WorldFlier
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:48 pm

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rj-448902/

Congrats to Beriev, Snecma, UAC, and firefighters across the world.

With Climate Change growing, I can see significant demand for this airplane that doesn't seem to have an analog anywhere in the world!

Image
 
An225
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:37 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:18 pm

Very interesting indeed, but after the initial happiness it looks like a pretty weired idea.
Based on the number of produced airframes (13), number of orders (2), and the fact that this aircraft fills a special nich only, we can determine that the financial viability of this program is very limited. Therefore, why would Safran get into such a shure-loss project of engineering and certification?

Can someone explain the logic of starting such a project?

Thanks,

Uzi
 
WorldFlier
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:36 pm

An225 wrote:
Very interesting indeed, but after the initial happiness it looks like a pretty weired idea.
Based on the number of produced airframes (13), number of orders (2), and the fact that this aircraft fills a special nich only, we can determine that the financial viability of this program is very limited. Therefore, why would Safran get into such a shure-loss project of engineering and certification?

Can someone explain the logic of starting such a project?

Thanks,

Uzi


I would imagine the majority of this will be for Russia's Emergency Ministry due to the increased funding and increased wildfires in Siberia where helicopters won't have the range or capacity to put out the very large fires, let alone the infrastructure of land based fire-fighting.

In terms of sure-loss for Safran, I think they have the least to lose. The Superjet engine (and it's derivatives, if they go on the SSJ-75) will have made probably close to 1,000 engines (if all SSJ-100 orders are filled) by the time the project is over. The loss will be borne by the Russian Government for R&D on the BE-200 frame since it is probably dated and needs a refresh/composites to reduce weight for more water capacity.

The cockpit looks nice though:

Image
 
trijetsonly
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:38 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:51 pm

Great to see updates on that remarkable aircraft!

But I think that the real reason behind that engine swap might be, that the current Ivchenko-Progress D-436 engines are Ukrainian engines and with the current relations between Russia and Ukraine they need to switch to something not-Ukrainian.
Happy Landings
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:08 pm

A variant with RR engines was previously looked into but shelved. My guess is, they are hoping for more sales with western engines. There's definitely a need for this aircraft.
 
Max Q
Posts: 6683
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:36 am

Cool and certainly one of the most interesting aircraft around

Anyone know what the two red levers just to the left of the throttles are ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Conniston
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:18 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:23 am

Max Q wrote:
Cool and certainly one of the most interesting aircraft around

Anyone know what the two red levers just to the left of the throttles are ?


Most likely the parking brakes. On this higher resolution photo of the panel, you can just make out the abbreviation "торм" (torm.), for "тормоза" (tormoza = brakes). There's something else written on the levers above that but it can't be seen clearly on this photo. Perhaps a Russian member familiar with the aircraft can confirm.

 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3019
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:15 am

Slug71 wrote:
A variant with RR engines was previously looked into but shelved. My guess is, they are hoping for more sales with western engines. There's definitely a need for this aircraft.

Market is not as big as you think for large firefighting tanker aircraft than you think.

Firefighting crews generally prefer smaller aircraft, especially in rougher terrain; they can take on water from smaller bodies of water, are more manueverable, and can drop closer to crews due to greater precision.

In fact, with some of the larger tankers, they can cause more harm than good; there was one story locally of an anonymous helicopter firefighter pilot that got so fed up with how people were obsessing over why the Martin Mars waterbomber wasn't taking part in the fire fighting effort last year in BC, that this message was posted on social media:

For everyone who is sharing and commenting on the Media article about the Martin Mars Please stop!!!

I am just one of hundreds flying on these fires and fighting them for a living. The reason why the Mars is not on the fires is because we have equipment that does a faster more efficient job from smaller lakes which can put more water on a fire per hour. Water doesn’t put out a fire the crews do.

