly changing the parameters of the deal and that there was gross violation of mandatory procedures in finalising the contract.


The entire deal was a "textbook case of criminal misconduct, of misuse of public office and of enriching parties at the expense of the national interest and national security", they alleged, adding there was an "effort" by the government to "conceal" facts.

The Congress has been accusing massive irregularities in the Rafale deal, alleging that the government was procuring each aircraft at a cost of over Rs 1,670 crore as against Rs 526 crore finalised by the UPA government for the procurement of 126 Rafale jets. The deal negotiated by the UPA could not be inked.

The trio also rejected government's contention that the prices of the aircraft have gone up due to India-specific add-ons and weapons systems, citing a joint statement by India and France during Prime Minister Modi's visit to Paris in 2015.

They said the joint statement mentioned that the aircraft and the associated systems and weapons would be delivered to India on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force for the deal negotiated for procurement of 126 jets under the UPA government.




In this context, it is highly unlikely that any Govt will dare to go ahead with a major defense purchase to reward another crony (Adani-Gripen?) a year before the election.
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Revelation
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:56 am

Look what popped up on my Twitter:

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/09 ... -deal.html

Seems the battle is quite pitched.
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texl1649
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:25 pm

Lockheed seems pretty aggressive dubbing their Tata production bid “F-21” for what seems to be an F-16V line.

https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2019/ ... e-f21.html
 
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Devilfish
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:56 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Lockheed seems pretty aggressive dubbing their Tata production bid “F-21” for what seems to be an F-16V line.

Quite apt really, considering the F-21 served in an "aggressor" role before..... :biggrin: .....



https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... hi-455954/

Quote:
Lockheed Martin has redesignated the F-16V Block 70 as the F-21 in its offering for India's fighter requirement.

But that name is not the only thing to have appeared before: the F-21 designation is not new either. The Kfir – an Israeli development of the Dassault Mirage III with a GE Aviation J79 engine – was operated in the late 1980s and early 1990s by the US Navy and Marine Corps as an aggressor aircraft, when it was designated the F-21.
:devil:


Remains to be seen if MMRCA 2.0 wouldn't be a replay of the previous tender. :spin:
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unrave
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:22 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
India-Pakistan and India-China wars in future in just a myth.

This comment hasn't aged well.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Conflicts staged for the political benefit are not considered wars.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:37 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Conflicts staged for the political benefit are not considered wars.


All wars are political. Even religious wars are politically motivated.

bt
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Dutchy
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:11 am

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
India-Pakistan and India-China wars in future in just a myth.

This comment hasn't aged well.


All out war will probably not happen, these small battles will probably will go on for some time, until there will be a solution for Kashmir. There is no other choice then not to engage in an all-out war with nuclear weapons involved.
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unrave
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:22 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Conflicts staged for the political benefit are not considered wars.

I am a poor ESL student, so English semantics is not my strongest suit, but according to the Thesaurus published by the OED, 'war' and 'conflict' are synonyms.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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bikerthai
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:17 pm

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Conflicts staged for the political benefit are not considered wars.

I am a poor ESL student, so English semantics is not my strongest suit, but according to the Thesaurus published by the OED, 'war' and 'conflict' are synonyms.


In a narrower sense military war is typically conducted my nation states, or in the older days, tribes. Conflict can be conducted by any two or more parties. War has additional non-military usages like "War on Drugs, War on Cancer" which are "conflicts" only in a metaphorical manner.

bt
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Devilfish
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Might this give new urgency to the tender process?.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... sh-456148/


Image
https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/get ... emid=76249


It seems the Viper's stare is not as 'mesmerizing' there as elsewhere...so would this stand a better chance..... :hypnotized: .....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ho-455995/
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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unrave
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:42 am

In light of the recent events, we can safely conclude that the F-21 is no longer in consideration
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dtw2hyd
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Looks like MIC spin cycle started after the facepalm by vintage hardware.

How can NYTimes editors allow such crap, even if the author is biased?

Questions observers raised were about India stand-off strike capability because India refuses to release its own assessment of the initial strike led to this skirmish. I am curious to know if $500K Spice 2000s are worth compared to $30K JDAM/GBUs.

The aerial clash, the first by the South Asian rivals in nearly five decades, was a rare test for the Indian military — and it left observers a bit dumbfounded. While the challenges faced by the India’s armed forces are no secret, its loss of a plane last week to a country whose military is about half the size and receives a quarter of the funding was still telling.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/03/worl ... china.html
 
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william
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:26 pm

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 968978.cms

India had stated for years they were looking at MIG fighters because the capability was close to western fighters but way cheaper. Actually, India has been stating that since the 90s.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:09 pm

If drop-and-forget smart bomb technology success rate is questionable, India should acquire deep strike stealth fighters/bombers. Tomahawks even at $1Million a piece are not always precise. I am guessing Bhahmos success rate will be in the same ballpark.

India lacks the ability to recover downed pilots on their own. Apaches may fix this issue.

Recent, T-50 cancellation seems to be a dumb move on India's part.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:05 pm

How could Apaches recover downed pilots? You need CSAR helicopters for that and the willingness to go behind enemy lines.

T-50 cancellation was the smartest decision many in years. The Russians themselves all but admitted that they will only construct only a few dozens of them with less than a handful of deliveries each year.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:39 pm

So, wait 20 more years for the perfect CRH.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:54 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
How could Apaches recover downed pilots? You need CSAR helicopters for that and the willingness to go behind enemy lines.

T-50 cancellation was the smartest decision many in years. The Russians themselves all but admitted that they will only construct only a few dozens of them with less than a handful of deliveries each year.


In Iraq, they strapped people to the outside of the Apaches to recover them. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/ ... n.military
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VSMUT
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:44 pm

Spacepope wrote:
In Iraq, they strapped people to the outside of the Apaches to recover them.


That's barely a comparable situation. In Iraq they were fighting insurgents. India and Pakistan are near peers, they would have to get through extensive air defences and troops.


P1aneMad wrote:
The Russians themselves all but admitted that they will only construct only a few dozens of them with less than a handful of deliveries each year.


Only a few dozen initially and the intermediate version with less advanced engines and avionics was canned. In other words, they will go directly to the final variant on a less ambitious timescale.

Why does so much always go missing in the translation from Russian to English?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:41 am

I doubt India is completely ruling out F-21 at this stage, but they may milk based on recent events. It appears a heavily upgraded Mig-21 and a barely maintained early generation F-16 are not that different. Could it be a 2-seat F-16 trainer? The major disadvantage of Mig-21 is flight profile management, so entirely depends on a skilled pilot.
 
kelval
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:38 pm

Not sure India is really interested in the F-16.
If they build an assembly line in India, this is basically the death of HAL Tejas.
 
Ozair
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:06 pm

kelval wrote:
Not sure India is really interested in the F-16.

The F-16..F-21.. is probably an outside chance but it likely makes up ground based on acquisition and operational cost. It will almost certainly be the cheapest of the credible options to select and operate but India proved with MMRCA though that it wasn’t all about cost so it will depend on how the selection criteria is weighted between cost, capability, interoperability, domestic industry and political considerations.

kelval wrote:
If they build an assembly line in India, this is basically the death of HAL Tejas.

India’s demands for more fighter jets are so high that Tejas is assured, even at the low rate HAL can manufacture them. India needs jets and having two in country production lines would allow the legacy aircraft to be replaced more rapidly.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:45 am

Could the SH fly off India's new carrier? If yes, then you can go with a common frame for both requirements. Boeing would offer a better local manufacturing option as they will be partner with HAL and has a pipeline to the commercial sector which only Airbus can match.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Ozair
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:25 pm

The Indian fighter competition apparently continues, albeit slowly and with no defined time frame to work to. Given the continued slow deliveries of the Tejas and an ever aging fighter fleet surly at some point this has to either speed up or be given up.

India still considering a large fighter deal

The Indian defence ministry’s response to a parliamentary question suggests that a plan to obtain 110 advanced fighters is inching through New Delhi’s bureaucracy.

The response followed a question posted by a parliamentarian regarding India’s ambitions for “public private partnerships” to develop indigenous manufacturing capabilities.

“The evaluation of responses to the request for information (RFI) and finalisation of SQR (Services Qualitative Requirements) have commenced,” said defence ministry official Mohan Naidu Kinjarapu in a written response.

The SQR could set the stage for a request for proposals, though the timeline is unclear.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 11-459470/
 
Ozair
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Re: India looks to start new fighter competition

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 am

I expect as things continue to drag with the new fighter acquisition we will see India continue to top up Su-30MKI orders. Another 18 in this prospective order and I would say at least a couple more orders this size in subsequent years is likely.

Indian Air Force seeking to acquire 18 more Su-30MKI fighters from Russia

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is seeking to acquire an additional 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKI multirole fighter aircraft from Russia, according to Vladimir Drozhzhov, the deputy director of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC).

Briefing reporters in Moscow on 8 July, Drozhzhov said that the FSMTC is "processing" a request from New Delhi to procure 18 more of these fighters for the IAF in kit form for assembly in India.

The platforms will supplement the 13 squadrons totalling 272 Su-30MKIs that the IAF intends to operate by 2020-21, thus taking to 14 the number of squadrons with this fighter type.

Drozhzhov further stated that Russia has completed delivery of all components and sub-assemblies to India's state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to licence-build 222 Su-30MKIs agreed upon under various previous contracts from 2000 onwards.

Currently, the IAF operates about 250 Su-30MKIs, of which more than 200 have been licence-built.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/89763/ind ... rom-russia

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