Large aircraft such as what you have read about take crews off the fire lines, sit helicopters on the ground for hours and stop precious production and critical gains. Their water comes out at a force which sends embers out and start spot fires it loosens ground, blows over trees creating hazards and ruins guards put in by crews.

For everyone out there please get these ideas out of your heads and realize there is a reason why we don’t use these planes. As for the night ops, this is a great idea in California or in the desert where at night you have long string drops and easy terrain but in BC it doesn’t work that way. There are night crews working and they don’t need any more dangers.

Lastly it is an insult to all of us who are working 18 hours days with no food and no place to sleep while we try to save people’s houses and animals and you sit at home telling us what is best. There is so much more to it then just putting water on a fire otherwise don’t you think we would do just that!!

Please educate yourselves before posting about this topic and or sharing with others as it is not needed. Look at the photo, no plane can fly in that smoke and heat and no water will put out a kilometer wide, 200 foot wall of fire.
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1115
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:22 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
A variant with RR engines was previously looked into but shelved. My guess is, they are hoping for more sales with western engines. There's definitely a need for this aircraft.

Market is not as big as you think for large firefighting tanker aircraft than you think.

Firefighting crews generally prefer smaller aircraft, especially in rougher terrain; they can take on water from smaller bodies of water, are more manueverable, and can drop closer to crews due to greater precision.

In fact, with some of the larger tankers, they can cause more harm than good; there was one story locally of an anonymous helicopter firefighter pilot that got so fed up with how people were obsessing over why the Martin Mars waterbomber wasn't taking part in the fire fighting effort last year in BC, that this message was posted on social media:

For everyone who is sharing and commenting on the Media article about the Martin Mars Please stop!!!

I am just one of hundreds flying on these fires and fighting them for a living. The reason why the Mars is not on the fires is because we have equipment that does a faster more efficient job from smaller lakes which can put more water on a fire per hour. Water doesn’t put out a fire the crews do.

Large aircraft such as what you have read about take crews off the fire lines, sit helicopters on the ground for hours and stop precious production and critical gains. Their water comes out at a force which sends embers out and start spot fires it loosens ground, blows over trees creating hazards and ruins guards put in by crews.

For everyone out there please get these ideas out of your heads and realize there is a reason why we don’t use these planes. As for the night ops, this is a great idea in California or in the desert where at night you have long string drops and easy terrain but in BC it doesn’t work that way. There are night crews working and they don’t need any more dangers.

Lastly it is an insult to all of us who are working 18 hours days with no food and no place to sleep while we try to save people’s houses and animals and you sit at home telling us what is best. There is so much more to it then just putting water on a fire otherwise don’t you think we would do just that!!

Please educate yourselves before posting about this topic and or sharing with others as it is not needed. Look at the photo, no plane can fly in that smoke and heat and no water will put out a kilometer wide, 200 foot wall of fire.


I don't think there is big market for it, just that there is a need for it. Just about every year there is multiple massive fires on the West Coast of the US. At least for the last several years. Last year they brought out the 747 to help. Never mind all the other countries that deal with the same every year during the summers. It might not be ideal for BC, but it is for most other countries. The Be-200 is a fair bit smaller than the Martin Mars. It has roughly half the capacity/payload, and has half the wingspan. While not much, it is also a few meters shorter. But its much faster. There's only a 4.2m difference in the wingspan of the Be-200 and the more popular CL215/415 (over 200 aircraft sold). Again, the Be-200 is much faster with a much bigger payload. And it's use is not limited to firefighting.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6547
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: BE-200NEO - one of the most unique and capable planes gets Snecma's Superjet Engines!

Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:43 am

Lastly it is an insult to all of us who are working 18 hours days with no food and no place to sleep while we try to save people’s houses and animals and you sit at home telling us what is best.


I slightly dislike this kind of reverse argument.

It is the "because we are Heroes what we do must be good" falacy.
Even utmost sincerity and commitment does not make you infallible.
Murphy is an optimist

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos